Protocol417

I seem to remember lots of predictions = ACA is nothing more than a deliberate fail to force Single Payer system coz already past the point of no return.

As much as there is a sliver of me that almost wishes that was true, think about it for a second.

If you were trying to sabotage a program so you could scrap it and try something else, you would give it a good start, and put in a system so that it fails years down the road. You wouldn't sabotage it right away. The only thing that would accomplish is to completely destroy any credibility you'd have to the point where your ultimate goal wouldn't have a single chance.

and although the Liberal elite in Hollywood, and democratic controlled unions have the resources to help the less fortunate, they cling tightly to their wallets and scream, its the governments fault I pay so little in taxes.. Liberals demand the government do more to help the poor, and they also demand tax loopholes, exemptions, ect... in order to benefit themselves..

I'll admit, I'm not too up on the comings and goings of the "Liberal elite in Hollywood", so help me out a bit. Got an example or two of what you're talking about?

I've been on this website for a bit at this point, and I don't know if it's just because people are trying to stay positive or what it is, but while I've seen people discuss everything from politics to how lucky everyone with such-and-such processing center is to how little certain people do research and numerous other oddities of conversation, I have yet to see anyone post anything about how their "visa journey" has affected them emotionally or even, as does apparently happen, medically.

I was reading a forum post earlier that was about how the NBC is processing I-130 applications extremely slowly right now. At one point, someone said to me (paraphrasing) "You just can't explain what the cr1 process is like to a k1 person". I wanted to take a crack at it, to see if there really is that much difference between two groups of people in long-term long-distance relationships, but I deleted most of it because it was ridiculously off-topic (and a bit too emo as well, I guess ).

Here is the part I removed:

If I had to venture a guess, I would say it involves countless lonely nights, frustration and disbelief over just why and how you could possibly still be apart, feeling like that day will never come, that this whole red-tape-strewn process is just your life now, that you're being put through some kind of cruel test, or that you've been abandoned, simultaneously feeling that it's been a lifetime while also being amazed at how quickly time used to pass compared to now, until the passage of time holds almost no meaning, and how much slower it inexplicably gets the closer you are to the finish line (which is crushing because every cell in you hoped and prayed it would be the opposite), worrying constantly if you're strong enough to make it, or if you'll be the same person when you're there, feeling so much older than when you started, facing family and friends who are sympathetic but quickly change the subject (or even worse, the countless times you've been asked "so when on earth is _____ going to be here?"), dealing with stress, depression, anxiety, panic attacks, trouble sleeping, personality changes, moments where you break down because you glimpse something that brings back a memory, moments you break down for no reason at all, that pang you get when you see other couples, feeling absolutely incomplete, like there's a chunk of you missing and you're basically just going through the motions until you get it back. Knowing in your head that some day it will be over, but in your heart it feels like it won't. And then the fear... probably different for each person, maybe fear that the relationship will crumble under the strain, or that when that day comes it won't be as good as you'd hope, or that it will fail.

Or the absolute worst: Knowing your SO must be feeling all this too, and you can't do anything about it. You can't hold them until they feel better, or grab their shoulders until they feel strong, or take them out to get their mind off things. You know you're supposed to, that's your job, but all you can do is talk, and feel helpless.

So, as a K-1 person, how did I do? Did I get close?

********

So I thought I would bring it here, a place that is perhaps a little more... erm, appropriate, I guess?... and see what your thoughts are... if you agree with it, if it matches how you feel, if you've experienced any of the things I describe here, and how your own experience with this maddening thing has been. I hope that no one has every experienced ALL of these things (wow, that would suck) but I would find it hard to believe that anyone here has gone through none of them.

I am sorry i didnt mean it directly at you. All i was saying is its useless trying to explain cr1 situation to k1 person because they are totally different. My comment was about all the k1 ppl who think they know how other feels. Sorry for misunderstanding. And i dont mind seeing k1 getting approved faster i just dont like how uscis ignore cr1 but thats not fault of k1 person so i cant blame them.

