Auto sales at 16 year low - sudden shift towards passenger cars hitting Detroit hard

[Heracles 417]

Thats odd because I check the mileage on my Honda Civic and I definitely got about 39 mpg while driving 80 to 85 mph cross country. I am sure it could have hit 40 if I had gone a little slower. In the city I am definitely getting over 30 mpg. Why do I need the horse power? I'm not racing anyone or hauling anything. Its not even a matter of what they "say". It is a matter of reality and these are the statistics for my personal Honda. It will vary on the driver and how well they take care of their car.

That is just not possible. Once a car goes over 55mph it starts to burn more fuel exponentially. A civic would be using at least 20% more fuel at 85mph to sustain the speed. Your civic would get better gas mileage than a prius at that speed.

Not true. My Neon gets 33mpg with me going consistently 75-85 while driving 110 miles a day to work (round trip miles), 5 days a week. I made sure to calculate this to see if my speeding was greatly affecting my mpg. It wasn't.

One thing that I love is I can speed my ### off and the mpg drop isn't bad at all unless you calculate it in yearly costs, which, driving 55-65mph, I'd save a decent amount of money (like several hundred per year), but it would take a lot longer to get to work, and it would piss a lot of people off going that slow.

Moving into the city, a car like a Prius is even more valuable, because they roast the ####### out of ICE vehicles in city mpg.

But alas, I'm waiting for something else, like an FCV/BEV to get a new car. Tesla has in the works a BEV Sedan at a reasonable price, Honda has the FCX Clarity coming out next year for lease. With good reviews, I'd put the money down to go either entirely or virtually oil free, plus cut the costs to drive in half for an FCV, and even further in a BEV.

I don't know how considering the neon had a 3 speed auto. They cut corners everywhere with that car. It had the worst crash rating for a small car. One of my neighbors daughters bought one. In three months she replaced both the engine and transmission. I actually enjoyed my 70's datsun better than her 2002 Neon. That car was a disaster for Chrysler there.

You have to drive the Prius for 5 years to get value out of it. On top of that unless you live in start / stop non-highway style of city, like NYC, you will not get much value out of it. Diesels from Europe get similar mileage. The Prius is basically a hyped up Corolla hybrid.

FCV are simply too expensive to build and not versatile enough to be practical. BEV vehicles are probably the way to go. FCX lease is going to be around $600 a month.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Aficionado

[S and S 12]

Thats odd because I check the mileage on my Honda Civic and I definitely got about 39 mpg while driving 80 to 85 mph cross country. I am sure it could have hit 40 if I had gone a little slower. In the city I am definitely getting over 30 mpg. Why do I need the horse power? I'm not racing anyone or hauling anything. Its not even a matter of what they "say". It is a matter of reality and these are the statistics for my personal Honda. It will vary on the driver and how well they take care of their car.

That is just not possible. Once a car goes over 55mph it starts to burn more fuel exponentially. A civic would be using at least 20% more fuel at 85mph to sustain the speed. Your civic would get better gas mileage than a prius at that speed.

I swear to God that is exactly what my car gets. I would not lie about that. I set the mileage counter to zero and took off. When I was reaching the end of the gas tank I filled up and figured out how many gallons I had used. Then I did the "math" to average how many miles I went to each gallon. It came out to 39. Don't believe me if you don't want to, but I know what my car gets and this is a fact. I will say at that time my car was new. I had only bought it about two months before so it was at its best at the time.

[IAMX 3,055]

I don't know how considering the neon had a 3 speed auto. They cut corners everywhere with that car. It had the worst crash rating for a small car. One of my neighbors daughters bought one. In three months she replaced both the engine and transmission. I actually enjoyed my 70's datsun better than her 2002 Neon. That car was a disaster for Chrysler there.

I have a 5 speed manual. Unless you're using a hybrid, autos are pretty lame, break much easier, require more maintenance, less friendly turns, etc.

You have to drive the Prius for 5 years to get value out of it. On top of that unless you live in start / stop non-highway style of city, like NYC, you will not get much value out of it. Diesels from Europe get similar mileage. The Prius is basically a hyped up Corolla hybrid.

You'll get your money back faster out of a Prius than you would buying other new cars, especially ICE vehicles of the same type. This can be said of large commute times like myself, but particularly anyone who lives in an urban area and even stop-and-go traffic. Additionally, when the Prius stops, the engine turns off. It does not in ICE vehicles, having them continuously running. Obviously, when the engine isn't running, it's saving gas.

FCV are simply too expensive to build and not versatile enough to be practical. BEV vehicles are probably the way to go. FCX lease is going to be around $600 a month.

You don't know what the cost will be when it actually goes retail to the dealerships to be sold.

There are no BEV's that would be that cheap at the moment, because at $90,000+ MSRP, the Roadster would be a helluva lot more to lease.

Furthermore, security companies are moving to hybrids as well, particularly the Prius and the Escape, because of their superior inner city mileage. Prominent companies like Google use these vehicles as well for their security.

