martindart

martindart,

In a tropical country like Vietnam, one should also change clothes daily (if not twice daily) so that they don't stink. (I'm surprised that your fiancee didn't call off the engagement by the end of the 2nd day.)

Yodrak

Well ladies and gentlemen it's Bob Hope Ever heard of showers Bob and muti set of clothes Bob? OUT YOUR A**

...

I was in VN for 20 days. I wore a suit and tie during our ceremony and all the others day I wore my carhart clothes. All, if not most of our photos taken together in VN visiting all the sites/landmarks days and or nights together I was wearing my carharts... Word to the wise: CHANGE CLOTHES DAILY WHEN BEING PHOTOGRAPH of you and your fiancee taken together that you plan on presenting at the time of interview.

Stay happy and Healthy when waiting..

Hi martindart,

How did they interpret your video of speaking Vietnamese?

I have no idea? I sent the video to my fiancee and she delivered it to HCMC

Do you communicate in Vietnamese with her via webcam and Yahoo Messenger?

some simple words in Vietnamese most time in English.

How did you meet her?

Met her online at a website called Vietsingle in late 2003

No, Yet we seem to understand each other for the past 2.5 years. She does understand English text "somewhat" well. We chat to each other daily since 2004 via web cam and yahoo messenger. I just bought her a computer for her home so she does not have to go in the rain anymore. That was the consulate first reason to deny was her lack of English speaking skills, and then, and then, and then they just keep adding reasons and forgeting the pattern. My Senator is involved, my congressman too. One Senator come to my home. That was a surprize!

Perhaps they received an electronic notification from the NSC about the reaffirmation of your case, but have yet to receive the physical paperwork on it. If I remember correctly, that is how the consulate is notified (electronically first) of the approved case once it arrives at the NVC, and then they await the physical case file that is shipped.

Consulate worte to me today via email after waiting 7 days sice I wrote to them about the status of our petition and said we have yet to recieve your reaffirmed decision from NSC. How do they know it was reaffirmed ?

STL_HCMC

Hi martindart,

So does your fiancee speak English? Were they not satisfied with her English?

No, Yet we seem to understand each other for the past 2.5 years. She does understand English text "somewhat" well. We chat to each other daily since 2004 via web cam and yahoo messenger. I just bought her a computer for her home so she does not have to go in the rain anymore. That was the consulate first reason to deny was her lack of English speaking skills, and then, and then, and then they just keep adding reasons and forgeting the pattern. My Senator is involved, my congressman too. One Senator come to my home. That was a surprize!

Consulate worte to me today via email after waiting 7 days sice I wrote to them about the status of our petition and said we have yet to recieve your reaffirmed decision from NSC. How do they know it was reaffirmed ?

STL_HCMC

She was given the blue paper and they (consulate) asked me, to send them, a video of me speaking Vietnamese (Fiancee said I did ok B+) she bias of course. I learned of the 8 people reason when I got the written letter from the consulate about 6-7 months after they denied her.

I feel for you guys, and have no advice. BUT your advice about the clothes is good. I don't know what is going on with some of those consulate guys... that is discussion for another thread... but it would seem you really have to put on a 'show' for them.

When you think about it, that guy could have easily been fooled by a scam marriage if someone met thier scam-fiancee for one day and wore 10 different sets of clothes. Makes you wonder why a guy would base an important decision like that on clothing... but he did and I suppose everyone needs to comply.

During our Interview my fiancee presented 52 photos and the consular officer choose only three and took them. Many of these photos were of our ceremony in VN. In the consular report that denied our petition he wrote it appears the ceremony had only 8 guests. In reality, we had over 60 people present I sent along other photos showing many more people in the back ground to disprove what the consular office said. I also had all my fellow employees at the Elementary School where I work sign a signiture petition endorcing the fact I world marry my fiancee within the required 90 days of her arrival. I believe this new information insured Nebraska Service would reaffirm their decision (as they did) those 40 signitures helped.

Was she given a blue sheet at the time of the interview and that is when they said there were only 8 people at your cerimony? Was she outright denied at the interview or did they ask for further evidence?

She was given the blue paper and they (consulate) asked me, to send them, a video of me speaking Vietnamese (Fiancee said I did ok B+) she bias of course. I learned of the 8 people reason when I got the written letter from the consulate about 6-7 months after they denied her.

Hi martindart,

Going through the K-1 visa process at the US Consulate in HCMC as well, I found your post interesting. I would be interested to hear more details (i.e. reason for denial, evidence you submitted, etc.).