Well, we're all in long distance relationships, and I would venture that most of us, CR-1 and K-1 alike, know precisely what it feels like to spend so much time apart, or at the very least have very little difficulty understanding what it feels like.

I'll admit, it's the ones with kids I really have trouble with. I'm not even a very maternal person, but I cannot imagine what kind of hell that is like.

Makes me wonder: Why would USCIS knowingly give preference to K-1? Politically you'd think the CR1's would have more clout ("family values" and all that). Do we pay more in fees or something? Do K-1s tend to come more from allied countries? Maybe I'm just not being creative enough in my thinking here... I'm just stabbing in the dark for reasons why it would be structured that way.

Under Obama care do women have paid leave?

Ummmm... what?

Not trying to be mean or anything but talk is cheap, only the person who is going through this inhuman process understands the pain, but its a public forum and everyone is entitled to their opinions. Good luck in your journey. Lets get back to the topic of USCIS instead of K-1 vs CR1

Except where I asked someone in another thread how the post-NOA2 process compares, I haven't said a word about "K-1 vs CR1", so I don't understand why this comment was directed at me.

So far as the USCIS is concerned, I've said everything I need to on that. The disparity between the processing times is terrible and wrong.

I second what LoveInBrazil said. I'm a long-winded person and I tend to bombard people I know with details. If there's a blog out there or something that someone knows about which explains the process, what people have to go through, that can be posted and shared, that would be neat. Because most people have absolutely no idea.

Coming on a tourist Visa for purpose of marriage is fraud

This is what I mean by confusing. I believed this wholeheartedly when we started and for a good while after (one of the many reasons we chose the K-1 route, as I mentioned before) but I've had multiple people tell me that it's not precisely true. Some have said that if you come into the country on a tourist visa with evidence of ties to your country, get married, then leave and start the CR-1 process properly, you are fine. I've even heard that you are not required to tell the customs officer you are getting married (that you're only required to inform them if they ask you). Others say this isn't the case, it is fraud, period, and you could get banned for up to 10 years.

I don't think the married couples are more legitimate, more power, or more painful. (Unless there are kids involved, then yes, it is way more painful than people with no kids. That doesn't mean your pain is invalid, it just means that carrying your own pain, plus the pain of your little ones is worse than just carrying your own.)

Marriage might just be a piece of paper, relationship wise, but it's also a legal contract. As such, there is a legal commitment there that someone coming in on a fiance visa doesn't have. For instance, when I moved to the Netherlands, our relationship was filed as a civil union. So we were living together, etc, but it could be dissolved immediately by either party without having to go to court. We were only entitled to those assets that we brought into the relationship, etc. As a married couple, we would need to divorce in the court (thus dissolving the legal contract between us) and split up our marital assets 50/50 because that's the way the law works in that country. Fiance's do not have that legal contract in place, is all that I'm saying. And I think that having a legal contract should work in the favor of those who are married, which does not seem to be the case, currently.

I don't think that fiance's should be slowly adjudicated. I think they should hire more people and speed up the process for all of us.

And if you want to get married, you don't need a fiance visa to do so. You can do it on a tourist visa, you just can't adjust your status or immigrate. My husband and I got married here in NJ while he was on a tourist visa, and then we went back to the Netherlands. You only file for the fiance visa if you're planning on immigrating. Yes, you need to adjust status afterwards, but you get to stay with your spouse while you're doing it. I really do understand, I've done it, and it sucks having to go through that, but it's a completely different kind of suck when your spouse can't even visit you (without a serious chance of being denied entry) for months or possibly years.

But I honestly don't blame the K1's. Not one little bit. I'm jealous as all hell that they are getting their files processed so quickly. I miss my husband so much there aren't even words. I cry every day. My kids cry every day. And I HATE the USCIS for doing this to all of us. But it's not the other petitioner's faults.

I agree with pretty much all of this. But I definitely agree with this statement: All the files should be processed at the same speed.

