Fairytale in New York

[mustang-sally 8]

I just read this.

This has been played every year here at Christmas since its release in 1987.

P.C. Madness !!!!!!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7149525.stm

[pucklechurch 0]

They just need to bleep out the word where Kirsty MacColl calls Shane MacGowan 'handsome' and I'll be happy.

[Silas 0]

I just read this.

This has been played every year here at Christmas since its release in 1987.

P.C. Madness !!!!!!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7149525.stm

Sorry, I just don't see this as "P.C. madness". This is a mountain made out of a mole-hill and the sort of tabloid indignation I'd expect from the Daily Mail and not the BBC's own website. Radio stations and music shows have been dubbing offensive words out of songs pre-watershed for years now - it's standard practice - and I don't see how this is any different. It is a great song but in this day and age it's understandable that an edited version is played before 9 in the evening; considering the young demographic of Radio 1 listeners I can understand if they've decided to only play the censored version. In fact, most times I've heard the song on local radio stations in the last few years it's been an edited version so really there's nothing new here.

[mustang-sally 8]

According to the poll on the BBC site 93% of people think it shouldn't be censored. This song has been around for 20 years and I have never seen a complaint about the language in it.

I appreciate that offensive words have been dubbed out of some songs and quite rightly so in a lot of cases. But just because the modern meaning of words like "faggot" may offend some people, does that mean it has to be dubbed out of a song 20 years old?

I know that I have heard so much worse recently, songs with 'sexual' content that haven't been censored. Just look also at the language and scenes on the tv here before the watershed!!

This seems to be another case of 'we don't want to upset the minorities' i.e. religion, race, sexual orientation, disabilities, etc. When the majority of people they are worried about offending really don't give a damn.

[ddkm 0]

FYI The BBC has gone back on this decision! Im not surprised though to be fair...if you wanted to blank out the word faggot from 1 song, but then say the word twice in every news cast (2 or 4 times an hour every hour during the day) will cause way more harm!

Just an embarassing day for Radio 1 really, although it was good that the DJs were able to voice their disgust on it (Moyles & Mills)

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Maybe the controversy will help shift a few more units so Shane McGowan can buy some new teeth.

This doesn't annoy me nearly as much as when they take "making love in the green grass" out of Brown-Eyed Girl on the radio. No! We can't say making love!

[Silas 0]

Personally, I think it’s pretty weak of Radio 1 to u-turn on their decision and it will only serve to highlight the inconsistencies of their editing policy. Why, for instance, edit the N word out of Kanye West’s ‘Gold Digger’ - a song by a black man where the word is not overly offensive in context - yet not edit the F word from ‘Fairytale in New York’ where the word is directed pejoratively against a straight man?

I appreciate that offensive words have been dubbed out of some songs and quite rightly so in a lot of cases. But just because the modern meaning of words like "faggot" may offend some people, does that mean it has to be dubbed out of a song 20 years old?

Hang on, what do you mean by the “modern meaningâ€? It’s pretty clear that the usage here is the modern one. If it were a novelty song about faggots in gravy then, yes, that would be people getting unnecessarily offended but the song has always referred to the “modern meaningâ€. What has happened is times have changed and with that comes changes in our values and that, in turn, affects how we view some art. For instance, the anti-Semitism in ‘The Merchant of Venice’ didn’t bother people too much back in the day but in a post-Holocaust world it jars and modern productions of that play have to deal with that problem head-on. It used to be acceptable to have a gollywog but no one in their right mind would dream of buying one for their child. Equally, Al Jolson was the biggest name in show-business throughout the 20s and 30s but to a modern audience his act is crude and distasteful. Likewise, twenty years ago having an openly bisexual character in a family show like Doctor Who would have been unacceptable but now no one but a prude raises an eyebrow at Captain Jack Harkness.

As to the actual dubbing of faggot out of a 20 year old song, it’s the context that is important. Radio is all pervasive and so during Christmas a song like ‘Fairytale in New York’ is inescapable. You hear it while shopping; you hear it in the hairdressers; you hear it in the taxi. Like Slade and Wizzard you hear it everywhere you go. In that context I don’t think it’s unreasonable that an edited version is played before 9pm. You wouldn’t, for example, expect to see an unedited version of Goodfellahs at 2pm on a Saturday afternoon. Nor – and this might be a better example as like the song it deals with a couple viciously arguing - would you expect to see ‘Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf’ with all its language unedited in the morning.

