Darrinos

Russ&Caro,

Thank you for your input! You mention a few things of interest. Is it possible to discuss in email one on one? And by the way, I'm so happy for you two! Glad that it worked out

I appreciate all of your input. Obviously, there are many more personal facets to this story (that I've not shared) that I hope will make a difference for her. Some of the "facts" that I've shared may be a little bit "altered" for privacy. I know that the officers are experienced and educated. I have no illusions about that. But truth is the truth, and it is her desire to get the degree, (not from 3rd rate university or community college), and start a business in her country. This is one of the potential questions asked, is it not? (How will your education benefit Indonesia when you return?) If saying "I hope to start a business" is not realistic, then why would any other answer be more so? Is "I want to get a job" any better? I can't see how it would be. Her conviction is to be truthful.

And yes, it is truly our intent to wait until her return to her country before filing for a fiance visa. Her business model nearly requires this, for various reasons. We are not in a hurry and want to do everything legal and right. Regardless, I appreciate your input and know that your questions only help prepare her (and others) for the questions and challenges that lie ahead.

Ret.... Her goal (and mine, to be honest) is that she return to Indonesia and start her own business. This is why she wants her education. After that is established, then we will look at the fiance visa. That's why we aren't ready to file for the fiance visa yet. Does the system not allow for actual plans like that? Are we required to get married and not have other plans before doing so? And, since you asked the question, she doesn't "need" a second degree, it's just that her first was in an area that her parents insisted. This one will be in an area that she actually wants. Seems like the scope of questions from immigration is very narrow. Am I correct in saying so?

But why would we apply for a fiance visa if that is not what we want at this time? If we apply, we have 90 days to get married. That's not our plan. This is the part of the process that becomes so frustrating, to be honest. And forgive my ignorance, but as a student, will she be required to list a fiance? I'm asking because I do not know.

Canadian Wife,

She hasn't been scheduled for the visa interview yet... she is currently taking an IELTS class to increase her English proficiency before she finishes her application. (She is nearly finished with a 70hr class that she has accomplished in a little over 30 days!) As for ties to her country... her children live there (1 in college, 1 lives with his Father), she has a good job, she owns property there, she is very active in her church and well connected to them... the usual. And yes, the program is with an accredited 4yr program. As I said, she's worked so hard to come get her education, and I just pray that it happens for her.

Boiler, she now has funds available to her as a student that were not available as a B applicant. (Without going into personal details.) When she first applied for the B, I was a bit uneducated in the process and sent her to the Embassy unprepared. We then reapplied within the next 60 days, which was a waste of time, so that's why she has (2) attempts. They rejected her on the ever popular intending immigrant suspicions when in fact, that was not her (or our) intention at all. Nevertheless, here we are, and once again hoping for the best.

As I said earlier, there will be more than sufficient funds available to prevent concerns about working illegally. And yes, she is going for the F-1. She is 47. When the time is right, we will definitely do things legally, the way the system is supposed to work. We value our relationship too much to take chances. We want to do everything the right way... heck, we may even decide to move somewhere else other than the US, but for now, she just wants to work on her second degree. Thanks for all the help!

Unauthorized work concerns will not be an issue. As part of getting the I-20, she must, of course, show that she has financial sponsorship/support. The bank statement will more than satisfy any concerns about that. Past reasons for denial were concerns that she was an intending immigrant. It seems like it's a nearly impossible system and if you continue to try, you are punished for trying. But if you don't try, you'll never know. It seems that the I-20 and the acceptance letter from the University should carry some kind of weight, but maybe not. Thanks for your answers and time.

My fiance is applying for a student visa here in the US. (Yes, I know she can apply for a fiance visa...) I have a couple of questions though, that some of you might be able to answer. Her desire to be a student is legitimate and not some way around anything. But we have concerns...

First, she has applied for a tourist visa (2) times in the past, but it's been over a year since the last denial. Will these denials hurt her chances of getting a student visa? Also, if she is denied a visa even with an I-20 from a US university, does this also harm any future chance of getting a visa? Lastly, because she is an adult and not a student in her teens or 20's, is it then harder to come to the US as a student? She's really put a lot of work into this and I hope that she's able to come here to study. It's one of her dreams and I'd love to see it come true.

My attorney says that denials don't look good on her record, but most people in here say you have to keep trying, and are rarely ever successful until the 3rd or 4th attempt. She's changing her reason for coming here, and I wonder if it's better, worse, no difference.... it's all quite frustrating and confusing.

Thanks!

I'm sure that's the case, Boiler. But we're not trying to skirt the system or pull any tricks. We're trying to use the system as it's meant to be used.... legally. (Unless I'm not seeing something obvious???)