The process is confusing, especially when you're first starting and deciding what you need to do, and there is lots of misinformation out there. When my fiance and I were looking at the options, it seemed to us that the CR-1 visa was intended for people who had met while one was living in the other country for a time (maybe on a student visa or something like that) and had already gotten married, and that wasn't us. Also, we were seeing stories about people getting turned away at airports because they were planning on getting married and therefore were seen as a risk in the US of having intent to immigrate (I'd been told a couple times while visiting in the UK point-blank in Customs "you are not allowed to get married while you're here" *lol*), and as such thought the CR-1 route was either not the correct visa for us, or carried too much risk. Right now, it's kind of a moot point, because it would be stupid to throw out all of the work we've done and money we've paid to get married and start over. We are so close, relatively speaking. Had I known the things I know now, we may have made a different decision (actually, we may have decided just to move to the UK instead of the US, but that's another topic entirely).

What you've said, though, is much more fair, and I appreciate it.

Luckily it's a bit clearer and simpler now.

Two things to note:

- Notification of Applicant Readiness Form - not linked, but it can be found here: http://london.usembassy.gov/iv/notification_of_applicant_readiness_form.html

- Medical - They still have this as step three, but it seems it can be done concurrently with step 2. Many people do the medical before sending anything back to the embassy, but some have said that if the medical arrives before the paperwork it can confuse them and something might get lost. I'm not sure how much truth there is to that, though.

That said, the process so far still seems to be about the same as what is listed above, except for the DS forms. Oh, and when you call the NVC to get the LND#, you can ask for the beneficiary and invoice numbers then, too (this is needed for the DS260, if memory serves). We're still at step #6 though.

Married couples are started their life but fiance are jus gonna start their life after they marry. thats the only reason. Preference can be given to one who already started. coz the pain is more for married couple. They shouldnot end up their relationship while the CR1 is on process. the legitimate relationship is more powerful n committed one than fiance visa applicants.If fiances breaks up the relationship, they wil be still single n can get another fiance. but for married couples, if they ends up the relationship, their status wil be changed to divorced. I dont want this to happen to married couples when CR1 is on the process. If they live together , the interest n intimacy wil be increasing. It decreases the divorce case. they can stay , committed with the relationship. I jus dont want USCIS to be the root cause for couples getting divorce. Any more explanation u want?

My fiance and I have also "started our lives" together. We make daily decisions together, "landlord" a house together, make financial decisions and plans together, are each others' legal beneficiaries, cry when we're missing the other, feel like throwing things at the wall when we hear of yet another delay, support one another, and do everything that a married couple who lives 4,000 miles apart and is also trying to be together would do (except on top of all of that, we also have to try to plan a wedding when we have no idea when we'll be able to get married). That stuff is already happening. It's not like we live completely separate lives until one day we get this magical piece of paper and suddenly our lives are joined. They are already joined. We have already started our lives together. Or as much as anyone can from this distance.

I agree that USCIS should not be a root cause for divorce, but it ALSO should not be a root cause ANY couple to split. The end result is the same: Two people who were in love are now going their separate ways. I don't want that to happen to anybody.

I've been married before, I know what it's like from both sides. Marriage is not a magic wand that amplifies the pain of being separated. It's a piece of paper. Being separated from the person you love is being separated from the person you love, period. And if my fiance and I were to split up for some reason, it's not like I'd just shrug my shoulders and "get another" fiance (any more than you would just turn around and "get another" spouse).

I am very sorry for the couples here that have to be separated for so long, and it does appear that CR-1s have to wait longer and there is no excuse for that. It should be equal. Loved ones should be reunited at the same pace.

But the things you've said here about being "legitimate" and "more powerful" or that you experience "more pain" are pretty darn offensive, especially when the only reason we're not already married is because we're waiting for the government to let us!