If you haven't already found it, there is a regional forum with a wealth of specific detailed information about other Vietnam VJ members going through HCMC. Come on over and have a chat with us specifically. Perhaps we can help you out, or you can offer us some further details about your case!

Link: Asia: East and Pacific (Except China)

STL_HCMC

Yes, This information I posted has nothing to do with IMBRA. My point is Petitions do get returned and to simply file a new K-129F and fail again is heartbreaking. Should it happen, and it will to some... you must be ready to fight back because if you don't the fight back the reason why a consulate did return petition will haunt the next K-129F and be denied again for the same inital reason.

Hello STL_HCMC

Found my way here. I have to go to work now and I check back here again after work today.

martindart

There are no procedures for what happens next after you are denied and the petition is returned. Unlike the inital K-129F it is all spelled out, easy to do, customer service to call, easy to check the status of ones petition via a recept number. all the doors of information are closed once you are denied. I don't want anyone to go through what I am going through. Some attorneys feed on this and get you to pay thousands of dollars from you after you get the news from your fiancee and the consulate wont talk to you about the matter they say; speak to your fiancee the matter is closed in our office. your fiancee wont know why... You have to wait (for me) about 6 months to get their report for the written reason(s) as per the guild lines I posted perhaps I should not have posted that information here but I wish someone shared this information with me so I was prepared for the worst and not so confident that just getting an NOA1 and NOA2, letter from NVC, My fiancee doing the medical thing, packets, passport and the bottom falls out because a consulate officer has a bad day at home.

Just be aware and ready. Don't count you chickens before they are hatched and be ready to celebrate or to fight back as I am now doing.

He posted this because his fiance's visa was denied at the embassy interview and return to the US for reprocessing because they suspected it was a fake marriage. Nothing to do with IMBRA.

Yes, This information I posted has nothing to do with IMBRA. My point is Petitions do get returned and to simply file a new K-129F and fail again is heartbreaking. Should it happen, and it will to some... you must be ready to fight back because if you don't the fight back the reason why a consulate did return petition will haunt the next K-129F and be denied again for the same inital reason.

There are no procedures for what happens next after you are denied and the petition is returned. Unlike the inital K-129F it is all spelled out, easy to do, customer service to call, easy to check the status of ones petition via a recept number. all the doors of information are closed once you are denied. I don't want anyone to go through what I am going through. Some attorneys feed on this and get you to pay thousands of dollars from you after you get the news from your fiancee and the consulate wont talk to you about the matter they say; speak to your fiancee the matter is closed in our office. your fiancee wont know why... You have to wait (for me) about 6 months to get their report for the written reason(s) as per the guild lines I posted perhaps I should not have posted that information here but I wish someone shared this information with me so I was prepared for the worst and not so confident that just getting an NOA1 and NOA2, letter from NVC, My fiancee doing the medical thing, packets, passport and the bottom falls out because a consulate officer has a bad day at home.

Just be aware and ready. Don't count you chickens before they are hatched and be ready to celebrate or to fight back as I am now doing.

VISAS - INFORM CONSULS

E.O. 12958: N/A

TAGS: CVIS

SUBJECT: SOP 61: GUIDELINES AND CHANGES FOR RETURNING DHS / BCIS

APPROVED IV AND NIV PETITIONS

1. Summary. Effective immediately, all immigrant, K-1 and K-3

visa petitions being returned with a recommendation to the DHS

Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (BCIS) for

revocation will be forwarded to the National Visa Center (NVC).

This cable provides guidance to posts on proper processing of

DHS petitions submitted in support of immigrant or nonimmigrant

visa applications. It cites and provides supplemental material

to already existing FAM procedural instructions. End Summary

2. Effective immediately, posts should forward all immigrant and

K-1/K-3 visa petitions being returned to the BCIS with a

recommendation for revocation to the NVC. The NVC has developed

a system for tracking all immigrant and K-1/K-3 visa petition

cases returned from posts with recommendations for revocation.

There are two reasons for the change in procedure. First, many

petitions returned to BCIS with recommendations for revocation

have been lost. In other cases, post has not received any

information from BCIS on the status of the revocation request.

The NVC will track all cases returned to BCIS and ensure that

the cases are sent to and received from BCIS in a timely manner.

Second, the NVC Fraud Prevention Unit intends to utilize the

data obtained from revocations to track trends for future

intelligence dissemination.

3. Revocation cases will be forwarded to the NVC for review and

data collection, and forwarded by NVC to the appropriate BCIS

Service Center. Cases will be returned from the BCIS Service

Center to the NVC and then routed back to the post of origin.

