Ineligibility based on membership in the Communist Party

[duyen&sean 0]

My fiancee is from Vietnam and is a member of the communist party, but so is everyone who graduates from high school there, and it's sort of a prerequisite for "normal" life in the country. (Maybe this is like China too, since both are one-party states.) On the form DS-230, Part II, Question 30© makes it very clear that anyone having such a designation is ineligible for a visa to the US.

So how do we respond to question 30 part c? Certainly others from Vietnam and China have had to do this, so it can't be a big deal. I'm aware of a exemption clause for which everyone in ours and similar cases would clearly qualify, but my question is how to approach the question in the context of this form. Do we check "YES" and state the corresponding exemption on a separate sheet? It seems like saying "NO" would be... lying... so I'm thinking that's not the right choice...

What have peoples' experiences been?

Here is the relevant law, taken from this State Department website:

(D) Immigrant membership in totalitarian party.-

(i) In general.-Any immigrant who is or has been a member of or affiliated with the Communist or any other totalitarian party (or subdivision or affiliate thereof), domestic or foreign, is inadmissible.

(ii) Exception for involuntary membership.- Clause (i) shall not apply to an alien because of membership or affiliation if the alien establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer when applying for a visa (or to the satisfaction of the Attorney General when applying for admission) that the membership or affiliation is or was involuntary, or is or was solely when under 16 years of age, by operation of law, or for purposes of obtaining employment, food rations, or other essentials of living and whether necessary for such purposes.

(iii) Exception for past membership.-Clause (i) shall not apply to an alien because of membership or affiliation if the alien establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer when applying for a visa (or to the satisfaction of the Attorney General when applying for admission) that-

(I) the membership or affiliation terminated at least-

(a) 2 years before the date of such application, or

(b) 5 years before the date of such application, in the case of an alien whose membership or affiliation was with the party controlling the government of a foreign state that is a totalitarian dictatorship as of such date, and

(II) the alien is not a threat to the security of the United States.

(iv) Exception for close family members.-The Attorney General may, in the Attorney General's discretion, waive the application of clause (i) in the case of an immigrant who is the parent, spouse, son, daughter, brother, or sister of a citizen of the United States or a spouse, son, or daughter of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence for humanitarian purposes, to assure family unity, or when it is otherwise in the public interest if the immigrant is not a threat to the security of the United States.

[pushbrk 12,286]

Answer the question honestly. Never lie to an immigration official or on an immigration form.

If she qualifies for the exemption, she'll eventually get the visa. She should be ready to explain and if possible, document that her party membership was involuntary.

Caution though. The fact there is only one policital party does not in and of itself meet the standard. China has one political party as well and my wife's father is a member but neither she or her siblings ever were, even though she and her brother worked for State owned entities.

People with direct Viet Nam experience will know more about the circumstances there.

[duyen&sean 0]

Answer the question honestly. Never lie to an immigration official or on an immigration form.

If she qualifies for the exemption, she'll eventually get the visa. She should be ready to explain and if possible, document that her party membership was involuntary.

Caution though. The fact there is only one policital party does not in and of itself meet the standard. China has one political party as well and my wife's father is a member but neither she or her siblings ever were, even though she and her brother worked for State owned entities.

People with direct Viet Nam experience will know more about the circumstances there.

Of course the lying part was a joke. You know what? I'm not even sure if she is an actual "member" of the party--it seems there are like three echelons to the whole thing. From the sound of it, it's pretty hard to become a top-echelon member of the party in Vietnam--only 3% are "members" of this kind, but I know there are ranks and degrees of membership, and I know she's not part of that top 3%. (Is that what the consulate considers membership, or does "Communist Youth League for Six Year Olds" count?) I just know that you have to have some sort of (possibly lower-echelon) membership or affiliation in order to graduate from college, and she is a college graduate, so... I'll ask the precise details tonight. If she is not a "member" or "representative" (the terms from the form), then it seems we're clear.

I think I may just call the consulate tonight and ask them directly. I'll talk in a deep, scruffy voice and disguise my name... hah.

[CraigCam 0]

I'm interested to know the answer to this question. I hadn't thought about it because I'm not that far along in the process, but my fiancee is also a college graduate. I can't ask her now because of the time change, but I will ask her in a couple of hours. If you don't get any quick responses, try posting this in the Asia East Pacific thread, more VN filers hang out there. Good luck.

[pushbrk 12,286]

Answer the question honestly. Never lie to an immigration official or on an immigration form.

If she qualifies for the exemption, she'll eventually get the visa. She should be ready to explain and if possible, document that her party membership was involuntary.

Caution though. The fact there is only one policital party does not in and of itself meet the standard. China has one political party as well and my wife's father is a member but neither she or her siblings ever were, even though she and her brother worked for State owned entities.

People with direct Viet Nam experience will know more about the circumstances there.

Of course the lying part was a joke. You know what? I'm not even sure if she is an actual "member" of the party--it seems there are like three echelons to the whole thing. From the sound of it, it's pretty hard to become a top-echelon member of the party in Vietnam--only 3% are "members" of this kind, but I know there are ranks and degrees of membership, and I know she's not part of that top 3%. (Is that what the consulate considers membership, or does "Communist Youth League for Six Year Olds" count?) I just know that you have to have some sort of (possibly lower-echelon) membership or affiliation in order to graduate from college, and she is a college graduate, so... I'll ask the precise details tonight. If she is not a "member" or "representative" (the terms from the form), then it seems we're clear.

I think I may just call the consulate tonight and ask them directly. I'll talk in a deep, scruffy voice and disguise my name... hah.

Right, you can't tell the truth until you know the truth.

[duyen&sean 0]

Right, you can't tell the truth until you know the truth.

Hey, great, I just called and she said that she's never been involved with the Communist Party--not a member, never did the stuff in high school or college, etc. What luck! (Of course, she tells me it's pretty big stuff to be a member in the Communist Party--people try for decades to be in, but they can't. Well, she never was.) Of course, that doesn't help others who have been or are currently involved. I still want to hear the answer to this one...

[pushbrk 12,286]

Right, you can't tell the truth until you know the truth.

Hey, great, I just called and she said that she's never been involved with the Communist Party--not a member, never did the stuff in high school or college, etc. What luck! (Of course, she tells me it's pretty big stuff to be a member in the Communist Party--people try for decades to be in, but they can't. Well, she never was.) Of course, that doesn't help others who have been or are currently involved. I still want to hear the answer to this one...

Well the answer to that one is quite different because obviously, their membership was intentional. Some will never get a visa to immigrate to the US. My father in-law, retired years ago as a General in the Peoples Army may still not be able to get a visa. Consular officers are quite well versed in the ins and outs of party membership in the countries where they serve.