Nope, after the NOA2 is issued it's pretty much the same (minus the fact that CR-1s need to file an AOS. Actually, I think it's shorter for K-1s after they get their NOA2 because they don't spend a lot of time at the NVC from what I've read, and also get to schedule their own interview date, which CR-1s aren't allowed to do. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. The NOA2 part is the one that causes CR-1s to be so slow because right now it's taking anywhere from 12-16 months, whereas K-1s are getting their NOA2 in 2-3, it appears. Terrible is an understatement for the current state of I-130s.

Depends on what "a lot of time" means. I honestly have no frame of reference here because I haven't been involved in the CR1/IR1 process at all. For K-1s, my understanding was that NVC doesn't actually do much with the approved applications except forward them to the embassy. Despite this, it still took 1.5 months for us, which is about 3 times what the turnaround used to be.

But no, we don't get to schedule our interview date. If you call the embassy, they will say they can't help you and you need to complete an online inquiry. You do that, and a week or so later you just get a canned response that basically says "wait for your letter".

When I was in the NOA1-NOA2 phase, it was about 3-6 months for NOA2. We got ours in 4, which was nice, we were on track to make our wedding day at that point, so we started with the wedding planning, which ended up being a bit of a mistake. The instructions say that it goes really fast after you get your NOA2 but actually, for us it's been longer (or, rather, will have been longer once we complete this part) than the processing at USCIS. Because of the ever-shifting schedules and delays, we've had to keep scaling back our wedding plans to the point where we can basically get up and married with at most two week's notice, which means our venue is... not precisely traditional (I really don't know how other people manage to pull off these huge traditional weddings when going through the K-1 process). This is making me extremely nervous, though; I'm worried that a really basic wedding in an unusual venue will throw up red flags when my fiance goes to apply for his green card.

Question about dealing with the UKBA as you mentioned: You said your "marriage visit visa". Is this just to let the non-UK citizen into the country to get married, with the intent of returning to their home country? Or was that for immigration purposes, too (like a K-1 ultimately is)?

I was wondering... how long is it typically between when you are "approved" under the CR-1 / IR-1 and when you get your visa? Because as a K-1, we were "approved" back in early August and it's still going to be about another two months before we get the visa, apparently. Is the post-NOA2 process similar between the two?

so what about me my wife she filler i-130 in 19-08-2013 and she got NOA 1 in 25-08-2013 i think it will take long time

we must be patiance ....and why K1 visa don't take time like CR1

I don't know very much about the CR1 process, but perhaps a reason that it looks like the K-1 takes such a short time because there are multiple steps. We were "approved" in early August, but it's still probably going to be another two months before we get the visa. Not sure if there are similar steps to the CR1, as well... in which case if there are, I'm really sorry Apparently there are more CR1 applicants than K-1s, which really surprised me! I thought it would be the other way around.

I hate it so much when people ask me "You got married? Why didn't she come back with you to the States?" Idiots, no one knows how completely useless, lazy, and badly-run the USCIS is! And no one understands that we have the worst immigration system in the world! If my wife was from a developed country I would never even think about bringing her to this rotting cesspool we call America!

Seriously I have no idea why someone married to a German, Canadian, or British citizen would want to bring their spouses to live here, this country sucks. If I could get work over there I would move in 1 second and never come back.

I'm a K-1 filer, and we've been doing this for over 6 months now and still have about another 2 months to go. Whenever I tell a friend or acquaintance about the process up until this point, they go all bug-eyed and say "I had no idea you had to go through all of this for citizenship!" I can't stop myself from bursting into laughter. No. This is NOT for citizenship. It's not even a green card... just a visa. The wait times for every step are amazingly long and the instructions on the website have been vague at best and flat-out wrong at worst. It's absolutely ridiculous.

We're now at the embassy stage. It took 6 weeks just for them to get our file to the embassy. And now we're being told that it will be another four weeks before we even know when his interview will be. It seriously takes them a month just to schedule the interview! Meanwhile we'll be watching our wedding date come and go with no visa

Honestly, I think we made our decision too quickly. I wanted to stay here because of my friends and community, he always wanted to live in the US since he was a kid, so the decision seemed like an easy one at first. The more time I spend in the UK and the more time he spends here, though, the less comfortable we are with that choice. Since we're so far into it, we're going to continue (I'm not quite ready to leave anyways) but we do plan on moving back to the UK in about 5-10 years.

