(Not) Keeping Up with Our Parents: Just Being Middle Class Is Becoming out of Reach

[Heracles 417]

f it were so then American politicians would have done something about it like yesterday, given the political pull of American families vs illegal families. Like, having these industries actually obey labor laws instead of hiring cheap labor.

So stop drooling over Obama and actually ask what he, as a senator, has done to reverse this. What measures has the Democrat controlled congress and house proposed to stop the "illegal" hiring cheap labor?

All those lawyers and most likely so, their constituencies probably just don't give as much of a damn about such an apparently sucking effect on the economy you're supporting- they're looking at a much larger leech, aka The Vaccuum Cleaner, in office until January 2009.

Of course. George Bush is to blame. I think you need to read up on the United States three levels of government. But I am sure once your buddy is in office then the rules and your tone will change.

Now that I am in Melbourne and see where the city is at when compared to places like Chicago; Boy have you guys got your priorities wrong.

No one with half a brain would sit here and honestly ignore the affect of 20,000,000 people, here illegally, yet turn around and blame GWB for everything. Nobody can be that stupid..

[Heracles 417]

...and because I lived some of this I remember stuff you don't....

In the 50's and 60's (the generation that's the subject of the article) core America was whining about the black man taking jobs from whites....

Before that they were whining over the Irish, Italians and Germans....

Before that the Chinese....

When you kvetch about the current wave of immigrants (illegal or otherwise) all you do is fall into a stereotype so old you don't even recognize yourself....

The Poor White Man.

Why do you pretend legal and illegal immigrants are the same thing?

I know for anyone I speak to here in Australia this is the best decade ever. So is it wrong to compare the two nations to see what one is doing different to the other; and God forbid learn from someone outside America. As I have said many times before why not also include the top 20 nations with the highest living standards in the world. You will notice that they all have very strict immigration policies. You guys seem to deny that.

Yes minimum wage is low here but changing it is useless when a business can still hire someone, off the books, for under $6 an hour; as well as inhumane the for illegal immigrant being exploited.

Yes health care is expensive. A UHS will simply not work considering the number of people living in poverty as well as the 20,000,000+ illegal immigrants who would be eligible for free access as well. The country would be more bankrupt than it already is.

Illegal immigration was not an issue in the 50's and 60's. So of course people had it better back then. Supply and Demand 101. The market has had to adjust to cater for the 20,000,000 low skilled illegal immigrants. Therefore this has suppressed wages. Which causes more people to go to uni. Therefore in the long term will also suppress their wages.

Then again it is already happening with wall street losing over 200,000 jobs. Which means 200,000 excess white collar job seekers in NYC alone. Bye bye wages Troll.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Heracles 417]

I was thinking rebeccajo about some of the things you guys say. My cousin here who just scored a job as an electrician on a mining site outside Perth will be working for a wage of $240,000 USD (thanks to the US dollar falling further today). Have many BA and MA white collar workers are there in Manhattan earning that much Troll? Did I mention he dropped out of school at 16. Therefore also has no college debt.

This is what you call supply and demand. This is the positive consequence of a controlled immigration policy. Of controlling the supply of labor to increase the living standards for all there. Hell I know if Gary and Luz alone came here they would be on $180,000 combined doing the work they do. So this ####### about blue collar workers does not fly.

My uncle, who is over 60, works as a cleaner on a construction site and he is earning $80K AUD. As a freakin cleaner!!

Edited May 21, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[rebeccajo 14]

...and because I lived some of this I remember stuff you don't....

In the 50's and 60's (the generation that's the subject of the article) core America was whining about the black man taking jobs from whites....

Before that they were whining over the Irish, Italians and Germans....

Before that the Chinese....

When you kvetch about the current wave of immigrants (illegal or otherwise) all you do is fall into a stereotype so old you don't even recognize yourself....

The Poor White Man.

Why do you pretend legal and illegal immigrants are the same thing?

