Obama's Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A better question would surely be - whether the man himself has given any indication, through what he has said publicly or indeed where he stands on key issues - that he supports extremist views (if indeed the content of the pastor's statements amounts to "extremism").

but he surely he has shown he condones it by choosing to continue to attend that church!

Only if you believe in guilt by association.

He has said he doesn't agree with some of the stuff the pastor has said, characterising his exact relationship with the guy. Is that not enough?

I'd also contend to you that that many churches (especially megachurches) make use of similar oratorical styles on the part of their ministers.

On another point - I'm not overly happy that he's a member of (any) church - but then again, no candidate is going to make broad claims to secularism.

I stand by my above statement. There are plenty of other churches he could attend if he doesn't want it to reflect poorly on him or better yet, if he does in fact, disagree. This guy continually spouts #######, since 2001 as far as we know - I'm sure there's earlier ####### out there but I can't be bothered to look for more of his #######.

It is what it is. I hope it helps reveal more about Obama.

It is what it is indeed - but again the man's public addresses and policy positions say more about him than his association with this guy.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Obama addresses Pa.'s importance, pastor's remarks

[rebeccajo 14]

Religious leaders use the pulpit ALL THE TIME to speak about political issues. Abortion; prayer in schools; public education; 'sin' taxes on drink and cigarettes; zoning - you name it, they talk about it - especially local politics, where their comments and idealogy can actually be more influential.

As if racism and gender weren't enough in this contest, now we have to throw religion into the mix. Reminds of Kennedy and how some folks were afraid if he were elected the Pope would be running the country. Now we're skeered of the minister........

[garya505 2]

I have to wonder why Obama didn't distance himself from this guy a long time ago.

I don't understand this concept. Do we only associate ourselves with people who think exactly like us? Obviously, they both share a love for God. I've been a member of Parish where the priest's homilies would make some people get up and walk out. My father, who is a deacon has preached, and after Mass, had people come up to him and tell him they liked what he said as well as some who told him they didn't like it at all. Anyone who's listened to a preacher knows that many times they'll say things that make the congression go, 'huh?'

The pastor has political views that make him a liability to Obama.

So maybe he should be 'taken out?'

My best friend is conservative and has Republican party political aspirations. Does that make me a liability to him? OR vice versa? We don't seem to think so.

People will ask, why would Obama have this guy as a pastor for 20 years if he doesn't agree with him on politics. I mean, would anyone choose to listen to a religious figure who they disagreed with for that long? There must be plenty of other pastors who Obama agrees with on religion, yet he chose this one. People are going to be wondering about that.

[HAL 9000 96]

I have to wonder why Obama didn't distance himself from this guy a long time ago.

I don't understand this concept. Do we only associate ourselves with people who think exactly like us? Obviously, they both share a love for God. I've been a member of Parish where the priest's homilies would make some people get up and walk out. My father, who is a deacon has preached, and after Mass, had people come up to him and tell him they liked what he said as well as some who told him they didn't like it at all. Anyone who's listened to a preacher knows that many times they'll say things that make the congression go, 'huh?'

The pastor has political views that make him a liability to Obama.

So maybe he should be 'taken out?'

My best friend is conservative and has Republican party political aspirations. Does that make me a liability to him? OR vice versa? We don't seem to think so.

People will ask, why would Obama have this guy as a pastor for 20 years if he doesn't agree with him on politics. I mean, would anyone choose to listen to a religious figure who they disagreed with for that long? There must be plenty of other pastors who Obama agrees with on religion, yet he chose this one. People are going to be wondering about that.

Maybe you could dig up a second comment that makes this pastor such a radical cleric and then tie it in to what relevance, if any, it has to do with this election. Wonder about all the fuss being made over one comment made in 2003 to a congregation that, to my knowledge, did not include Obama in audience. Conservative fanatics are always looking to tear down any liberal politician and its a matter of comedy that it took 5 years for these comments to 'surface' at this point, regardless of whom brought them out, and once again, in no way connected to what Obama has said he supports. In fact, look at the last couple of posts here.

[Caladan 19]

A better question would surely be - whether the man himself has given any indication, through what he has said publicly or indeed where he stands on key issues - that he supports extremist views (if indeed the content of the pastor's statements amounts to "extremism").

but he surely he has shown he condones it by choosing to continue to attend that church!

Only if you believe in guilt by association.

He has said he doesn't agree with some of the stuff the pastor has said, characterising his exact relationship with the guy. Is that not enough?

I'd also contend to you that that many churches (especially megachurches) make use of similar oratorical styles on the part of their ministers.

On another point - I'm not overly happy that he's a member of (any) church - but then again, no candidate is going to make broad claims to secularism.

I stand by my above statement. There are plenty of other churches he could attend if he doesn't want it to reflect poorly on him or better yet, if he does in fact, disagree. This guy continually spouts #######, since 2001 as far as we know - I'm sure there's earlier ####### out there but I can't be bothered to look for more of his #######.

It is what it is. I hope it helps reveal more about Obama.

I remember when GWb visited Bob Jones University which at that time prohibits inter-racial dating, that caused quite a ruckus. And one could argue that you cannot assign guilt by association on GWB because he was just visiting on a campaign circuit.

But if GWB were a member of the Bob Jones Church or Jerry Falwell's Thomas Road Baptist Church it would be fair to say that GWB subscribes to say Falwell's or Jone's teachings and make a case for guilt by association.

I'm guessing the above posters perhaps have no idea what belonging to a church/religion means...