Thanks for your comment.

The married single comparison is no more complicated than on average- when you break it down by occupation class and age, married men tend to earn more simply because they have more incentive. Also the single guy at 40 is more likely to be paying child support, perhaps alimony. This is a huge drain on his net worth and the ability to accumulate wealth to pass on to any kids he has.

And when you have the duel income married couple, then they have the benefit of one house payment, one electric bill etc, this is huge even over a ten year period.

My main point is for LOWER EARNING PEOPLE, since they are less likely to be married than well off people, the net worth gap will be heightened irregardless of what else is going on in the economy.

I predict we can look forward to an ever growing divide in class..... and this will be trouble.

I'm not addressing the ubber rich CEO's I mean between the basic well educated class and the working class.

I see your point about older men potentially owing alimony and child support. That isn't a contingent I had factored, so thanks for pointing that out. I'd be interested to know if income considered was before or after alimony/child support because that may also skew the "singles" numbers (I'll admit, I have no idea how that works, if it's taken out of people's paychecks or paid directly, and since I don't know where they get their numbers from that doesn't help me figure it out much). This part of the discussion almost sounds like a reason marriage might ultimately destabilize your income though

I mentioned this briefly in my last post that the chart didn't seem to have anything to do with skill level (I was implying that I didn't know why it was being brought up). I'm still a little unclear about that point. I mean, I get your point, that you think lower-income people are that way (or at least are that way more so than in the past) because they're not getting married, I'm just not sure I agree with the evidence presented. I am seeing articles discussing that lower-income people tend to put off marriage (makes sense) which goes back to the "correlation, not causation" I was discussing before (making more money = more likely to get married, as opposed to getting married = more likely to make more money). And I would still like to know how cohabiting adults are treated, since I'd imagine that's a fairly large chunk of people by now.

To be honest, the "basic well educated" class don't really seem to be doing too much better than the "working class" (depending on how you define the "working class" I guess). The chart we've been discussing had a range of between $30K and $90K as an average, and $90K between two people isn't actually that good. It's not that much more than what my ex and I made together when we were married, and although we lived comfortably, I would not have called us well off. Knowing that there are uber rich CEO's and the like mixed in those numbers, making them higher than they'd otherwise be... yeah, that makes me a bit more nervous *lol*

It's not about two working people earning more than one.... thats a given. It's about

The question is about why the lower skilled workers are making less A: they don't have the benefit of marriage that the earlier generation had.

Your sentence got cut off.

The trend apparently seems to follow from the 50s to today, except the numbers (and therefore gaps) got bigger, probably due to inflation, I'm imagining. (I don't think the chart mentions anything about their skill level, by the way.)

Also, it makes sense that this would occur. People who are unmarried tend to be younger, and younger people tend to make less money. That doesn't mean that marriage made them richer; it means time and experience did.

The chart tries to imply that being married makes you wealthier by comparing the income of a single male to a married male with a wife who stays at home, but this is not a fair comparison, and not just for the reason I just mentioned (single males tend to be younger than married males). Families with SAHM's typically have male heads of household who made more money even before the wife decided to stop working; this is why they can afford for the mother to stay at home in the first place, otherwise they'd be in the dual-income category. Correlation, not causation. If you took the males from the dual-income married category, separated their wives' income out, and added them in with the other married males to create one "husbands" category instead of two, I'm betting that line would dip closer to the single males' line.

It also doesn't say what they count as a "family". Is a cohabiting unmarried couple considered one "family", or two? Because if it's two, then of course the married couple will come out the rosier, since they're the only ones with a combined income, even though the living situations may be otherwise identical. That's just bad number crunching if that's how they did it.

