My wife left me!

[visaveteran1 33]

A few things to add to the recent responses:

(1) Unlike many of you here, I did not join VJ for emotional support. When I started going through the process I came here strictly to find: [a] what to file, where to file it, and [c] how long will it take. Because in 2004 when we decided to do the whole fiancee visa thing I was genuinely ignorant of how to do it. Once I filed my papers based on the guides here in early 2004 I would come visit maybe once every two weeks to make sure none of the rules have changed.

(2) I am surprised at how quickly everyone started to hate me the "anonymous poster" for honestly posting that I think everyone takes this whole internet thing way too seriously and at the same token how quickly they disregarded anything positive that has come from my posts in the past.

(3) After my wife arrived VJ has been just a hobby to me, a practice run at answering questions and making arguments about a topic I am genuinely interested in.

(4) Call me traditional but I cannot understand how someone can form "deep" attachments to a "virtual" community of people. For those that have, I feel sorry for you.

(5) "Arrogant, low class, and #######", just to name a few characteristics that have been described about me. I could never form any of those opinions about anyone until I spent at least a few hours interacting with them in person.

Anyway to finish off, in true Russian fashion, as Slim had suggested, here is a video clip of another "sucker" and hopefully an ending message to everyone else: "все будeт хорошо"m

I will respond one last time on this issue...and then honor my commitment not to read Satellite posts. Anyone living inside the USA who does not see that the internet is THE WAY for people to connect with each other and have true interpersonal relationships is blind. When I look around i see email, instant messaging, teleconferences,, chat rooms and common interest forums as a major way for people to communicate. Maybe this is not good...but it is the communication phenomena that is taking place in the 21st century.

Many of us met our fiancees and wives thanks to internet web sites and we used email, instant messaging, Skype and Yahoo Messenger or AIM to talk to them long distance.

So...I think Satellite's pity for those of us who use the internet to have real relationships reveals his ignorance of the world around him.

[KimandRuss 0]

Judge not lest ye be judged.

Many of these people have met their significant other in online communities. Telling them it's stupid to become close demeans their relatioinships. I have had an online forum for ten years that has been on Good Morning America, Discovery channel and several other shows, magazines ..etc. because it's helped so many people all over the world find life-changing support. We are a close group (who btw meets face to face at least once a year). I'm damn proud of that. So that is just what??? A joke to you??? No real support???

You sir, are a joke. If you don't like it here it's simple... don't come. You don't have the right to make fun or judge anyone else.

The fact that you can not interact with another human being if you are not face to face says quite a bit about you.

You don't want the recourse, you should not have been so stupid to try and defend this childish behavior.

You believe you are superior...which in itself makes you look arrogant, pathetic and weak.

You dare judge these other fine people for reaching out to you after the adolescent behavior of you and your spouse???

It must be so hard for you being so perfect and above everyone else. Not that you care, but I have nothing but pity for you.

To the rest of you caring souls... don't let one arrogant know-it-all take the good from you or make you question your own agenda. Having a caring heart is one of life's greatest blessings.

[JVKn'CVO 11]

Satellite, maybe next time you and your wife have an argument, you can use that intelligence of yours to find an alternative way to deal with it…you know, other than waste other people’s time with a lie.

Saludos,

Caro

[mox 298]

I too (am I "fourthing?") believe this thread has outlived its useful life. I think everything that can be said has been said. Hoping a moderator will step in with the padlock before it just becomes a catch-all for drive-by's.

[Satellite 1]

Many of us met our fiancees and wives thanks to internet web sites and we used email, instant messaging, Skype and Yahoo Messenger or AIM to talk to them long distance.

So...I think Satellite's pity for those of us who use the internet to have real relationships reveals his ignorance of the world around him.

When did I say the internet is not good for communicating? It is a great medium for communication and sharing information. I am all for it. Everyone on here did meet their fiancee in person, before he or she considered doing the visa process? At some point virtual did meet reality. In most cases the two happened to be the same, but you did still meet, right? And the end objective of the visa process is to be together, not to remain virtually apart and ultimately the internet in our cases helped facilitate that.

You don't have the right to make fun or judge anyone else.

The essensce of this country is free speech if you haven't forgotten. Since when did you become the moderator of that when even the government needs a compelling interest before they do.

I did not laugh at anyone's relationship or how it was formed. Not sure where that came from.