The NVC will follow up on cases lacking information from BCIS in

a designated timeframe. Please note that conforming changes will

be made in the relevant section of 9 FAM 42.43, N2, "When to

Return Petitions," N3 "Returning Petitions" and PN1 "Returning

Petitions for Possible Revocation" and 9 FAM 41.81 N6.6

"Additional Factors That May Raise Questions in K-1 Cases."

Nonimmigrant visa petitions other than K-1/K-3 petitions

returned with a recommendation for revocation will continue to

be sent to the appropriate BCIS Service Center.

4. All Immigrant and K-1/K-3 Visa Revocation cases are to be

returned to the following address:

National Visa Center

32 Rochester Ave.

Portsmouth NH 03801

Attn: Fraud Prevention Manager

5. Unlike consular determinations regarding visa eligibility,

which are not subject to judicial review, actions relating to

DHS petitions are potentially subject to administrative and/or

judicial review. The Department is regularly named as a co-

defendant with DHS in cases involving the return of immigrant or

nonimmigrant petitions to DHS. Therefore, it is particularly

important that consular petition adjudications are well

documented and clearly state the basis for the petition return.

6. In adjudicating visa cases involving petitions, posts should

bear in mind three important factors: A. the consular officer''s

role in the petition process is to determine if there is

substantial evidence relevant to petition validity not

previously considered by DHS, and not to merely readjudicate the

petition; B. the memo supporting the petition return must

clearly show the factual and concrete reasons for recommending

revocation (observations made by the consular officer cannot be

conclusive, speculative, equivocal or irrelevant) and; C.

consular officers must provide to the applicant in writing as

full an explanation as possible of the legal and factual basis

for the visa denial and petition return. Post must maintain a

copy of the returned petition, other evidence relevant to the

case, and a copy of the written notification of the denial.

No readjudication of petitions

7. In general, an approved petition will be considered by

consular officers as prima facie evidence that the requirements

for classification - which are examined in the petition process

- have been met. Where Congress has placed responsibility and

authority with DHS to determine whether the requirements for

status which are examined in the petition process have been met,

consular officers do not have the authority to question the

approval of petitions without specific evidence, generally

unavailable to DHS at the time of petition approval, that the

beneficiary may not be entitled to status (see 9 FAM 41.53, Note

2, 41.54 Note 3.2-2, 41.55 Note 8, 41.56 Note 10, 41.57 Note 6,

and 42.43 Note 2) due to fraud, changes in circumstances or

clear error on the part of DHS in approving the petition.

Conoffs should not assume that a petition should be revoked

simply because they would have reached a different decision if

adjudicating the petition.

8. When a petition is returned to DHS, if DHS concurs with the

officer''s recommendation, DHS regulations require DHS/BCIS to

provide the petitioner notice of intent to revoke, and to allow

the petitioner an opportunity to rebut the grounds for

revocation. DHS regulations require that, in the case of

nonimmigrant petitions, the revocation must be based only on

grounds specified in the regulations. Those grounds include

evidence that the statement of facts in the petition was not

true and correct, or that the approval involved gross error.

The FAM often only summarizes the petition approval criteria

because they are too lengthy and complicated to reproduce fully

(the H regulations, for example, contain about 25 pages of

double column material). Absent access to the full DHS

regulations, conoffs may not be aware of all of the factors

considered by DHS in approving a petition. In addition, conoffs

are normally less knowledgeable about the basis for petition

eligibility than DHS personnel; they therefore should not jump

to conclusions regarding petitions. In addition, conoffs should

return petitions only where there is specific, material and

clear evidence to provide the DHS a basis to initiate petition

revocation procedures.

Sufficiency of evidence

9. 9 FAM ''42.43, Procedural Note One states that when returning

petitions for possible revocation, "The original petition, along

with all supporting documents, shall be returned under cover of

a Form DS-3096, Consular Return/Case Transfer Cover Sheet, and a

memorandum supporting the recommendation for revocation. The

report must be comprehensive, clearly showing factual and

concrete reasons for revocation. The report must be well

reasoned and analytical rather than conclusory. Observations

made by the consular officer cannot be conclusive, speculative,

equivocal or irrelevant." The criteria cited in this note

derive from the Board of Immigration Appeals case, Matter of

Arias, in which the Board determined that the memorandum

supporting a petition return did not constitute "good and

sufficient cause" for petition revocation, because it consisted

of "observations of the consular officer that are conclusory,

speculative, equivocal, or irrelevant to the bona fides of the

claimed relationship".