For the record, I do believe marriage (or more importantly, child-rearing) does have a stabilizing effect. I just think the numbers are being compared in an incorrect manner to dramatize a preconceived point.

You mean when a family consists of two working adults instead of one, they make more money? Or that families with stay-at-home moms tend to be a bit better off (which is what allows the mother to stay at home in the first place)? I'm shocked, I tell you... SHOCKED.

Not a supporter of Obamacare myself, but c'mon. Reach arounds? Destroying America? Liberals suddenly think insurance companies are the best thing since sliced bread and hold no blame for our current failing health care system? Only winners are insurance companies? I agree, insurance companies get way more out of this than I'm comfortable with, but nobody else benefits from things like kids being able to stay on parents' policy until 26, pre-existing conditions no longer being a reason for denial, etc?

I'll keep pushing for single-payer. In the meantime, anything above and beyond that, unless someone gives me some actual facts here (charles! put up a great chart yesterday, for example), I'll reserve judgment until things have actually been implemented and we can see the full effects.

Dammit I can't watch the video

So what's going on? What's happened that made it a failure?

That is why I was saying earlier it is crazy for the Pubs to fight it. Sit back and watch the melt down that is coming. The Mid-Terms will be a blood bath if they can just put a muzzle on Ted Cruz and not give any rape interviews.

Agreed. Watch what happens, THEN react.

And yeah, Ted Cruz is just bad for everybody.

But until we constitutionally require the congress to meet their constitutional duty to produce a budget,,,by FIRING them if they don't...and having new elections, they will do this over and over. It sucks, but we let them get away with it and we give them more weapons to hit us with. I think we have "battered voter" syndrome.

Agreed. The whole "battered voter" thing is an interesting phenomenon... people give such low marks to Congress as a whole, but high marks to their individual Senator or Rep.

I find it odd that none of the Daily Kos Readers/Obamacare supporters have not chimed in on this. I guess they haven't signed up yet.

I don't qualify for the exchanges.

Although I'm neither a Daily Kos readers, or strictly speaking an Obamacare supporter either, oddly enough, even though I was all over the P&R forum on the 16th, I didn't once see this post.

What I was referring to Gary is that Pubs need to go about the business of protecting our civil liberties and bringing spending under control. They need to shut their yap about abortion, Gay marriage and all that ####### that keeps getting them in trouble and distracting from what needs to be done

Anybody with one eye and half a brain can see what massive govt entitlements have done to some minority groups and inner cities. Aid programs that require no conditions just perpetuate poverty not cure it.Anybody who thinks the answer for places like Detroit is more Govt money is insane.

They have also got face the fact that we have got to make Military cuts.We can't be the world police force any longer.We can't afford it

We have got to stem the tide of Illegal immigration, having 12 M illegals in this country working, while almost the same number are mashing their butts collecting benefits is insane

We have got to stop handing out Billions in foreign Aid.

Pubs have got to admit that health care is broken and that we need real sweeping radical changes, Obama careis insane but so is an 2000 dollar trip to the ER for four stitches and the massive burden of Administration we currently face.

I agree with at least half of this. Room for compromise!

With regards to the poor and government benefits, I would be interested to see what would happen if government programs were stopped, however, I would be terrified to force people to live through the potential real-world implications of such an experiment. I don't want to drag this country back to the 20's.

You make some valid points but the Federal govt has no business in our bedrooms our telling us who we can and can not marry . If Christians want moral change then do what the bible say and pray with fervor. Reach out to the world with kindness and humility. Spread grace with your actions..

Christians scream for prayer in public school, but many of those have not prayed at home with their kids ever. They want to change deviant behavior but all the do is condemn and harass those same people.

Another thing I agree with! I knew there was a reason I liked you

Yes there was but don't let it bother you too much that you weren't aware of it. The world is a big place and there are lots of opinions out there.

*lol* It was a joke Of course I'm aware that people watch (and did watch) MSNBC. I do like to tease them, though.