As to fellow people on this board, I don't recall the objective being to meet together. Nor do I recall meeting anyone on here. I see VJ as a virtual library of thoughts, ideas, and experiences of real people. And everyone can take whatever he or she wants from it.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Satellite, why not just apologize and admit the joke was in very poor taste. No need to defend anymore counselor. Maybe then ask Ewok to close this one on down. I think a lot of people would feel more at ease.

[Blues Fairy 0]

Sat you gotta admit that calling us "suckers" was rude and mauvais-ton, even though we're just virtual people to you. And since we're just a bunch of virtuals anyway, a simple "sorry for a bad joke" won't sap your emotional energy too much, will it? Consider it as fiiling an entry in a timeline and be done with it already.

And Slim I think you also owe an apology to those Russians here whom you so easily generalized as arrogant and indifferent by definition.

[~Laura and Nick~ 5]

(4) Call me traditional but I cannot understand how someone can form "deep" attachments to a "virtual" community of people. For those that have, I feel sorry for you.

If I went with your logic I wouldn't be marrying Nick. You can have real relationships with people you meet online.

In fact, there is a person on this board who I am very close to and would tell anything to and he IS my friend.

[Bobalouie 0]

Many of us met our fiancees and wives thanks to internet web sites and we used email, instant messaging, Skype and Yahoo Messenger or AIM to talk to them long distance.

So...I think Satellite's pity for those of us who use the internet to have real relationships reveals his ignorance of the world around him.

When did I say the internet is not good for communicating? It is a great medium for communication and sharing information. I am all for it. Everyone on here did meet their fiancee in person, before he or she considered doing the visa process? At some point virtual did meet reality. In most cases the two happened to be the same, but you did still meet, right? And the end objective of the visa process is to be together, not to remain virtually apart and ultimately the internet in our cases helped facilitate that.

You don't have the right to make fun or judge anyone else.

The essensce of this country is free speech if you haven't forgotten. Since when did you become the moderator of that when even the government needs a compelling interest before they do.

I did not laugh at anyone's relationship or how it was formed. Not sure where that came from.

As to fellow people on this board, I don't recall the objective being to meet together. Nor do I recall meeting anyone on here. I see VJ as a virtual library of thoughts, ideas, and experiences of real people. And everyone can take whatever he or she wants from it.

Yup, we have free speach in this country, but that still does not give you the right to say whatever you want, anytime you want. If you dont believe me, walk into a bank and scream "this is a robbery, everyone on the floor" or walk up to the security folks at the airport the next time you are there and scream "I have a bomb". Try your "it was all a joke, no one got hurt because I didnt have a gun or a bomb" defence. See how far you get with that arguement counsellor. For an aspiring lawyer, you sure seem to be deficient in the common sense and ethical behavior department.

[dmhweb 0]

You all need to lighten up!

Sat always has good and generous advice.

As I understand it Olga gets mad at Sat (Mark) for spending too much? time on this board (could be ). She hijacked his account and posted the OP to get back at him.

Some of the n00b's on here don't quite get this and have taken offense.

I'd say the "suckers" part was more in jest than anything else, besides, how do we really know it was Sat and not Olga playing with Sats account again?

Does it really matter?

[kud 0]

The good news is I do not log on during weekends, so I guess I missed all the fun.

[Satellite 1]

Yup, we have free speech in this country, but that still does not give you the right to say whatever you want, anytime you want. If you don't believe me, walk into a bank and scream "this is a robbery, everyone on the floor" or walk up to the security folks at the airport the next time you are there and scream "I have a bomb". Try your "it was all a joke, no one got hurt because I didn't have a gun or a bomb" defense. See how far you get with that argument counselor. For an aspiring lawyer, you sure seem to be deficient in the common sense and ethical behavior department.

The examples you bring up are methods of unprotected speech. Here are a few more examples to add to your list:

(1) Advocacy of unlawful conduct

(2) Defamation

(3) Obscenity

(4) Fighting Words

(5) Deceitful, untruthful, and misleading forms of commercial speech

Your examples fall under the first category. You can add screaming "fire" in a crowded movie theater. That is the classical case. Now if you think criticizing (i.e. opinions) someone falls into any of the above five categories, you are in trouble.

