littlefrench

Hello everyone! Hope you are doing well. It's almost time for me to file my N400 as I am close to my 5th year as LPR, however there is something not clear to me and I was hoping to find someone with a similar experience.

I'm about to move to another State and I know that USCIS requires you to live in the State or Service district for 3 months before applying (see below)

A. Three-Month Residency Requirement (in State or Service District)

In general, an applicant for naturalization must file his or her application for naturalization with the state or service district that has jurisdiction over his or her place of residence. The applicant must have resided in that location for at least three months prior to filing. 

However, section D also states the following:

D. 90-Day Early Filing Provision (INA 334)

In cases where an applicant has filed early and the required three month period of residence in a state or service district falls within the required five-year period of continuous residence, jurisdiction for filing will be based on the three-month period immediately preceding the examination on the application.

Here is the link for your reference:

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-d-chapter-6

So if I read this correctly, it's my understanding that if someone moves to another State let's say 100 days before the 5th anniversary as LPR and then files the N400 in the new place of residence using the 90-day early filing provision, the applicant's jurisdiction would be the new place of residence, even if they lived there only 10 days at the moment of filing. So as long as when USCIS examines the application (interview) you spent at least three months in that jurisdiction, you should be fine. 

Hope to get more clarifications from you all in case I'm missing anything here. 

Thanks!

Hi @Villanelle @fromthewater, I just got approved on both grounds! Waiting for the actual notice in the mail. Curious to see if it says section 216(c)(4)(C).

On 1/9/2021 at 9:46 AM, Villanelle said:

@littlefrench Thank you for the clarifications. It can be hard to give advice on the forums because there are so many variables.  I think we all agree though that the lack of consistency is a huge part of the current problems with USCIS. Yes, technically any service center can process abuse waiver 751s. Their goal (was and still is I believe) to get them all sent and processed by VSC because those officers are trained for abuse cases. Personally if I had an abuse 751 pending I would want it to go to VSC. Sadly there are still far too many people who minimize abuse- some of which are immigration officers. If one has an abuse 751 waiver pending and its not located at VSC- thats fine, nothing wrong with that. Those filing abuse waivers should expect their case to go to VSC - same as those who file other forms can expect their form to be handled by the service center based on their address dictated- however workloads can be moved as they see fit. 

 

As you said the official policy on waivers is not as clear cut as it should be. Policy clarifications have been issued in the past but they too are written in a confusing way. The 751 is also unique in that you can file it multiple times at any point up to the very end- which is a Judge terminating your status. You can fill out multiple waivers on one form or you can file multiple forms paying each time with varying boxes checked. The bottom line though is everything you send to them they have a duty to process. They cant just ignore it or leave it pending. At the end of the day so to speak everything has to be officially closed out in the system one way or another. 

 

I have never heard of anyone sending a 751 with divorce + abuse checked and USCIS chooses to approve the divorce waiver and simply ignores the abuse waiver submitted. If they feel you dont qualify for the abuse waiver you will be told- first with the RFE asking for additional evidence of such. If you then submit additional evidence yet they still dont feel you qualify then as you said above you will end up in an interview where its resolved, which usually means removing boxes you dont qualify for or separating them into separate petitions.  When you have separate petitions with varying waiver types on each its a bit different because as noted above you can have multiple 751s pending at the same time. In those cases when one of the petitions are approved the remaining petitions are then closed out since they are then considered requests for something you already have if that makes sense. Its the same concept as applying for a GC when you have one. It will be closed out because you already have the benefit you are asking for. Most Officers are not very forthcoming about procedures so its very common for people to end up confused about what exactly happened in their case files from a technical perspective. I suppose the best advice is if you submitted multiple waiver types (on one form) and were issued an approval with no RFE or interview then you should assume you were approved for all the waiver types. If the same and you were RFEd and responded and approved then again you should assume you satisfied all the boxes. If you were interviewed then you need to reflect back on the interview to determine if waiver boxes were removed or dropped. If you are unsure then they probably werent dropped because when they are you are usually told this in a direct fashion. 