10. Memoranda supporting petition returns should be scrutinized

carefully and objectively, bearing in mind that they may become

relevant in litigation. The memoranda should be based on

specific factual evidence, rather than conclusions, and should

be clearly reasoned. For example, a statement that unnamed

neighbors told a fraud investigator that a couple was not

married is likely to be viewed as of relatively little value

compared to a statement that names the neighbors, explains the

nature of their relationship to and knowledge of the couple, and

sets out the specific facts that led to the conclusion that the

couple was not married. Signed statements are of greater value

than second hand reports. Where a statement is prepared in

English by a non-native English speaker, it should be proofread

carefully. Posts can consult with CA/VO/L/A on cases where

there are questions or concerns over the sufficiency of evidence

cited in the memo supporting a petition return.

Notice to Applicant

11. INA 212(B) requires the conoff in most cases to "provide the

alien with a timely written notice that- (A) states the

determination, and (B) lists the specific provision or

provisions of law under which the alien is inadmissible." 9

FAM 42.81 Procedural Note one instructs the conoff to provide:

"1) The provision(s) of law on which the refusal is based; (2)

The factual basis for the refusal (unless such information is

classified); (3) Any missing documents or other evidence

required; (4) What procedural steps must be taken by the

consular officer or Department; and (5) Any relief available to

overcome the refusal."

12. There are legitimate reasons why in some cases a conoff

should not release all information relating to a visa refusal;

such reasons could include classification of the information,

confidentiality concerns, the need to protect an informant, or

the "third agency rule" (information from another agency should

only be released with that agency''s permission). However,

absent such considerations, conoffs should provide the applicant

with the full factual basis for a visa refusal, as well as a

reasonable opportunity to overcome the finding. This is

particularly important to ensure that the Department''s interests

are protected in any subsequent litigation. It is important

that conoffs maintain a record at Post showing that Post

provided a written notice of the legal ground for refusal to the

applicant, and, if possible, the factual basis for the refusal

(this will normally consist of a copy of the OF-194). Conoffs

are also reminded that in accordance with 9 FAM 42.81 Procedural

Note 9, and 41.53 Note 2.3, copies of returned petitions and all

other relevant material must be retained at Post.

Additional Considerations

13. Post''s requests for petition revocation are often based upon

investigation results. Consular managers should ensure that

their fraud prevention programs actively tie investigations to

legally-pertinent factual questions, and that they are likely to

produce concrete evidence. In other words, if an investigation

that confirms conoff''s suspicions will not serve to allow DHS to

revoke the petition, post is not managing its investigations

effectively. Posts can find useful guidance on managing

investigations and other aspects of fraud prevention at CA/FPP''s

intranet site at http://intranet.ca.state.gov/fpp/fpphome.htm.

In accordance with the guidance in 9 FAM 40.63 Note 10.1, where

there is evidence that the petition was approved based on fraud,

the fraud cannot be considered to be material until the petition

is revoked, and therefore while post can enter such cases into

CLASS as P6CI, post should not pursue a 6C finding until the

petition is revoked or abandoned. As stated in 9 FAM 40.4 note

10.1, post should be aware that any evidence presented to DHS in

support of a petition revocation may be passed to the petitioner

as part of the petition revocation procedures. Finally, Posts

should review 9 FAM 40.51 Note 10 on the handling of petitions

where there is evidence that a labor certification was obtained

by fraud or material misrepresentation.

I feel for you guys, and have no advice. BUT your advice about the clothes is good. I don't know what is going on with some of those consulate guys... that is discussion for another thread... but it would seem you really have to put on a 'show' for them.

When you think about it, that guy could have easily been fooled by a scam marriage if someone met thier scam-fiancee for one day and wore 10 different sets of clothes. Makes you wonder why a guy would base an important decision like that on clothing... but he did and I suppose everyone needs to comply.

During our Interview my fiancee presented 52 photos and the consular officer choose only three and took them. Many of these photos were of our ceremony in VN. In the consular report that denied our petition he wrote it appears the ceremony had only 8 guests. In reality, we had over 60 people present I sent along other photos showing many more people in the back ground to disprove what the consular office said. I also had all my fellow employees at the Elementary School where I work sign a signiture petition endorcing the fact I world marry my fiancee within the required 90 days of her arrival. I believe this new information insured Nebraska Service would reaffirm their decision (as they did) those 40 signitures helped.

The Consulate (after her Interview July 2005) returned our K-129F petition. Consular Officer said; We believe as reasonable people do, "NOT" anyway, They said we were trying to evade immigration laws and we have a sham relationship. As of June 12, 2006 I have received a DECISION letter from Nebraska Service Center STATING: After review of the record, including any responses you have sent to this office, the approval of the petition is REAFFIRMED and the petition has been forwarded to United States Consulate/Embassy at Ho Chi Minh City

What is the likelihood of the Consulate (Visa Unit) in Vietnam to now approve our petition? does anyone know, do we have a little better chance of them approving our petition or do we now have absolute approval?