I know for anyone I speak to here in Australia this is the best decade ever. So is it wrong to compare the two nations to see what one is doing different to the other; and God forbid learn from someone outside America. As I have said many times before why not also include the top 20 nations with the highest living standards in the world. You will notice that they all have very strict immigration policies. You guys seem to deny that.

Yes minimum wage is low here but changing it is useless when a business can still hire someone, off the books, for under $6 an hour; as well as inhumane the for illegal immigrant being exploited.

Yes health care is expensive. A UHS will simply not work considering the number of people living in poverty as well as the 20,000,000+ illegal immigrants who would be eligible for free access as well. The country would be more bankrupt than it already is.

Illegal immigration was not an issue in the 50's and 60's. So of course people had it better back then. Supply and Demand 101. The market has had to adjust to cater for the 20,000,000 low skilled illegal immigrants. Therefore this has suppressed wages. Which causes more people to go to uni. Therefore in the long term will also suppress their wages.

Then again it is already happening with wall street losing over 200,000 jobs. Which means 200,000 excess white collar job seekers in NYC alone. Bye bye wages Troll.

I don't consider inspected entrants and uninspected entrants as the 'same thing'. Although typically you will find that ANY foreign born person will have to take a lower paying job to get themselves started in the US. The anecdotal evidence is here on VJ aplenty to prove that.

You're also speaking to the wrong individual if you want to peg me as someone who is unwilling to listen or learn from 'someone outside the US'. I've been fascinated by the history of the world and other cultures since my childhood. As such I'm aware that the Australian government hardly holds an isolationist perspective when it comes to foreign born entrants. Has that 'open arms' policy contributed to what you now call the 'best decade ever'? I cannot say one way or the other regarding that, but I can tell you that every nation enjoys times of prosperity and times of decline. US history shows three of those properous periods as the Industrial Revolution, the 20's and more recently the 90's.

The state of the economy in the US isn't unaffected by migrants to this country, but it isn't the major contributing factor by any stretch of the imagination. A culture that has devalued both the agricultural and blue collar worker has contributed; a government that structures its Federal tax code to discourage domestic growth and States unable or unwilling to offer enough tax breaks to compensate have contributed; the greed and lemming-like mentality of Wall Street and US Bankers has contributed; a healthcare system operating as privatized, for-profit, unchecked and unquestioned has contributed; and a war waged in the name of self protection now sucking the resources out of our military, killing our young people, and tarnishing the name of the US around the globe has contributed. All of which sinks the dollar.

Edited May 21, 2008 by rebeccajo

[Fandango 1,440]

I think you're getting confused about the topic. We are talking about how it is increasingly more difficult to have the lifestyle our parents had.

....

Our parents didn't have these worries. That's the topic at hand.

But have you acknowledged part of the cause. It is simple really. For every job an illegal immigrant takes, that is one less job for an American.

10,000,000 illegal immigrants working = 10,000,000 less jobs for Americans.

For those 10,000,000 Americans that means that not only do they suffer but their families suffer as well. So 20,000,000 Americans are now living in poverty because of not working. These 20,000,000 are not spending. Therefore not contributing to the economy and are probably on welfare. Which means they are actually draining the countries wealth.

On top of that illegal immigrants send about $24,000,000,000 abroad every year. If this alone was spent in America it would create thousand and thousand of jobs.

This is definitely affecting the living standard of every single middle class and poor American.

...and because I lived some of this I remember stuff you don't....

In the 50's and 60's (the generation that's the subject of the article) core America was whining about the black man taking jobs from whites....

Before that they were whining over the Irish, Italians and Germans....

Before that the Chinese....

When you kvetch about the current wave of immigrants (illegal or otherwise) all you do is fall into a stereotype so old you don't even recognize yourself....

The Poor White Man.

I don't think BY is singling out the 'poor white man' rather 'poor Americans'. At least that's my take.