 

The above is just my personal understanding of the process and I would encourage anyone with any experience of having submitted multiple waiver types (specifically abuse +divorce) and ended up having the abuse box dropped to share their stories. 

Hi @Villanelle ! Hope you are doing well. Thanks for posting this.

There have been increasing efforts in pressuring USCIS to have VSC process abuse waivers. To your point this is helpful because WAVA adjudicators are better trained and this is important especially when abuse waivers are based on psychological abuse (extreme cruelty). Seems like many adjudicators in other service centers lack the appropriate training and sometimes they deny abuse waivers if there isn't any physical abuse. However, most of them I suppose get approved when reviewed "de novo" in removal proceedings.

Note: I just wanted to highlight again though that VSC currently doesn't process any I-751 waivers. If they do, it's just to help other service centers with workload but it's not common policy. Again, I-751 abuse waiver are routinely adjudicated by the various service centers like any other I-751 form.

I agree with you on how USCIS approaches multiple waivers filings. 

On 12/28/2020 at 8:08 PM, fromthewater said:

Thank you, @Villanelle.

 

So what you are saying is that if you checked both divorce and abuse, and were approved, then you are approved for both. In that case, you qualify for N-400 under the 3-year rule?

 

I just know that sometimes you check multiple boxes and were approved without unticking anything, the approval notice would still say something like "approved as a waiver of the joint filing requirement under INA 216(c)(4)(C)" for example. In that case it kind of suggest even though you ticked 2, you were approved based on only one of them.

 

It would also be interesting that so many attorneys out there are saying you need to find out which ground you were approved based on, when in fact, if you did not untick anything, you were approved based on ALL grounds...

Hi, what @Villanelle is saying is true but only in part.

First of all, abuse waivers are NOT processed at VSC. That's a common assumption that people make but it's wrong, since these waivers are connected to VAWA. They are processed like any other case in the Service Center where you filed, and they can be transferred to help with backlogs. I learned this myself: never listen to what USCIS tells you on the phone, especially regarding abuser waivers. I still remember when during an info pass appointment an officer told me that there are no waivers for I-751.

Regarding the multiple boxes issue, there isn't any official policy from USCIS on how to approach this. You can check all the boxes that apply to your case but every ground will be considered individually. Your case won't be denied if you qualify for the divorce waiver but not for the abuse one, and there is no requirement for you to uncheck one of the boxes do avoid a denial. However, people checking multiple boxes are almost always called in for an interview, and if the officer has any doubt on how to approve your form, it's often resolved in that setting. 

NOTE: I see a lot of people criticizing the choice of checking multiple boxes. This is important in one situation: if/when your I-751 gets denied and you are sent to removal proceedings, you can renew your petition in from of an immigration judge. The judge can review only the grounds that you filed with USCIS. That's why many attorneys advise to check multiple boxes. 

1 minute ago, Atstake said:

So you will send few more evidence ? 
and that should be good ? 
what more can you send ( I can’t even think of any ) 

she is confident that I will be ok even if probably they will call me in for an interview.

I have some more text messages to send, social media posts, a couple of revised affidavits, more photos, etc.

16 hours ago, Scandi said:

Absolutely, as an abuse waiver require more documents. The divorce waiver only require a divorce decree, very simple. Outside of the normal evidence of course.

Every case is different.

With an abuse waiver it's easier to prove good faith since the officer can consider "any credible evidence" like in VAWA cases.

Especially in a cases like mine where separation happened a couple of months after conditional residence was granted, abuse will be useful to explain this.

Anyways I spoke with my lawyer and she thinks that, looking at the RFE they sent, the officer didn't even make the effort to look at my case.

@AtstakeIt's just a Request for Evidence. I will send some more stuff that I saved anticipating this. 

Also, probably submitting a legal brief stating the appropriate case law. 

1 hour ago, Atstake said:

Wow ... this is exactly the proof that I have ... I am surprised why they sent RFE 

do you think a simple divorce waiver would have been better than a abuse waiver ? 

The RFE is very generic and seems like they sent it without even looking at my case. Reading on other forums I see a lot of people (even joint filers) received something similar.