Yes, I do, and you would be a fool if you think that I agreed with everything the priest at my home parish said simply because he officiated at my wedding. Oddly enough, belonging to a church or religion does not mean agreeing with everything a person has said in forty years of preaching.

[garya505 2]

I have relatives and friends who have some pretty far out ideas - politically. Should I not talk to them anymore simply because I disagree with some of their beliefs?

If one of these friends is your religious leader and you listen to his/her sermon every week, and you are planning on running for a high level elected office (like President, for example), then yes you should dump him/her. It's just common sense.

[Caladan 19]

And then you can be accused of flip-flopping and shopping for churches that fit your worldview, because everyone knows that no criticism would ever, ever come from that.

[HAL 9000 96]

I have relatives and friends who have some pretty far out ideas - politically. Should I not talk to them anymore simply because I disagree with some of their beliefs?

If one of these friends is your religious leader and you listen to his/her sermon every week, and you are planning on running for a high level elected office (like President, for example), then yes you should dump him/her. It's just common sense.

Then I guess the Bushes should have dumped the anti-American Bin Ladens from their commercial contacts.

[garya505 2]

Religious leaders use the pulpit ALL THE TIME to speak about political issues. Abortion; prayer in schools; public education; 'sin' taxes on drink and cigarettes; zoning - you name it, they talk about it - especially local politics, where their comments and idealogy can actually be more influential.

As if racism and gender weren't enough in this contest, now we have to throw religion into the mix. Reminds of Kennedy and how some folks were afraid if he were elected the Pope would be running the country. Now we're skeered of the minister........

Religion gets added to the mix if a candidate has a long-time religious leader who chooses to use his pulpit as a place to promote his political views. It's only common sense to ask then, does the candidate share those political views? If not, why would he listen to them for 20 years?

[HAL 9000 96]

Again, its one comment being fussed about 5 years ago when the politician in question was not even in audience. Facts!

[garya505 2]

I have relatives and friends who have some pretty far out ideas - politically. Should I not talk to them anymore simply because I disagree with some of their beliefs?

If one of these friends is your religious leader and you listen to his/her sermon every week, and you are planning on running for a high level elected office (like President, for example), then yes you should dump him/her. It's just common sense.

Then I guess the Bushes should have dumped the anti-American Bin Ladens from their commercial contacts.

If Bush was running for President now that might be a valid question, but he's not.

Just curious, the Bin Laden family is large, are they all anti- American?

[garya505 2]

Again, its one comment being fussed about 5 years ago when the politician in question was not even in audience. Facts!

The pastor only talked about politics once, 5 years ago?

[Caladan 19]

Again, its one comment being fussed about 5 years ago when the politician in question was not even in audience. Facts!

The pastor only talked about politics once, 5 years ago?

With the pearl-clutching going on over this one sermon, it's hard to believe that he was giving 'God Damn America' sermons every week. If they existed, it'd be a bigger story than 'so, like, this one time, in 2003, when the politician wasn't even there, his pastor made a doody.' I think it's safe to assume that this wasn't a common occurrence.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In context we're talking about one chapter of a very large nationwide church attended by approximately 1.2 million people nationwide whose members variously include:

Daniel Akaka — U.S. Senator from Hawaii (Democrat)

Max Baucus — U.S. Senator from Montana (Democrat)

Julian Bond — Chair NAACP (2004–present)

Walter Brueggemann — contemporary theologian, poet, and UCC minister, retired professor at Columbia Theological Seminary

William Sloane Coffin — Late Presbyterian/UCC minister and activist; 'pastor, prophet, poet'; former Chaplain at Yale University and Senior Pastor of Riverside Church, New York City

Common — Rapper, recording artist, member of Trinity UCC in Chicago

Jon Corzine — Governor of New Jersey (Democrat)

Howard Dean — Former Governor of Vermont (Democrat)

Mark Fernald — Former New Hampshire State senator pg 10

Donald Hall — United States US Poet Laureate

Mills Godwin — Former Governor of Virginia

Bob Graham — Former U.S. Senator from Florida (Democrat)

Judd Gregg — U.S. Senator from New Hampshire (Republican)

Jim Jeffords — Former U.S. Senator from Vermont (Independent)

Dean Koontz — American writer and author. Raised UCC, now is Catholic.

John Williamson Nevin — notable 19th-century theologian

Barack Obama — U.S. Senator, 2008 presidential candidate

Robert Orr — Assistant Secretary General of the United Nations

H. Richard Niebuhr — notable 20th-century theologian

Reinhold Niebuhr — notable 20th-century theologian

Sally Pederson — former Lieutenant Governor of Iowa (Democrat)

Leonard Pitts — Nationally syndicated Pulitzer prize–winning (2004) columnist

Marilynne Robinson — Pulitzer prize-winning (2005) author of the novel Gilead

Philip Schaff — notable 19th-century theologian

George Smathers — Democratic Senator from Florida

Max L. Stackhouse — public theologian and professor at Princeton Theological Seminary

William "Bill" McKinney — President of Pacific School of Religion, since 1996

Paul Tillich — notable 20th-century theologian

Andrew Young — Civil rights leader, ordained UCC pastor, and former member of Congress, UN ambassador, and mayor of Atlanta, Georgia

Jeri Kehn Thompson - wife of Law & Order star and former U.S. Senator and presidential candidate Fred Thompson

The Chicago chapter is one congregation of this church. We're not talking some obscure place in the back of beyond.

Edited March 14, 2008 by Number 6