[Heracles 417]

I have a 5 speed manual. Unless you're using a hybrid, autos are pretty lame, break much easier, require more maintenance, less friendly turns, etc.

That reminds me of Europe where everyone has a manual.

You'll get your money back faster out of a Prius than you would buying other new cars, especially ICE vehicles of the same type. This can be said of large commute times like myself, but particularly anyone who lives in an urban area and even stop-and-go traffic. Additionally, when the Prius stops, the engine turns off. It does not in ICE vehicles, having them continuously running. Obviously, when the engine isn't running, it's saving gas.

The other thing you have to factor in that equation is will a prius last. The car was not exactly built for long distance driving.

[Amby 490]

I recently bought a new car and my car doesn't get awesome mileage but I don't drive that much either. I took it on a 1200 mile (combined) road trip last week and I didn't spend as much on gas as I anticipated. I have a Pontiac G8 GT.

[Heracles 417]

My friend worked on that car. The design that is..

That car has some serious power, if you bought the V8 version.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Aficionado

[Amby 490]

My friend worked on that car.

That car has some serious power, if you bought the V8 version.

I have the V8 version. It's so fun to drive. It kinda turns me on

[IAMX 3,055]

The other thing you have to factor in that equation is will a prius last. The car was not exactly built for long distance driving.

Complete FUD. The Prius was indeed built for long distance driving, as well as short distance.

Many people actually use their Prius here to drive up to the mountain areas (Sierras) to go skiing and vacation. Plenty of space in the back to store one's stuff. Plus, as mentioned, agencies that rely on constant driving would not get a Prius, or an Escape, if it was not meant to be driving.

The Prius is a perfect mid-size family vehicle perfect for going on trips, especially because it beats the ####### out of just about every other car in mileage and especially need for maintenance.

[Heracles 417]

The other thing you have to factor in that equation is will a prius last. The car was not exactly built for long distance driving.

Complete FUD. The Prius was indeed built for long distance driving, as well as short distance.

Many people actually use their Prius here to drive up to the mountain areas (Sierras) to go skiing and vacation. Plenty of space in the back to store one's stuff. Plus, as mentioned, agencies that rely on constant driving would not get a Prius, or an Escape, if it was not meant to be driving.

The Prius is a perfect mid-size family vehicle perfect for going on trips, especially because it beats the ####### out of just about every other car in mileage and especially need for maintenance.

I don't know about the durability and reliability. Plus I can only imagine what it costs to service the hybrid system if it brakes down.

All studies have shown that you have to own a Prius for 5 years for it to pay off. The hybrid systems are also quite useless on the highways. My Fiat Punto in Greece actually gets better MPG with a diesel.

Now the next plug in generation will be a different story. By 2010 there is going to be quite a few hybrids and plug in hybrids on the market.

[IAMX 3,055]

The other thing you have to factor in that equation is will a prius last. The car was not exactly built for long distance driving.

Complete FUD. The Prius was indeed built for long distance driving, as well as short distance.

Many people actually use their Prius here to drive up to the mountain areas (Sierras) to go skiing and vacation. Plenty of space in the back to store one's stuff. Plus, as mentioned, agencies that rely on constant driving would not get a Prius, or an Escape, if it was not meant to be driving.

The Prius is a perfect mid-size family vehicle perfect for going on trips, especially because it beats the ####### out of just about every other car in mileage and especially need for maintenance.

I don't know about the durability and reliability. Plus I can only imagine what it costs to service the hybrid system if it brakes down.

All studies have shown that you have to own a Prius for 5 years for it to pay off. The hybrid systems are also quite useless on the highways. My Fiat Punto in Greece actually gets better MPG with a diesel.

Now the next plug in generation will be a different story. By 2010 there is going to be quite a few hybrids and plug in hybrids on the market.

Lets just say there are thousands of Google employees in Mountain View who I've worked with who have tested out the Prius' durability, as well as professors of mine at SJSU who commute much farther than I do. If it really wasn't made to be driving often or far, reports would be surfacing left and right about how bad the Prius is, and sales would plummet, and the Prius wouldn't have even been into it's 3rd generation vehicle by now. Hence, why the criticism you pose is FUD. Well, except the "pay off". However, at some point a new car is a good idea, so the money will be forked over regardless. Any new car is going to have a certain lifetime to pay off, and hybrids are in another league compared to regular ICE. 45-55mpg on a 10 gallon tank means 450-550 miles per tank. Even driving as fast as I do in my Neon, getting 33mpg, thats only 330 miles per tank, and I have 10 gallons as well.

So the more one drives their Prius, as intended, the faster it will pay itself off when compared to ICE vehicles.

