Saudi Arabia to execute woman for 'witchcraft'

[Ban Hammer 14,791]

How exactly do 'human rights' exist without the UN Gary?

so the un invented human rights?

[Alex+R 0]

How exactly do 'human rights' exist without the UN Gary?

so the un invented human rights?

lol, kinda

[Peikko 1,575]

I have already answered your question re why human rights violations take place, but the fact that we recognize them as such is because there is a declaration of human rights. No, I don't believe that there needs to be a one world goverment. You dismissal of the real achievements of the UN is quite staggering to me.

As I said Charles, you really don't understand the argument.

[GaryC 7]

I have already answered your question re why human rights violations take place, but the fact that we recognize them as such is because there is a declaration of human rights. No, I don't believe that there needs to be a one world goverment. You dismissal of the real achievements of the UN is quite staggering to me.

As I said Charles, you really don't understand the argument.

Exactly what achievements are those? There isn't anything real that they have done.

[Ban Hammer 14,791]

I have already answered your question re why human rights violations take place, but the fact that we recognize them as such is because there is a declaration of human rights. No, I don't believe that there needs to be a one world goverment. You dismissal of the real achievements of the UN is quite staggering to me.

As I said Charles, you really don't understand the argument.

sure the un invented human rights. just like al gore invented the internet.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

That is so very wrong. No one should be able to tell us what to do, especially the UN. We are a sovereign country. I am not willing to give that up to anyone. The UN was wrong to begin with and is wrong now. Disband the UN.

LOL@"That is so very wrong." (But a light-hearted LOL)

Nobody can tell us what to do, but they should be able to put a lot of pressure on us. Of course, we're not just a sovereign nation, we're also the most powerful one out there at the moment. soooo hey, global politics sure are complicated, huh? I need a cookie...

nobody can tell us what do do.... but you betchyouazz we will tell the rest of the world how to live their lives... :whistle: :whistle:

[GaryC 7]

That is so very wrong. No one should be able to tell us what to do, especially the UN. We are a sovereign country. I am not willing to give that up to anyone. The UN was wrong to begin with and is wrong now. Disband the UN.

LOL@"That is so very wrong." (But a light-hearted LOL)

Nobody can tell us what to do, but they should be able to put a lot of pressure on us. Of course, we're not just a sovereign nation, we're also the most powerful one out there at the moment. soooo hey, global politics sure are complicated, huh? I need a cookie...

nobody can tell us what do do.... but you betchyouazz we will tell the rest of the world how to live their lives... :whistle: :whistle:

As long as they don't threaten us or our friends then we don't tell them how to live. But it seems that some want us to (in reference to the OP).

Edited February 14, 2008 by GaryC

[Peikko 1,575]

Personally it is my belief that even if the only thing the UN had achieved was the Universal Declartion of Human Rights that's enough right there to justify its existance. However, they do so much more than that in real terms that effect some of the poorest people on the planet. I have a feeling what you object to most is probably more the security council than the UN itself. However, I could be wrong. Regardless, if you do have any belief that human rights are important then you by definition support the work of the UN. If you don't, then fair enough, as I said, you go with your dog eat dog society but don't bother with any terrorism arguments because that simply doesn't wash.

Charles, you really don't get it.

[GaryC 7]

Personally it is my belief that even if the only thing the UN had achieved was the Universal Declartion of Human Rights that's enough right there to justify its existance. However, they do so much more than that in real terms that effect some of the poorest people on the planet. I have a feeling what you object to most is probably more the security council than the UN itself. However, I could be wrong. Regardless, if you do have any belief that human rights are important then you by definition support the work of the UN. If you don't, then fair enough, as I said, you go with your dog eat dog society but don't bother with any terrorism arguments because that simply doesn't wash.

Charles, you really don't get it.

The UDHR is just a piece of paper. It changes nothing without the power to enforce it. Unless your advocating giving the UN that power then all it will ever be is flowery words and high ideals.

[Alex+R 0]

Personally it is my belief that even if the only thing the UN had achieved was the Universal Declartion of Human Rights that's enough right there to justify its existance. However, they do so much more than that in real terms that effect some of the poorest people on the planet. I have a feeling what you object to most is probably more the security council than the UN itself. However, I could be wrong. Regardless, if you do have any belief that human rights are important then you by definition support the work of the UN. If you don't, then fair enough, as I said, you go with your dog eat dog society but don't bother with any terrorism arguments because that simply doesn't wash.

Charles, you really don't get it.

The UDHR is just a piece of paper. It changes nothing without the power to enforce it. Unless your advocating giving the UN that power then all it will ever be is flowery words and high ideals.

I don't think anyone has argued with that. Although now that you bring it up I should mention that the UDHR has been cited in some legal opinions here, so is customary law.

[Peikko 1,575]

The concept of human rights is valid on its own, it doesn't require universal enforecment to make it worthwhile although obviously it's important to keep reaching to get there. Your statement is another of those "because something doesn't work completely then it's not worth having arguments" which is simply wrong. You seem to not get the idea that without a vehicle for arbitration, however imperfect, the concept itself becomes void.

[GaryC 7]

The concept of human rights is valid on its own, it doesn't require universal enforecment to make it worthwhile although obviously it's important to keep reaching to get there. Your statement is another of those "because something doesn't work completely then it's not worth having arguments" which is simply wrong. You seem to not get the idea that without a vehicle for arbitration, however imperfect, the concept itself becomes void.

My position is that it hasn't worked at all. The world is just as bad now as when the UN was formed. The UN has failed completely.

[Peikko 1,575]

You are wrong though.

I am trying to explain why that is, but you fail to grasp the idea that human rights as a concept can't exist without the framework of the UN or like body.

[Peikko 1,575]

The declaration of human rights in itself is a monumental achievement.

[GaryC 7]

You are wrong though.

I am trying to explain why that is, but you fail to grasp the idea that human rights as a concept can't exist without the framework of the UN or like body.

I understand your point, I just don't agree with it. Your saying that there must be a world body to lay out the concept of human rights. I understand that. I am saying that without the power behind that body it's all just words that mean nothing.