I filed for both divorce and abuse waiver, so I can also qualify for only one of those, in case I don't meet the requirements for the others. However the abuse would help me explain the short relationship and the lack of some evidence.

10 hours ago, fromthewater said:

Can you please share the content of RFE once received?

What were the evidences you submitted?

 

I am also a WAC divorce waiver in CA. And I worry I don't have enough evidence... We separated around 1.5 years in and divorce finalized after another 1.5 years.  

I got the letter..seems like they need more evidence for both good faith and abuse. However they don't explain why the evidence I submitted are insufficient and they ask for evidence that I have already sent. Touching base with my lawyer next week to define next steps. 

This is what I sent to prove good faith:

- joint lease agreement

- utilities bills

- family phone plan

- gym membership

- joint checking account showing transactions 

- voided checks

- our name as beneficiary on insurance and joint address

- our name on work documents and joint address

- photos with her family, her friends, my friends, and trip together

- affidavits from friends confirming courtship, common experience and joint residence

- social media post, including here family's

- emails and messages between me and her family

- text messages between us

- divorce decree

This is what I sent to prove abuse (psychological):

- my personal statement of about 15 pages

- psychological evaluation from my therapist, about 10 pages. I want to point out that I started seeing my therapist when I was still married and living together, and that I've been going to therapy once a week so he wrote the evaluation after about 120 sessions. And I'm still going. So it's not an evaluation I sought just at the moment of applying for the waiver.

- letter from my psychiatrist to confirm the diagnosis and that it's related to the abuse I suffered, and prescription of psychotropic medications as treatment. Been taking medication for three years and meeting the psychiatrist every 3-6 months.

- 5 affidavits from friends that witnessed the abuse

- text messages confirming abuse

I got an update that a RFE was sent on Jan 30...still waiting for the letter with the details. My case is WAC but filed as a divorce/abuse waiver

Hi, I am in your same situation, however I filed for ROC a year ago and still waiting for an update. 

I filed for both waivers, divorce and abuse (psychological) since my divorce was issued anyways.

IMPORTANT: This is not legal advice and you should contact an expert lawyer.

The evidentiary standard between the two waivers is different. If you file for an abuse waver, in evaluating if your marriage was in good faith, USCIS will use the "any credible evidence" standard. This is because abuse victims, like in your case, don't have much evidence and most of the time have been destroyed by the abuser. So it's easier to prove good faith for an abuse waiver than in a divorce waiver. meaning, USCIS cares about the reasons of your divorce. 

Also, keep in mind the following:

- it's better if you show you've seen a therapist for many sessions (in my case I've seen mine for more than two years). 

- You don't need to have a PTSD diagnosis. PTSD diagnosis is possible only if you have been exposed to death. Careful with this because some lawyers, therapists, and people in this forum tend to use PTSD inappropriately.  Major depression is enough.

- If you get divorced, you can check both box. It's not true that this complicates things. 

Good luck with your application!

2 minutes ago, slimbolina said:

Yes! But it wasn’t delivered.

Thanks for your reply!

I was actually doing some research and sometimes people received emails like this but the case status "Card/ Document Production" is just an error and they were just delivering another receipt notice.

Also, the fact that even a Tier 2 said that my case is still pending, makes me think it wasn't my GC yet, but I guess I'll have to wait and see. I haven't received any approval notice in the mail and no case status update after saying that they are holding my "document"(?) for 180 days.

Hello everyone,

I also filed to remove condition back in December 2018 but with a waiver. I would like to follow this thread given the similarities since this is anyways related to I-751.

Thanks in advance for your help.

My last update from USCIS was when they sent the 18 months extension letter in January 2019. However, last week I received the following email:

*** DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS E-MAIL ***

There has been a recent processing action taken on your case.