And I happen to think today's standard of living is BETTER in many areas....look at all the fancy cars on the road, the big azzed houses for 'starter' homes...look at people's lifestyles with the phones and ipods and gps systems, satellite tv with 1000 channs, plasma TVs, etc. Of course it's a massive generalization, but back in the day, all the man did was work, the wife tended the home, and they lived within their means, which many a time was modest. There are many nowadays who live completely beyond their means, which has a lot to do with comparing the two....

Edited May 21, 2008 by Happy Bunny

[HAL 9000 96]

f it were so then American politicians would have done something about it like yesterday, given the political pull of American families vs illegal families. Like, having these industries actually obey labor laws instead of hiring cheap labor.

So stop drooling over Obama and actually ask what he, as a senator, has done to reverse this. What measures has the Democrat controlled congress and house proposed to stop the "illegal" hiring cheap labor?

All those lawyers and most likely so, their constituencies probably just don't give as much of a damn about such an apparently sucking effect on the economy you're supporting- they're looking at a much larger leech, aka The Vaccuum Cleaner, in office until January 2009.

Of course. George Bush is to blame. I think you need to read up on the United States three levels of government. But I am sure once your buddy is in office then the rules and your tone will change.

Now that I am in Melbourne and see where the city is at when compared to places like Chicago; Boy have you guys got your priorities wrong.

No one with half a brain would sit here and honestly ignore the affect of 20,000,000 people, here illegally, yet turn around and blame GWB for everything. Nobody can be that stupid..

I guess you answered your own tangent with your own logic.

[Fandango 1,440]

Oh, I forgot to add: making 75k a year and not being able to buy groceries seems like a very severe budgeting problem....

[HAL 9000 96]

...and because I lived some of this I remember stuff you don't....

In the 50's and 60's (the generation that's the subject of the article) core America was whining about the black man taking jobs from whites....

Before that they were whining over the Irish, Italians and Germans....

Before that the Chinese....

When you kvetch about the current wave of immigrants (illegal or otherwise) all you do is fall into a stereotype so old you don't even recognize yourself....

The Poor White Man.

Why do you pretend legal and illegal immigrants are the same thing?

I know for anyone I speak to here in Australia this is the best decade ever. So is it wrong to compare the two nations to see what one is doing different to the other; and God forbid learn from someone outside America. As I have said many times before why not also include the top 20 nations with the highest living standards in the world. You will notice that they all have very strict immigration policies. You guys seem to deny that.

Yes minimum wage is low here but changing it is useless when a business can still hire someone, off the books, for under $6 an hour; as well as inhumane the for illegal immigrant being exploited.

Yes health care is expensive. A UHS will simply not work considering the number of people living in poverty as well as the 20,000,000+ illegal immigrants who would be eligible for free access as well. The country would be more bankrupt than it already is.

Illegal immigration was not an issue in the 50's and 60's. So of course people had it better back then. Supply and Demand 101. The market has had to adjust to cater for the 20,000,000 low skilled illegal immigrants. Therefore this has suppressed wages. Which causes more people to go to uni. Therefore in the long term will also suppress their wages.

Then again it is already happening with wall street losing over 200,000 jobs. Which means 200,000 excess white collar job seekers in NYC alone. Bye bye wages Troll.

I don't consider inspected entrants and uninspected entrants as the 'same thing'. Although typically you will find that ANY foreign born person will have to take a lower paying job to get themselves started in the US. The anecdotal evidence is here on VJ aplenty to prove that.

You're also speaking to the wrong individual if you want to peg me as someone who is unwilling to listen or learn from 'someone outside the US'. I've been fascinated by the history of the world and other cultures since my childhood. As such I'm aware that the Australian government hardly holds an isolationist perspective when it comes to foreign born entrants. Has that 'open arms' policy contributed to what you now call the 'best decade ever'? I cannot say one way or the other regarding that, but I can tell you that every nation enjoys times of prosperity and times of decline. US history shows three of those properous periods as the Industrial Revolution, the 20's and more recently the 90's.

