steve55

You may find this shocking but I agree with most of what you've actually written. If two people agree they're going to see how it works out for X days before they actually marry, that's an honest and valid approach. If one person leads the other to believe they are committed to marriage, then on the sly uses as much of the 90 day window as possible to snoop and test their partner to find reasons to break their promise to marry, that's not honest. It's treachery.

I don't really care what the government's intention was/is either but since I know the intention wasn't a trial period, I'm going to disagree with anybody who says otherwise to justify misleading a fiance(e).

I would say that if either partner is being dishonest, then you have bigger problems than worrying about how to use the 90 days. Both dishonest is even worse.

BINGO!! Exactly. As long as there is honesty about how each partner sees it, thats what matters.

In my case, my fiance knows the score and that I do really want to marry her, BUT, she also undertsands we havent been able to spend alot of time together which we will be able to do once she gets here and then see how we do when we are here in the USA together. Honesty and truthfulness is the key. If all goes well as expected, we will marry.

BUt, even this very website VISA JOURNEY says the following about the K-1

May allow for a "get to

know your fiance better"

period before marriage,

since the visa is good

for 90 days.

So,.....lisa, why dont you send the owners of this forum an email and correct their erroneous ways of thinking?? (LOL). he he he. Sorry babe, but the writing's on the wall,..so to speak

Straight from USCIS....yellow and red emphasis mine

http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/A2.pdf

kthxbye!

As I already said, you are technically correct. I said that much already. You have to tell the government what they want to hear, rather than approach things with realism and common sense.

OBviously there are two points of view. There is the legal one as per Lisa's quote form the USCIS, and then there is the REAL LIFE point of view that is supported by most immigration atty;s and experts on the subject such as visa journey.com

So LIsa, will you be emailing the VISA JOURNEY owners to correct their erroneous info??? You can send them your picture link here with your evidence of what the USCIS says about it. Hmmmmm?? They may listen to you

BUt, even this very website VISA JOURNEY says the following about the K-1

May allow for a "get to

know your fiance better"

period before marriage,

since the visa is good

for 90 days.

So,.....lisa, why dont you send the owners of this forum an email and correct their erroneous ways of thinking?? (LOL). he he he. Sorry babe, but the writing's on the wall,..so to speak

DIRECTLY FROM VISAJOURNEY.COM!!! (for godssake, the most popular visa website admits as much)

http://www.visaservice.com/k1_vs_k3.shtml

You bring your love one to the U.S. as your Fiancee, and both of you have 90 days to get married. This allows you both to get to know each other better and make a decision about whether you want to spend the rest of your lives together

CORRECTION -Mybad, I thought it was visa journey, but its visaservice.com, a similar visa website as visajourney

to Tmma, and everyone else who said the exact same thing as we did :P

Sorry Lisa and some others, but Read em and weep.

It wasnt hard to locate these EVIDENCES that some of you folks are WAY OFF. The Links are provided along with my hilighting of what is said in the link. The evidence cant be any more clear!! Even the great website visa journey clearly states that the 90 days IS FOR MAKING SURE marriage is right for both of you and not because of how long a wedding may take to plan out. Its for the girl's benefit also. One link below even goes so far as looking at the historical perspective of spousal immigration and how the 90 days was created by the US govt so that the girl can be sure its right for her too. IT IS INDEED A SORT OF FINAL GETTING TO KNOW YOU PERIOD before taking the plunge. See links below. This is not just my opinion, the notion is supported by immigration attorneys (who know the law) and visajourney .com!!

http://www.thailand-lawyer.com/visa_immigration.html

This depends entirely on your individual situation and preference. The K-1 fiancé(e) visa allows both you and your fiancé(e) the opportunity to see if you are suitable for married life in the US together. If a marriage does not occur your fiancé(e) must return to Thailand within the 90 period of the visa.