Receipt Number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Application Type: I751, PETITION TO REMOVE CONDITIONS ON RESIDENCE

Your Case Status: Card/ Document Production

On June 14, 2019, the Post Office returned your document for your Form I751, PETITION TO REMOVE CONDITIONS ON RESIDENCE, Receipt Number XXXXXXXXXXXXX, to us because they could not deliver it. We will hold your document for 180 days or until December 11, 2019. Please go to www.uscis.gov/e-request to request that we re-send the document to you, or contact the USCIS Contact Center at www.uscis.gov/contactcenter. If you do not submit an online request or call us by December 11, 2019, we will destroy your document and you will need to file a new Form I751, PETITION TO REMOVE CONDITIONS ON RESIDENCE, with fee. If you move, go to www.uscis.gov/addresschange to give us your new mailing address.

This step applies to applications that result in an applicant receiving a card (such as a "green card") or other document (such as a naturalization certificate, employment authorization document, travel document, or advance parole). Applications will be in this step from the time the order to produce the card/document is given until the card/document is produced and mailed to the applicant. You can expect to receive your card/document within 30 days of the approval of your application. If you do not receive your document, please contact our National Customer Service Center at 1-800-375-5283.

I am very confused. does this mean my case is approved? I haven't received any approval update. I contacted USCIS but they say my case is still being processed. I spoke with a Tier 2 but they didn't give me any additional information. I submitted an e-request and they just said that they will review my request and let me know if they need anything else from me.

I did my biometrics last month. However processing times for these cases are around 15-24 months, so I was wondering if this is just a system error on their side, especially since my address on file is correct.

It'd be helpful to hear other people's experience with these kind of updates.

Thanks!

Littlefrench

11 minutes ago, Sarge2155 said:

I think you are posting in the wrong thread this is for K1s!!!!

You are right! Sorry I got confused. Good luck everyone!

Hello everyone,

I also filed to remove condition back in December 2018 but with a waiver. I would like to follow this thread given the similarities since this is anyways related to I-751.

Thanks in advance for your help.

My last update from USCIS was when they sent the 18 months extension letter in January 2019. However, last week I received the following email:

*** DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS E-MAIL ***

There has been a recent processing action taken on your case.

Receipt Number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Application Type: I751, PETITION TO REMOVE CONDITIONS ON RESIDENCE

Your Case Status: Card/ Document Production

On June 14, 2019, the Post Office returned your document for your Form I751, PETITION TO REMOVE CONDITIONS ON RESIDENCE, Receipt Number XXXXXXXXXXXXX, to us because they could not deliver it. We will hold your document for 180 days or until December 11, 2019. Please go to www.uscis.gov/e-request to request that we re-send the document to you, or contact the USCIS Contact Center at www.uscis.gov/contactcenter. If you do not submit an online request or call us by December 11, 2019, we will destroy your document and you will need to file a new Form I751, PETITION TO REMOVE CONDITIONS ON RESIDENCE, with fee. If you move, go to www.uscis.gov/addresschange to give us your new mailing address.

This step applies to applications that result in an applicant receiving a card (such as a "green card") or other document (such as a naturalization certificate, employment authorization document, travel document, or advance parole). Applications will be in this step from the time the order to produce the card/document is given until the card/document is produced and mailed to the applicant. You can expect to receive your card/document within 30 days of the approval of your application. If you do not receive your document, please contact our National Customer Service Center at 1-800-375-5283.

I am very confused. does this mean my case is approved? I haven't received any approval update. I contacted USCIS but they say my case is still being processed. I spoke with a Tier 2 but they didn't give me any additional information. I submitted an e-request and they just said that they will review my request and let me know if they need anything else from me.

I did my biometrics last month. However processing times for these cases are around 15-24 months, so I was wondering if this is just a system error on their side, especially since my address on file is correct.

It'd be helpful to hear other people's experience with these kind of updates.

Thanks!

Littlefrench

3 minutes ago, Russ&Caro said:

The USCIS took action on your case and sent you a document describing the action, but the Post Office could not deliver it to the address you have on file with USCIS. Do you still live at the same residence from which you filed the i751? Do they have more than one address for you, for example did you have one address for your k1/cr1 and then a different address for i751? Has your mailbox been removed such that a postal carrier can no longer find it?

 

No matter what the reason, the post office didn't deliver the document so you have to go online at the linked web address and make an e-request to receive the document. You have until December 11 to do this.