[slim 1,514]

I'll jump back into the fray here and (sorry didn't quote everyone) respond first to mox when he posted that I was trying to cover Satellite's responses as simply a cultural thing that we westerners couldn't understand. Not exactly what I meant but close. I'll simply say that when you have a young (pissed off) Russian wife living with you in the States and she does something that wouldn't normally be done in the States, there's not a whole lot you can do to rectify the situation and if you're lucky you can laugh at it. Too bad it has to be at others' expense but when it comes down to it, is it better to have the Russia forum's panties in a bunch or your wife's? And I'm in no way shape or form trying to say that Satellite doesn't understand American culture to the point where he inadvertantly offended everyone, all I'm saying is he avoided being even more in the dog house and he and his wife got to enjoy themselves a little bit.

Work. School. Sleep. Trying to squeeze in some "us" time and trying not to piss her off in the mean time. I'm not jumping in on his side saying he's right or wrong, I'm simply saying that if your wife isn't here already and you're not working and going to school (and so is she) then you're probably posting things with a whole lot more emotion and a whole lot more time to type.

Simply put, once you're Journey switches to "living the Dream" here in the States, you're going to give two-$#!Ts about how the people on VJ feel about you. Sure, it's nice and it's wonderful, but your reality is living under the same roof with you already, and she (and her happiness) takes priority over you stupid blat visa blat journey blat. (That was a direct quote, by the way.)

Next, on to seanconneryii, you hit it spot-on with your reply to my post. I did play "devil's advocate" and I am the contrarian here. I don't get emotionally involved in this forum. Sure, I do feel for people and I do say "Oh man" when I read something like the OP, but I'm not going to agree with anyone that says Satellite should leave the forum because he called others suckers. Call it "rock star adoration" or whatever you want, but for me it's a matter of simply being honest about why we're all on here and then having the integrity to stick to it. If you want to hold me accountable for that, go ahead. Should Satellite get a free pass for calling people suckers? That's up to you. But if it were up to me, it'd roll right off my back as I did a little more reading on the history of the Mr. and Mrs. Satellite relationship. I know you're skin isn't as thick as mine and you're in a different situation, but try to view this from his situation, not yours!

And to close this thread down because of tensions it causes is like telling your wife to go home because the stress she causes.

All I'm saying by my posts here is simply this - I like VJ. I like all of you. I genuinely do have feelings for what is said and posted on here. However, my wife and I, and the problems or things that we do in our relationship is going to trump whatever feelings get hurt here on VJ. And when something happens in our "real life" together at home, I could give a d@mn what my "virtual buddies" think about me or her.

And truth be told... most of you are going to disappear in a few months anyway. Are we going to be sad because you're gone? Maybe. But, we're all going to take solace in the fact that you've now moved on with your "real life." And for people like Satellite, who continues to take time out of his "real life", time that all of you seem to measure (counting days from approvals, counting down interview dates, "one more precious day closer", etc., etc., etc.) are all failing to remember that he's taking that precious time out of his day to be here with his virtual buddies instead of doing something with his "real wife."

And Slim I think you also owe an apology to those Russians here whom you so easily generalized as arrogant and indifferent by definition.

So you're going to deny that Russians, by very definition, are arrogant and indifferent?

If you can show me a Russian being humble or ashamed, I'll consider an apology. Until then, I'm sticking to my generalization.

And don't try to show me pictures of Russians crying after the war or something like that. Grief in no way signifies compassion, it's a response. Most of the other Russians in the picture are saying "It's not my business. Why I must be sad because of this tragedy. It is tragedy sure, but it's not tragedy for me. And anyway it is war. Yes of course people will be die in war. What can we do?" (And then they make that little hand-clapping-clearing into the "I don't know" and go about their business.)

Prove me wrong. I have hope that there are Russians out there who aren't arrogant and indifferent. Who are humble and compassionate. Who can be empathetic without being condescending.

But so far, Satellite isn't setting a very good example. I know he's not Russian, but the same Soviet "Why should I care about you?" mentality that helped him form his views and responses has also shaped the views and responses of most of the Russians I know.

And I realize not everyone is a certain way all the time. Sure, even I cried when Old Yeller died. But, generalizations can be made about me and everyone else with some accuracy, no?

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

As Susan Powter used to shout, "Stop The Insanity!"

Come on Sat, stop the poking. Let this one die.

[mox 298]

Well I guess we're not gonna let it die. Dammit, I just hosed off all the mud and put on clean clothes. But hey, I'll jump back in...