DIRECTLY FROM VISAJOURNEY.COM!!! (for godssake, the most popular visa website admits as much)

http://www.visaservice.com/k1_vs_k3.shtml

You bring your love one to the U.S. as your Fiancee, and both of you have 90 days to get married. This allows you both to get to know each other better and make a decision about whether you want to spend the rest of your lives together

http://usaimmigrationattorney.com/K-1Fianc...pousalVisa.html

You don't need to marry immediately in your lady's country or the U.S. You bring your lady to the U.S. as your fiancee, and you and your fiancee secure a 90 day courtship window to marry. This allows you both a greater opportunity to know each other and make a better decision about marriage, which for most people is a very important life decision.

http://www.ecosea.com/eco/HTM/The%20USA%20...and%20visas.htm

Unlike marrying abroad, this allows the couple to live together in the United States and the fiancee to experience what life will really be like before the marriage.

http://www.fiancee-visa.info/ (This shows WHY the 90 days was created!!)

The fiancee visa to a large extent solved, or at least greatly reduced the severity of these problems. It allowed the foreign fiancee to enter the U.S. first and to have up to 90 days to marry her American citizen fiance. If she married him within the 90 days, she could stay in the U.S. forever. If she decided that she no longer wanted to marry her fiance sponsor, she only had to depart the U.S. prior to the expiration of the 90 day period and she would still be eligible for another fiancee visa with the same or a different fiance. Also, the fiancee visa was much faster to obtain than a spousal visa.

http://www.familyliteracyinnys.org/2007/10...safiancee-visa/

It also allows her to do things like meet your family and also allows her to see if she will like it here in the United States.

SOrry Lisa dear, but it just aint happenin the way you and some others like to believe.

Using the 90 days as a trial period with somebody who gave up their whole life and family back home is treachery, IMO, or just plain selfish. One who does that is no prize.

Well then she or he doesnt have to go!!! DUh. No one is holding a gun to her head. As long as there is honesty and no deception, and it is discussed with your partner up front , and that partner understands it, then I dont get what the problem is. That may be your way of thinking but does it make it right?

Anyways, we all just sharing different opinions here

If you have doubts beyond the things we can never forsee then you should not be petitioning for a fiance visa.

I think it depends on how you define doubts. My fiance arrives Friday(2 days from now). I DO INTEND to marry her but I ALSO feel there is a necessary "to be sure" period for both of us. If thats what you call doubting, then ok. SO be it. I hope and plan for the best, but am dam glad I do have the time to be sure. Everyone has their own opinion and thats fine. BUt I dont believe the part about"then you shouldnt be petitioning" is nuts.

(Oh and please note that as part of the application process you state your INTENT to marry your fiance(e) within the 90 days, the application does not cater for those who are still thinking about it.)

What about those who INTEND to ,...ASSUMING all goes well?? Does the "if all goes well as planned" mean you are "still thinking about it"? This phrase can be interpreted in so many ways.

You can bet your azz that if you said it was a ''trial period' or 'cooling off' period, that you'd never have gotten approved.

Lisa, technically, you are correct. And thats because the government is backwards ### half the time. We all know that dont we? This comes back to the old rule, "say what they want to hear". Its the rule in life much of the time in order to arrive at common sense outcomes. Many immigration atty websites specifically mention the 90 days as a "make sure" time period. Its 100% unrealistic to not do so.

AGian, just my humble 2 cents worth

Again, the point many people miss is that the 90 days is NOT A GET TO KNOW YOU PERIOD! You should have already done that!

If anyone has serious doubts....jeeez, would it be such a stretch to FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE MARRYING before you petition your gov't for this person's admission into the country? Let alone all the upheaval to the foreign fiance.

Sorry Lisa, I couldnt disagree with you more. Most of us have no more than 2 weeks vacation per year. So thats maybe 3-5 weeks time together in 2 years? Thats nothin. Give me abreak. It MUST and NEEDS to be a get to know you period. 2-3 weeks aint enough. And please no one say,"then wait 4-5 years to fit in 6-9 weeks". Thats not realistic nor feasible. You really need to spend time together in the same environment where you will be living as a married couple. a few weeks per year just doesnt cut it. Im sorry.