The state of the economy in the US isn't unaffected by migrants to this country, but it isn't the major contributing factor by any stretch of the imagination. A culture that has devalued both the agricultural and blue collar worker has contributed; a government that structures its Federal tax code to discourage domestic growth and States unable or unwilling to offer enough tax breaks to compensate have contributed; the greed and lemming-like mentality of Wall Street and US Bankers has contributed; a healthcare system operating as privatized, for-profit, unchecked and unquestioned has contributed; and a war waged in the name of self protection now sucking the resources out of our military, killing our young people, and tarnishing the name of the US around the globe has contributed. All of which sinks the dollar.

And many of us have lived in more than one country- making a world view as well as having particular knowledge of how power structures vary from country to country, but all within the same framework of a top-down system that tends to benefit the ruling class a heck of a lot more reasonable than griping about life from the confines of a family immigration website. Out of context, no doubt.

Thanks RJ for echoing the reality that many refuse to include in their thinking.

[Heracles 417]

I guess you answered your own tangent with your own logic.

Your stereotyping is getting old. I think you talk ####### 99.9999% of the time but I don't sit here and respond to your every post by ridiculing it.

PS I have seen your so-called world experience throughout these threads. Sounds about the same 'world experience' as your boyfriend Che Obama..

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

BY - what is it you have against Obama?

Why are you constantly dragging him through the mud over things like illegal immigration when none of the major party candidates are taking a hardline stand on illegal immigration enforcement?

Hillary isn't

McCain isn't

Yet Obama is apparently to blame

[Heracles 417]

BY - what is it you have against Obama?

Why are you constantly dragging him through the mud over things like illegal immigration when none of the major party candidates are taking a hardline stand on illegal immigration enforcement?

Hillary isn't

McCain isn't

Yet Obama is apparently to blame

Obama is pretty much the democrat nominee so I am asking the question. Asking about his stance.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

BY - what is it you have against Obama?

Why are you constantly dragging him through the mud over things like illegal immigration when none of the major party candidates are taking a hardline stand on illegal immigration enforcement?

Hillary isn't

McCain isn't

Yet Obama is apparently to blame

Obama is pretty much the democrat nominee so I am asking the question. Asking about his stance.

From what I've read his stance isn't substantially different from John McCain's. In short - none of the major parties are making draconian enforcement of illegal immigration a campaign priority.

So it seems unlikely that the issue will factor very heavily in determining who's going to win the presidency.

[Ban Hammer 14,668]

Obama is pretty much the democrat nominee so I am asking the question. Asking about his stance.

wide.

[HAL 9000 96]

I guess you answered your own tangent with your own logic.

Your stereotyping is getting old. I think you talk ####### 99.9999% of the time but I don't sit here and respond to your every post by ridiculing it.

PS I have seen your so-called world experience throughout these threads. Sounds about the same 'world experience' as your boyfriend Che Obama..

Yeah... that's why I get suspended from this site every how often? Oh, sorry, that was you and your melodrama.

And really, get over the Obama. If you don't like him (or any of America's problems that are so significantly to blame on illegal aliens) you can always stay in Melbourne and do yourself a favor. Live longer with lower blood pressure.

BY - what is it you have against Obama?

Why are you constantly dragging him through the mud over things like illegal immigration when none of the major party candidates are taking a hardline stand on illegal immigration enforcement?

Hillary isn't

McCain isn't

Yet Obama is apparently to blame

Obama is pretty much the democrat nominee so I am asking the question. Asking about his stance.

From what I've read his stance isn't substantially different from John McCain's. In short - none of the major parties are making draconian enforcement of illegal immigration a campaign priority.

So it seems unlikely that the issue will factor very heavily in determining who's going to win the presidency.

Which also means the blame, under BY's logic, needs to get spread widely just like the love that abounds quite generously around here.