I'll jump back into the fray here and (sorry didn't quote everyone) respond first to mox when he posted that I was trying to cover Satellite's responses as simply a cultural thing that we westerners couldn't understand. Not exactly what I meant but close. I'll simply say that when you have a young (pissed off) Russian wife living with you in the States and she does something that wouldn't normally be done in the States, there's not a whole lot you can do to rectify the situation and if you're lucky you can laugh at it. Too bad it has to be at others' expense but when it comes down to it, is it better to have the Russia forum's panties in a bunch or your wife's? And I'm in no way shape or form trying to say that Satellite doesn't understand American culture to the point where he inadvertantly offended everyone, all I'm saying is he avoided being even more in the dog house and he and his wife got to enjoy themselves a little bit.

I can dig this. But that's not what's really going on here. Because if that's what was truly going on, Satellite would have come back and just said "sorry folks, my wife hijacked my account, it's not true, nothing to see here." That's all it would have taken. A real apology would have been gravy, but whatevs.

I even forgave the "sucker" comment. It stung, it pissed me off, but I swallowed my pride and was prepared to move on. Again, if it was a doghouse scenario, then it would have ended right there. Satellite had the option of just not replying or issuing an apology. I did not ask for nor expect the latter, the former would have been just fine to me.

But he went even beyond that, and that's where it became apparent that this was not just a domestic squabble. It might have started that way, but it wound up showing Satellite's true feelings about this community. And hey, he's entitled to his feelings, and unlike some others I think he's even entitled to say what he thinks, up to but not including shouting fire in a theater. In fact, I'd much rather he were crystal clear about his opinions of this membership rather than holding it back. So kudos for that I guess.

Work. School. Sleep. Trying to squeeze in some "us" time and trying not to piss her off in the mean time. I'm not jumping in on his side saying he's right or wrong, I'm simply saying that if your wife isn't here already and you're not working and going to school (and so is she) then you're probably posting things with a whole lot more emotion and a whole lot more time to type.

Also agreed. But again, I think you're reading Satellite's motivations all wrong. Perhaps he can clarify.

Simply put, once you're Journey switches to "living the Dream" here in the States, you're going to give two-$#!Ts about how the people on VJ feel about you. Sure, it's nice and it's wonderful, but your reality is living under the same roof with you already, and she (and her happiness) takes priority over you stupid blat visa blat journey blat. (That was a direct quote, by the way.)

Also agree. In fact, if it ever becomes an issue in my marriage, you can expect an hasta la vista from me, post haste.

Should Satellite get a free pass for calling people suckers? That's up to you. But if it were up to me, it'd roll right off my back as I did a little more reading on the history of the Mr. and Mrs. Satellite relationship. I know you're skin isn't as thick as mine and you're in a different situation, but try to view this from his situation, not yours!

This is actually good advice, and I think a lot of us really did give Satellite a free pass, even after the "sucker" comment. But it also raises a really good point that seanconneryii addressed in a previous post, and that is: if Satellite doesn't give a rats ### what anyone here thinks, why the occasionall forum drama that is seemingly designed to pull our emotional chords? Given recent events it really does seem like Satellite is toying with us. Maybe he could clarify this as well.

And to close this thread down because of tensions it causes is like telling your wife to go home because the stress she causes.

I think the analogy fails, but hell if we want to keep the thread going I'm all for it as long as it continues to be useful discussion. Maybe I'm not seeing what I think I'm seeing, although every one of Sat's posts continues to reinforce my perception. The moderators will almost always close a thread at the OP's request, so Satellite need only contact a moderator if he gets tired of us.

All I'm saying by my posts here is simply this - I like VJ. I like all of you. I genuinely do have feelings for what is said and posted on here. However, my wife and I, and the problems or things that we do in our relationship is going to trump whatever feelings get hurt here on VJ. And when something happens in our "real life" together at home, I could give a d@mn what my "virtual buddies" think about me or her.

Can I get you a little nail polish with that Nancy?

And Slim I think you also owe an apology to those Russians here whom you so easily generalized as arrogant and indifferent by definition.

So you're going to deny that Russians, by very definition, are arrogant and indifferent?

There is a difference between proud and arrogant. The vast majority of Russians I have met are proud. I've met only a few arrogant Russians (some of them *ahem* online). And Russian indifference is just body language. It's kind of the equivalent of the American tendency to "strike a pose" when you feel the need to look cool. Russians are insanely curious, they just don't want to look like they are.

However, if you need proof of Russian compassion, I'll direct you to

It looks to be a BBC production, but pay attention to the Russian social workers. Edited February 25, 2008 by mox