 

Note: you have not been approved. You have to take the above action of they will abandon your application.

Thank you for your answer. Well, on my file there is my lawyer's address and so far all communications have been sent there, and nothing changed. Only thing I can do is that they mailed something to my first address (where I was living with my ex-wife). They actually sent there the reminder to file for ROC once, that then they resent it to my correct address.

What is confusing to me is the case status : card / document  production.

This is not a status used for request for evidences or other letters. This is a status for people whose application has been approved (unless there was a system error of course).

Hello everyone,

thanks in advance for your help.

I am currently a conditional resident. I got divorced last year and filed to remove condition with a waiver based on both divorce and abuse (extreme mental cruelty) back in November 2018.

My last update from USCIS was when they sent the 18 months extension letter in January 2019. However, last week I received the following email:

*** DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS E-MAIL ***

There has been a recent processing action taken on your case.

Receipt Number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Application Type: I751, PETITION TO REMOVE CONDITIONS ON RESIDENCE

Your Case Status: Card/ Document Production

On June 14, 2019, the Post Office returned your document for your Form I751, PETITION TO REMOVE CONDITIONS ON RESIDENCE, Receipt Number XXXXXXXXXXXXX, to us because they could not deliver it. We will hold your document for 180 days or until December 11, 2019. Please go to www.uscis.gov/e-request to request that we re-send the document to you, or contact the USCIS Contact Center at www.uscis.gov/contactcenter. If you do not submit an online request or call us by December 11, 2019, we will destroy your document and you will need to file a new Form I751, PETITION TO REMOVE CONDITIONS ON RESIDENCE, with fee. If you move, go to www.uscis.gov/addresschange to give us your new mailing address.

This step applies to applications that result in an applicant receiving a card (such as a "green card") or other document (such as a naturalization certificate, employment authorization document, travel document, or advance parole). Applications will be in this step from the time the order to produce the card/document is given until the card/document is produced and mailed to the applicant. You can expect to receive your card/document within 30 days of the approval of your application. If you do not receive your document, please contact our National Customer Service Center at 1-800-375-5283.

I am very confused. does this mean my case is approved? I haven't received any approval update. I contacted USCIS but they say my case is still being processed. I am waiting to be contacted by a Tier 2 (hopefully he/she can tell me more) and I also submitted an e-request.

I did my biometrics last month. However processing times for these cases are around 15-24 months, so I was wondering if this is just a system error on their side, especially since my address on file is correct.

It'd be helpful to hear other people's experience with these kind of updates.

Thanks!

Littlefrench

On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 12:51 PM, username_taken said:

Also because you filed under abuse waiver your case is now considered confidential (more so then usual) and the phone reps can NOT give you any information on your case, neither can infopass. All correspondence needs to go through VSC- thats why the phone rep told you to write them but you really dont have anything to write them about do you? If you want to know if you are in removal proceedings (which you probably are not) you can call the 800 number for that. Use google as I dont know it off the top of my head but its a special number for the courts to see if you are in the system. 

Hi, what's the source of this information? Where di you read that VSC processes abuse waivers?

On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 5:08 PM, mindthegap said:

I-751s are adjudicated on the evidence provided, regardless of whether joint or waiver filing.

The burden of proof is on you as the petitioning alien.

 

However, should you receive a denial for lack of evidence (and you would more than likely be called to an interview first before this), in court for a removal hearing the burden of proof then switches to USCIS to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was not a bona-fide relationship and marriage, and that it was entered into in order to circumvent or evade immigration law. 

 

In your circumstances absolutely anything would be helpful - any photos, chat logs, phone bills, trip tickets, junk mail- absolutely anything that shows any part of a shared life, however minor it may seem.

Hello, sorry to correct you also here and don't take it personally but this is another mistake that many people, not only you, do.

First of all the burden of proof is ALWAYS on the alien, even in removal proceedings. The only thing that changes is that in removal proceedings USCIS has the burden of proof that you are deportable under US immigration law (e.g. you are not a US citizen, you were born abroad, etc.). The alien has still to show that didn't enter the marriage in bad faith. This will be always on the alien. The only time that USCIS has to prove something is in case there is an immigration fraud allegation. Immigration fraud has to be specifically mentioned in your denial and it's not automatic (meaning a denial of your petition doesn't mean that you committed immigration fraud).