Just my 2 cents worth

WOW! I was worried based on other posts in here that maybe they started enforcing the IMBRA more strictly now. BUt, I just got my waiver approved without being asked for RFE or intent to deny. This fiance is my 3rd in 4 years, AND, I have not had 2 years elapse since my last approval. My case is pretty IMBRA hard core all around, but its approved. For those who want to know, I filed Feb 1, 2006, it went t o CSC, and just today I got a plain letter on white paper notifying me of the approval. Usually, I just got a NOA2. BUt not this time.

And funny thing is, when I go to the USCIS case status online, it still comes up as in processing. Anyways, this letter states the national visa center has recently recieved an approved I-129F petition, and its from the bureau of counsular affairs, whatever that is.

I wonder whatever happened to the NOA2?? Strange.

You stated you filed feb 2006 and your posting is dated may 2007, so this means it had taken over a year to get your I 129F approved?

Oops, that should have said Feb 2007. My bad

Keep us posted how it is going but my bet is that it will go into Administrative Review while it is at NVC. I hope not but you should know soon.

Well, looks like it sailed right through. My fiance had her interview yesterday. They gave her the standard pink slip and adviseed he r to pay at the counter. She does need to come back with a updated NBI and passport. I think its because she did a name change years ago from genicel to jeanizle and perhaps not everything matched up.

If they admin reviewed her, I would have thought she would have been advised something like" wait till you hear from us" and would have been given a 2nd slip(white one from what I hear) I think.

They didnt say anything to indicate she was going in review. We both think she only needs to send them the updated stuff.

WOW! I was worried based on other posts in here that maybe they started enforcing the IMBRA more strictly now. BUt, I just got my waiver approved without being asked for RFE or intent to deny. This fiance is my 3rd in 4 years, AND, I have not had 2 years elapse since my last approval. My case is pretty IMBRA hard core all around, but its approved. For those who want to know, I filed Feb 1, 2006, it went t o CSC, and just today I got a plain letter on white paper notifying me of the approval. Usually, I just got a NOA2. BUt not this time.

And funny thing is, when I go to the USCIS case status online, it still comes up as in processing. Anyways, this letter states the national visa center has recently recieved an approved I-129F petition, and its from the bureau of counsular affairs, whatever that is.

I wonder whatever happened to the NOA2?? Strange.

I am getting read to under go the same issue with visa request. I am in the process of filing a 129f, which I had one approved last Dec, but it didn't workout so she returned home. Can you reply with what format you used for the waiver and the process you used?

Thanks!!!!

You just type up a letter with "IMBRA Wiaver Request" as the subject title. Explain what happened and if possible, provide evidence supporting what happned and why it didnt work out. I provided all my x fiances namd am email and ph# and their emails and yahoo chats of them admitting to backing out on me. IMBRA is looking ofrr guys who abuse the system. If you show you acted in good faith and things just didnt work out, you are fine

I just sent in my third I-129f one week ago. This is my third petition and I wonder if this new law will affect me? I met this girl 10 years ago (1997) and we met three times total before deciding to do the fiancee visa. Shortly after I filed it, she had a family problem come up that would prevent her from coming to America for an indefinate period of time. I was dissapointed but, life goes on. I went back to Russia again and met another girl. I filed another petition and she came to America, we married and are now divorced after 6 years of marriage. After the divorce, I decided to try to find the first girl and find out what happened to her and her family. As it turns out, her family problem had been resolved and a few years later, she had met an American man, got married, came to America, got divorced and went back to Russia. So now we are both single and we have met twice more and are very happy about starting up the process where we left off ten years ago. My concern is, how will this fly with the I.N.S.? (BCIS, USCIS or whatever they are calling themselves these days) Both of those other petitions were filed before the new law took effect. The last time I filed was 1999. In my eyes, none of this should matter, in fact, since I am filing for the same girl "again" it should go in my favor! I guess that time will tell all.