Heck, it’s also not as if the Pogues at the time were against the notion of editing their work in order to get radio play. A no-swearing version of ‘Boys from the Country Hell’ was made at the time of release and when they played ‘Fairytale’ on ‘Top of the Pops’ they changed ‘#######’ to ‘as*’. Times have now changed and it’s faggot rather than ####### or bollocks that people are likely to take offence to. I really don’t see how editing out that word if you’re going to play it at 4 in the afternoon is an issue nor do I feel it devalues the song in any great form.

This seems to be another case of 'we don't want to upset the minorities' i.e. religion, race, sexual orientation, disabilities, etc. When the majority of people they are worried about offending really don't give a damn.

It’s not so much about the people who are offended – they’re certain crackpots out there who spend their whole lives just writing letters of complaint - it’s about normalizing behavior and language that we don’t want normalized. By stating, as Andy Parfitt has, that faggot isn’t offensive in this context (even though that’s the bloody point of it in the lyrics) you run the risk of normalizing that sort of behavior for those at an impressionable age. In my experience, homophobia is one of the last few taboos that remains acceptable in British society; by deeming a word like faggot as acceptable for broadcast on the radio during school runs, well that isn’t helping matters much.

although it was good that the DJs were able to voice their disgust on it (Moyles & Mills)

Yeah, it’s great that Chris “that is so gay†Moyles wades into the debate isn’t it. Might as well have Jim Davidson commenting on it.

Edited December 18, 2007 by Silas

[mustang-sally 8]

Ok

I think we need to agree to differ on this one. I agree with 93% of the population who have polled the BBC in that this is ridiculous censoring over a word that most people dont even think about until it is drawn to their attention in situations like this.

You obviously agree with the other 7% in that the BBC are right to do what they do.

But overall I think this only brings the song to public attention thus increasing sales.

I can only liken this to groups like 'Frankie goes to Hollywood' with "Relax" in the 80's that was banned by the BBC but still reached No 1 in the charts.

I sometimes wonder if the BBC are so controversial over some songs in order to increase sales, afterall there is a big push on at the moment for The Pogues to be the Christmas number one and to beat the X-Factor winner who incidently comes from ITV. Just a thought.

[Silas 0]

I sometimes wonder if the BBC are so controversial over some songs in order to increase sales, afterall there is a big push on at the moment for The Pogues to be the Christmas number one and to beat the X-Factor winner who incidently comes from ITV. Just a thought.

Now this is a point we can agree on.

Still, if it stops Leon (or whatever he's called) getting to number one it will have been worth it.

Edited December 18, 2007 by Silas

[ddkm 0]

This topic definitely has touched a nerve with i didnt know was, uh, touchable!

[Silas 0]

This topic definitely has touched a nerve with i didnt know was, uh, touchable!

Whenever I hear mention of Chris Moyles my nerves start twitching something chronic. Anyway, I'm going to make this my last post on this topic so thought I'd bow out of the thread by posting a great version of the song -

make sure you listen carefully at around 2m25s mind you.

[C and J 1]

Ok

I think we need to agree to differ on this one. I agree with 93% of the population who have polled the BBC in that this is ridiculous censoring over a word that most people dont even think about until it is drawn to their attention in situations like this.

You obviously agree with the other 7% in that the BBC are right to do what they do.

But overall I think this only brings the song to public attention thus increasing sales.

I can only liken this to groups like 'Frankie goes to Hollywood' with "Relax" in the 80's that was banned by the BBC but still reached No 1 in the charts.

I agree with the words in bold, never once have I even thought of the lyrics of this song in any depth. Now I really hope this stupid highlighting of this particular word doesn't ruin the whole point of the song and make people actually focus on that word instead of the song in total.

This isn't quite on the same level as telling Santa's they can't say HO HO HO because of it's current derogatory meaning, but people need to lighten up.

[AtlantiCat 0]

Oddly, I've never heard a censored version of Dire Straits' Money for Nothing in spite of the fact that it contains the lines, "That little faggot with the earring and the make-up. ... That little faggot got his own jet airplane. That little faggot, he's a millionaire."

That gets played on US radio stations all the time at all hours of the day and as far as I remember was never censored, or at least wasn't censored anywhere I heard it.

Regardless, censorship doesn't solve anything, ever. Hiding things and pretending they don't exist never solves anything. Having age-appropriate discussions with your kids about "taboo" subjects is the only solution.