DaveSana,

In complete truth, yes, I believe that they would give her the tourist visa. Our love is real and can be proven. Her ties to her community are real and can be proven. Our intentions are sincere, honest and pure. As I've posted before, when we choose to marry, we would then follow the fiance visa process. Neither of us wish to do anything illegal as we do not want to compromise our future together. It's really frustrating when you try to do everything correctly, you're right. And still, it's what we must do. I wish there was a way that immigration could look into a person's heart and see their intentions. I suppose that's what they're trying to do, but it doesn't always work out very well.

Thanks for your empathy. I truly appreciate it.

Exactly. That's why I want her to remain consistent and honest. If nothing else, she will be able to show them these two things, and maybe... just maybe, that will play in her favor. Honestly, we really don't know what else to show them other than the truths that she can document.

Truthfully, nothing but time. She STILL has the same job, she STILL has children, she STILL owns property, she STILL has money in the bank, she STILL has strong ties with her church and community, she STILL can show she's visited many countries and returned....and she STILL wants to visit the US as a tourist. I mean.... what else could change for the better? I want her to be consistent and truthful in all she says and does, and I'm afraid that changing her story just for the sake of getting the visa wouldn't be a wise way to go. I've thought about having her tell them that I'm no longer "part of the picture" because she told them she wants to visit me, but would prefer that she stay honest and consistent with her reasons.

That's what I meant... a business/professional style.

Yes, I agree. In fact, it may even help that she still has the home and has not divorced yet. I was talking with an attorney the other day and he said that when an applicant mentions children, this does not convince the officer at the embassy that they will return because, sadly, people leave their children often. He said they are more influenced if the person says they have a dog! Lol. I'm going to focus on her property, her account, and her strong ties to her church where she serves on several committees and attends several times per week.

I'm going to encourage her that for each question she offers a document supporting her answer. "Do you have a job?" Her reply would be, "Yes, and here's a copy...." , and so on. I'm torn though on her appearance. She is very attractive and while most men like to see pretty women, they might also be inclined to think this is even MORE of a reason that she would not return. I want her to dress nice, but conservative. Definitely a "hair UP" situation.

Nope... still waiting for her property to sell and the real estate market is not so good right now. We are in the "gathering stage" for the K-1 visa.

Ok, so we're going back to the embassy for the 3rd try for the visitor visa. Since our last visit, she has also applied for the diversity visa, and I am in the process of working on the K1 visa as well, but haven't filed it yet. (Trying to cover all the bases.) I'm wondering if there are any "tips" for this third attempt? I know, I know... just do the fiance visa, etc. We are... but in the meantime, she would like to visit so any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated. Seems like more of a "campaign" than anything else.

Maybe... it was quite a surprise since i had just been there in December and March without issue. Oh well... try again.

The official reason was "immigration reason". Not very helpful. Many opinions, but nothing substantial.

$70 allowed me the chance to see her 3 separate times, deliver my gifts to her, and have dinner. Well worth it after such a flight.

Yes, that is understood. We both know she can't come here yet, but it is as you say... we aren't the ones who need convinced. That is the task at hand; to prove our true intent.

Boiler... you miss the point. It's not a week's vacation, it's a week with the one you love... the one you adore. I recently flew there to see her and was turned away at the airport. Through much discussion and bribery with security (their suggestion, not mine), i was able to see her for 1hr and had dinner together at the airport after 21hrs on the plane. I would gladly do it again, if I had to, just to be next to her. So, long flight? Maybe. But to be with her for an hour or a week...I'd crawl there.

Yes,it's been 6 months now. As for an itenarary, that might be helpful. But she isnt the kind of "bubbly" woman who go in and just start randomly start talking and making up ideas. She is very matter-of-fact. She will simply say visit friends.

I have done a lot of reading since her last attempt and hopefully this will increase the odds.

Would be so great if she could come for 1 or 2 weeks and then return home. Then I could go see her next time, and so on, until ready for fiancé visa. We will put together a realistic itenarary to present on her visit.

Yes,it's been 6 months now. As for an itenarary, that might be helpful. But she isnt the kind of "bubbly" woman who go in and just start randomly start talking and making up ideas. She is very matter-of-fact. She will simply say visit friends.

I have done a lot of reading since her last attempt and hopefully this will increase the odds.

Would be so great if she could come for 1 or 2 weeks and then return home. Then I could go see her next time, and so on, until ready for fiancé visa. We will put together a realistic itenarary to present on her visit.

_{Harpa, yes, that's the information that I read, but it seems much higher than that... at least in our experience. And yes, she has friends here, indeed all over the world. A lot of her friends ended up marrying men on other countries. This is how she has friends in the US. One needn't visit a country to have friends there. Her story hasn't "evolved", it's remained the same all along. However, your point is well taken about being transparent. I've encouraged her to do so and believe that she has.}

_{USMSBOW.... sure, I understand. Thanks to those who do not have purely innocent intentions, those who do experience difficulty. It's just the way it is.}

_{We'll try again in November or December... it's been a few months since she tried last.}