[SMOKE 1,426]

I recently bought a new car and my car doesn't get awesome mileage but I don't drive that much either. I took it on a 1200 mile (combined) road trip last week and I didn't spend as much on gas as I anticipated. I have a Pontiac G8 GT.

that is a good stong vehicle. i resently worked on one. i was very impressed w/ the amount of reinforcement to the passenger area of the vehicle....good call amber

[Heracles 417]

Lets just say there are thousands of Google employees in Mountain View who I've worked with who have tested out the Prius' durability, as well as professors of mine at SJSU who commute much farther than I do. If it really wasn't made to be driving often or far, reports would be surfacing left and right about how bad the Prius is, and sales would plummet, and the Prius wouldn't have even been into it's 3rd generation vehicle by now. Hence, why the criticism you pose is FUD. Well, except the "pay off". However, at some point a new car is a good idea, so the money will be forked over regardless. Any new car is going to have a certain lifetime to pay off, and hybrids are in another league compared to regular ICE. 45-55mpg on a 10 gallon tank means 450-550 miles per tank. Even driving as fast as I do in my Neon, getting 33mpg, thats only 330 miles per tank, and I have 10 gallons as well.

So the more one drives their Prius, as intended, the faster it will pay itself off when compared to ICE vehicles.

The Prius's has become a bit of a fashion statement in the US. Especially in California. While I have not looked at every country, the Prius is not selling anywhere near as well overseas as it is here. $4 to $6 a gallon gas is nothing new in Europe. They have ultra efficient diesels there. My Fiat Punto in Greece gets up to 80MPG. Yes using a ICE. Combined 62mpg. What does the Prius hybrid get again? 46 mpg combined

First of all the hybrid systems are most beneficial in start / stop traffic. Second of all look at what you are getting in a Prius. Fuel economy and that is just about it. My Audi A6 shits all over that car. It is not only about MPG. If it was people would be driving 75 HP Fiats in America.The Prius is just a fad that anyone without a clue will jump on. If MPG conscious consumers had a clue they would demand cars be shipped here from Europe.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Aficionado

[Heracles 417]

I recently bought a new car and my car doesn't get awesome mileage but I don't drive that much either. I took it on a 1200 mile (combined) road trip last week and I didn't spend as much on gas as I anticipated. I have a Pontiac G8 GT.

that is a good stong vehicle. i resently worked on one. i was very impressed w/ the amount of reinforcement to the passenger area of the vehicle....good call amber

Don't tell me someone crashed one already..

[IAMX 3,055]

Lets just say there are thousands of Google employees in Mountain View who I've worked with who have tested out the Prius' durability, as well as professors of mine at SJSU who commute much farther than I do. If it really wasn't made to be driving often or far, reports would be surfacing left and right about how bad the Prius is, and sales would plummet, and the Prius wouldn't have even been into it's 3rd generation vehicle by now. Hence, why the criticism you pose is FUD. Well, except the "pay off". However, at some point a new car is a good idea, so the money will be forked over regardless. Any new car is going to have a certain lifetime to pay off, and hybrids are in another league compared to regular ICE. 45-55mpg on a 10 gallon tank means 450-550 miles per tank. Even driving as fast as I do in my Neon, getting 33mpg, thats only 330 miles per tank, and I have 10 gallons as well.

So the more one drives their Prius, as intended, the faster it will pay itself off when compared to ICE vehicles.

The Prius's has become a bit of a fashion statement in the US. Especially in California. While I have not looked at every country, the Prius is not selling anywhere near as well overseas as it is here. $4 to $6 a gallon gas is nothing new in Europe. They have ultra efficient diesels there. My Fiat Punto in Greece gets up to 80MPG. Yes using a ICE. Combined 62mpg. What does the Prius hybrid get again? 46 mpg combined

First all all the hybrid systems are most beneficial in start / stop traffic. Second of all look at what you are getting in a Prius. Fuel economy and that is just about it. My Audi A6 shits all over that car. It is not only about MPG. If it was people would be driving 75 HP Fiats in America.The Prius is just a fad that anyone without a clue will jump on. If MPG conscious consumers had a clue they would demand cars be shipped here from Europe.

You're working under the assumption that everyone needs a 300+HP car, which they do not. As driving is not a race, or a ####### measuring competition, but merely getting from Destination A to B, the most efficient way to get there is most logical. Also, a Geo Metro gets decent mileage too, comparable to a diesel VW Golf, also small as hell. Like your Fiat, they are smaller than ####. The Prius is a family vehicle made for good ol' large America, so of course it isn't selling greatly everywhere, because the world does not have exactly the same demands. Your Fiat-to-Prius comparison is like comparing the mileage of a Datsun to the mileage of a U-Haul.

And the Prius isn't a fashion statement. It's as much a fashion statement as a Scion xB is, which is to say, you need to like everything else but the looks.

Edited August 4, 2008 by SRVT

[mendeleev 69]

The problem with European diesels, some of which are great passenger cars, is that they cannot meet US emissions standards, in particular our standard for NOx emissions. The technology to have a passenger diesel meet the US NOx standard for cars, particularly in the lower bins, simply doesn't exist yet.