Has anyone had to go this far for a K-129F? Our Notice of Action I-797C NOA2 receipt date is December 3, 2004

The Consulate sent our petition back to the SC who approved our petition in September 2005 and I got a chance to rebut the consular officers findings and recieved the reaffirmed decision letter from Nebraska Service Center on June 12, 2006 (you do the math on how long one MUST wait to resolve a matter like this)

I recieved the consulars report as to why it was denied and declared a sham relationship. They said because I was in my Fiancee company for 2 days only.

I was in VN for 20 days. I wore a suit and tie during our ceremony and all the others day I wore my carhart clothes. All, if not most of our photos taken together in VN visiting all the sites/landmarks days and or nights together I was wearing my carharts... Word to the wise: CHANGE CLOTHES DAILY WHEN BEING PHOTOGRAPH of you and your fiancee taken together that you plan on presenting at the time of interview.

Stay happy and Healthy when waiting..

The Consulate (after her Interview July 2005) returned our K-129F petition. Consular Officer said; We believe as reasonable people do, "NOT" anyway, They said we were trying to evade immigration laws and we have a sham relationship. As of June 12, 2006 I have received a DECISION letter from Nebraska Service Center STATING: After review of the record, including any responses you have sent to this office, the approval of the petition is REAFFIRMED and the petition has been forwarded to United States Consulate/Embassy at Ho Chi Minh City

What is the likelihood of the Consulate (Visa Unit) in Vietnam to now approve our petition? does anyone know, do we have a little better chance of them approving our petition or do we now have absolute approval?

Has anyone had to go this far for a K-129F? Our Notice of Action I-797C NOA2 receipt date is December 3, 2004

The Consulate sent our petition back to the SC who approved our petition in September 2005 and I got a chance to rebut the consular officers findings and recieved the reaffirmed decision letter from Nebraska Service Center on June 12, 2006 (you do the math on how long one MUST wait to resolve a matter like this)

I recieved the consulars report as to why it was denied and declared a sham relationship. They said because I was in my Fiancee company for 2 days only.

I was in VN for 20 days. I wore a suit and tie during our ceremony and all the others day I wore my carhart clothes. All, if not most of our photos taken together in VN visiting all the sites/landmarks days and or nights together I was wearing my carharts... Word to the wise: CHANGE CLOTHES DAILY WHEN BEING PHOTOGRAPH of you and your fiancee taken together that you plan on presenting at the time of interview.

Stay happy and Healthy when waiting..

Hi I was curious to know if anyone has an experience that they were involved in or aware of in which all the K1 Visa steps were completed and the petition was rejected at the interview. My Fiance and I are just waiting on the Interview (June 28th Warsaw) to wrap this up. I dont want to count my chickens before they are hatched but if we made it this far is it close to being certain we will get the K1 approved? Also is there any stats at this site which keep track of this sort of thing? Getting more and more excited as the day gets closer (I feel like a 6 year old waiting for Christmas)

Thanks in Advance

-Vtguy

We had our interview in July 19 2005. We had done all required for our K-129F. The consular officer denied our petition, said it was a sham relationship to evade immigration laws. (BS) They returned our petition to NSC. Yesterday, about 11 months after her inital interview, I recieved an e-mail from Nebraska Serivce Center NSC reaffirming there decision (approved our petition as they did before) perhaps my fiancee will be home by Chirstmas. The Consulate "now" is less likely to deny our petition again but, they have all the say if it's approved or not.

Where did you read/hear about the Expedited Service policies?

[/quote

I would have to search for it again...But I read that if you can show/prove an error on the part of the (in my case Service Center Nebraska) they will expedite the process. I'll look into it and post what I have found ASAP.

Being our petition was a Consular Officer requested return with intent to revoke our petition. We are now 65 days into the 110 maximum days for a decision from Nebraska. Nebraska did send us a re-affirmed decision letter in error… oops! Yes thanks, for pulling the plug… My question: Will we get expedited service? @ the Service Center, NVC, and finally The Visa Unit within the consulate who sends out the interview date. Or will we have to wait inline with the other poor souls…again, Forgive my venting… We have received our 3rd NOA # 3 a short time ago.

If all the K-129F application are put on hold filed after March 6, 2006 does this mean all the Service Centers, National Visa Center and Consulates now have more free time to address the backlog of approved petitions reaffirmed petitions filed in year 2005 and 2004?