P.S. Of course, it should be needless to say that do not have a police record and I did not abuse my ex-wife and she is still here in America. So, I am clear as far as, what seems to me, to be the real intent of the law. Also, my lawyer included a waiver letter with the petition explaining all the details.

Read my post in here labled "IMBRA approved". I dont think your situation is the kind they are looking out for.I just got past the IMBRA with a 3rd K1 petition in about 4 years!!! Now if that isnt cause for hope, I dont know what is. Seems everyone is getting approved though. I think they are only using the IMBRA for what appears to be mal intent filers or those who are abusing the system by bringing the girls over and just sending them back. IN my case, neither of the other 2 girls made it to the USA, so , its not like I am just using and abusing them for 3 months and sending them back. I provided proof they left me and not me leaving them. If your story sounds legit, you should be fine. Im starting to see they are sniffing out the bad guys w/ the IMBRA.

WOW! I was worried based on other posts in here that maybe they started enforcing the IMBRA more strictly now. BUt, I just got my waiver approved without being asked for RFE or intent to deny. This fiance is my 3rd in 4 years, AND, I have not had 2 years elapse since my last approval. My case is pretty IMBRA hard core all around, but its approved. For those who want to know, I filed Feb 1, 2006, it went t o CSC, and just today I got a plain letter on white paper notifying me of the approval. Usually, I just got a NOA2. BUt not this time.

And funny thing is, when I go to the USCIS case status online, it still comes up as in processing. Anyways, this letter states the national visa center has recently recieved an approved I-129F petition, and its from the bureau of counsular affairs, whatever that is.

I wonder whatever happened to the NOA2?? Strange.

All ties into the feminsits move to label american men who marry foreigners as buying sex slaves or conducting in human trafficking. Thats what the IMBRA is all about. 95% of us suffer for the bad deeds or sensationalized stories of a few bad apples.

If you want to get a really good idea about how Evangelical "Christians" joined with the far left to get IMBRA passed, read the following excellent article:

http://www.seattleweekly.com/2004-08-25/ne...olitionists.php

It is quite simple, "trafficking" is narrowed down to "sex trafficking" which is conflated with all prostitution resulting in policies like US AID being given only to those countries that outlaw prostitution (do the bidding of Americans on moral issues) after which prostitution is conflated with dating websites and a law is made to regulate dating...after which anyone at all who wants to bring a foreigner into the US gets harrassed.

It is all quite logical. So logical that the kind of people in the above article lost the 2006 elections and will lose the 2008 elections.

This type of person keeps changing the goalposts showing why we need to elect people who have the attitude "no new laws".

A good book to read on this subject is "The Elephant in the Room" which describes civil war between conservatives and libertarians inside the Republican Party.

Most of this article is about christian/feminists groups parading around in foreign countries like some kind of American Cowboys coming to the rescue or save these girls from prostitution and also pointing fingers and criticizing these countries governments for not stopping the prostitution industry. Yet they offer little in solving the problems that cause it. Unless they offer continued support for these girls they claim to be saving, what good are they really doing?? These rescued girls will be back in the same game again because they have to survive, or for many, rather than working in a low paying clothing store or local mall, they simplychoose to work in the bars . Ive seen it over and over again in the Philippines. These self proclaimed do gooders need to offer continued support after the so called rescue if they really want to back up their talk. This was a little off subject, I know.

[ Someone dumping you is not a reason to waive the imbra or a break up. It doesnt matter if you have evidence. Its not a reason. Reasons are death.... sickness.. etc. So do not expect to get your waiver.