Second, in immigration nothing has to be proven "beyond any reasonable doubt". This is not a criminal court so the standard of proof used is usually "preponderance of evidence" or the higher "clear and convincing evidence" (this one is for example for people getting married in removal proceedings). The only situation where something has to be proven beyond any reasonable doubt in an immigration related case, is during a criminal denaturalization action.

Hope this helps

1 hour ago, mindthegap said:

 

Divorce is not a sole reason for denial of an I-751.

Divorcing after filing a joint I-751 but failing to request a waiver of the joint filing can lead to denial as the petition cannot proceed without it, but that is not the same thing. 

 

The fact remains that the underlying I-751petitions are adjudicated by USCIS on the evidence provided and divorce is not a sole reason for denial.

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, I have zero experience of a) multiple I-751s, b) divorce after filing jointly c) requesting a divorce waiver d) denial e) refiling, and I clearly have no idea what I am talking about, haven't amassed and delved through the detail of thousands of pages of relevant USCIS documents, anecdotal evidence and case law, and I enjoy sharing fake news and mis-information for fun.

 

 

 

 

 

you just confirmed what I was saying. It's true that USCIS can't deny if the couple is just separated or has initiated divorce proceedings. But can deny a joint petition if the divorce is finalized before the interview.

Infact

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 2:13 PM, mindthegap said:

Unlikely...but you would be lying to USCIS which is not wise and can cause you massive issues further down the line, with a citizenship application for example.

 

You need to notify them. You can remain as a joint filing if you wish.

Should be noted that divorce is not grounds for denial -  filings are adjudicated on the evidence provided, whether joint or waiver.

Mindthegap I don't know who told you this but you are sharing a lot of wrong information.

Divorce IS ground for a denial if you filed the I-751 jointly. Once the divorce is finalized you MUST switch to a waiver. 

However, if you have separated and the divorce is not finalized yet, and your soon ex-spouse is willing to cooperate, you can still file jointly but in this case the presumption of bad faith is very high.

It's always advised to file the I-751 with a waiver if you decide to get divorced.

2 minutes ago, Boiler said:

You seem to have received responses from a variety of posters, for free.

yes, and yours were the least useful ones

2 minutes ago, Boiler said:

As you have one of the most respected Lawyers in the country working on your case why are you asking here?

I said about my lawyer because I want to specify that I didn't wake up yesterday and decided to go this route just for fun.

At the same time, this is a free forum, and I'd like to hear other people opinions. These opinions shouldn't be limited to comments like "change lawyer", without an explanation of why. 

Or "millions of Americans are depressed". 

Thank you everyone for your replies. While I appreciate to hear different point of views, and please keep giving me your opinion, I would like if you guys could give suggestions based on experience and taking into account the immigration law and the way it's applied. 

Now, I would like to mention that the fact that millions of Americans suffer of depression, it's not relevant. Major depression can be a disability, and for these waivers they have to consider the state of mind of the alien before and after the marriage/abuse. Suggesting to have police reports, evidences of physical abuse, etc. violates not only the "any credible evidence" standard that is applied to abuse waivers and VAWA, but also the intent of Congress to protect people subject to abuse. 

Again, the idea is to check both boxes (divorce waiver and abuse waiver) to maximize approval chances. USCIS will evaluate first my evidence for the abuse waiver. If they think I will not satisfy the abuse requirements, will evaluate my case for the divorce waiver. The law clearly gives me the chance to check every applicable box, and if an officer asks to pick only one, this is a violation on their side, unless I'm missing some memorandum.

One last thing, to the people that commented change lawyer, etc. The lawyer that is assisting me with the case is one of the most respected in the country for this kind of waivers (prefer not to disclose the name), so again, avoid no-productive comments. 

2 minutes ago, Waittrain said:

You already done with interview?

I was referring to the AOS interview from 2 years ago. I will file for the I-751 waiver next month.