While it is certainly possible for individual adjudicators to make that interpretation, the portion of the memo to which you refer, gives two examples that are on far ends of the spectrum. The memo makes it clear that death or other circumstances making it impossible for the beneficiary to come to the US and marry the petitioner is sufficient grounds to grant the waiver. The next example used refers to 12 petitions filed, indicating a pattern of behavior that is clearly not acceptable. This leaves a broad range of possible scenarios where any individual adjudicator may decide to draw the line. Unfortunately, appealing these decisions when necessary, can take significant time.

The problem is that they dont tell you what you can and cannot do to appeal it if anything. In my case, all the paper said was the whole ineligble because of IMBRA. I had enclosed a waiver... they ignored it and asked for another one... they only gve me like 10 days to respond and I am really nervous and upset now. my fiancee and i are looking into marriage much sooner than expected because of all of this... we wanted a beach wedding now I have to find out a way to get civilly married and quickly so I can do the K3... I didnt bring 12 women here.. I never beat up anyone or went to jail and now because of this poorly written law gues s what? I will have to apply for a waiver with the k3 or god knows what.. I am so depressed... so so so depressed

I feel your pain and unfortunately don't have a solution you don't already know about. I'm just discussing subject matter and disagree that others should expect the worst case scenario because you didn't experience the best case scenario.

The USA , the land of the free,....NOT!!!! Thanks to that ###### maria cantwell. Messing up innocent people's lives

Hey Kat!

Yes, it does get frustrating these days when all you want to do is be with the person you love. I can understand your frustration and your desire to do whatever you have to in order to be together. Keep me posted and I hope things go well for you.

I keep hearing about people spending 10 months, or two years in A/R. It gets a little disheartning for me too but I try to keep my hopes up but not get to disappointed if it does take a while. The worst part is not knowing and the difficulty in making plans. Right now we are talking about trying to live togehter in Barbados starting next month.

FWA,

LOL

Yeah,,, welll I leave for ALGERIA on wednesday and I am super depressed about this K1 thing. I wish I would have just saved my money and waitied but I felt like I had to something in the 5 months we have been apart.So its off to TUNISIA to try to get married now

There ya go. Thats what ya gotta do. This IMBRA law is a major screw up by the US govt. It is hurting mostly good people. It is only a political feel good law. They are hurting honest good people to prevent only a very few bad apples from abusing the system. More and more the USA is turning into a controlling entity representaitve of communism where people are not allowed to pursue freedom and happiness.

I too will simply have to marry in the pHilippines if I get my waiver rejected. Its a sad sad day when the USA is becoming a abusive controlling government.

You can thank Mari Cantwell and ####### larsen for this major ###### up

See

http://www.immigration.com/newsletter1/IMBRA072106.pdf

WHat I gather from this is that

1.the IMBRA doesnt apply to K-3's.

2. And this memo seems to give complete leeway to the USCIS officer to make his/her own decision about whether a waiver should be granted(except not in criminal history cases). The key thing in this USCIS interoffice memo is the petitioner providing supporting evidence as to why the waiver should be granted. It seems you cant just ask for it, you must explain your poor luck hardship situation that made this situation no fault of your own.

Ive been monitoring everyone's waiver results, and so far, all have gotten approved waivers except one recent member here saying they are getting a intent to deny letter. This is the only case I have seen that is running into difficulty. So, Im not so sure if they are merely starting to strictly enforce the IMBRA or whether this petitioner had very limited supporting evidence as to why they should be given a waiver.

I have had 2 fiances in the last 3 years and so I sent in proof of my fiances letters,amails , and faxes clearly written by them explaining why they changed their minds on me(too young), and I even provided both of their phone numbers in case the USCIS officer wants to call them to verify my story. My fiance is 32 and I am 39 and neither of us have ever been married, so if ever there was a case for approval, Id think ours is it. There's no freaky age difference , and she is clearly a humble, very plain looking girl, not a racy potential bar girl type. But, we'll see. Its been 3 months and Ive heard nothing yet. I included the waiver request in the petition but I only hope they dont ask for it again like what happened to another member here. That must really suck to get asked for it again!!