Bosco

Ahhh...feels like home again

Not a bad start for a monday morning. How come no one ever talks about all the AOS/Adjustment stuff that we have to go through once the SO arrives? I mean this week alone we drove out to meet the parents, have to go to the civil surgeon, the social security office, the literacy council, and made an info pass at immigration to once and for all try to deal with this EAD nonsense. And all the copies of the papers we have to xerox just to ge tthe packet together for sending in!

ETA: Oh an dfor those with SO's from Morocco, how come no one ever mentioned about getting the Registration card from the Moroccan consulate. Seems you have to have one if you want to renew your passport through NYC. One more little hassle we have to take care of.

What is going on with the EAD?

I never talked about AOS because he handled it by himself, aside from one ride I gave him to the civil surgeon. I had no involvement in the paperwork, getting copies or any of it other than the affidavit.

There is only 1 God. The Christian, Jewish, and Muslim people believe in the same One God but have differed with regards to other things.

Jews, Christians, and Muslims all believe in one God, but it doesn't follow that it is the same God. Christians believe that the one God is three Persons -- The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus is God in the flesh; fully Man and fully God. Islam explicitly denies both the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. Therefore, in spite of them both being monotheistic, Islam and Christianity simply do not believe in the same God.

Also, (and m&n would be well-advised to take note): Arya Samaj Hindus are also monotheistic, and hate idols--but they have no more connection with the Biblical God than the Vedas (which they use as their basis, disregarding the Puranas, etc.) have with the Bible.

(Arya Samaj is heavily represented in RSS/VHP/BJP top-cadres, though most of these are NOT educated in the Samaj's "DAV" system)

For Dean: Jews believe in the same God (as Christians), and even implicitly in the trinity:

• (Gen 1:26 And God said "Let US make man in OUR image..."
  
• Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, THREE men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door...
  
• Lots of mentions of "Angel of the Lord", which many Gentile Christians (and Messianic Jews) believe to be a preincarnate appearance of Jesus[/url]
  

Jenn is right on when she says this is an issue for debate...

This website has quite a different take on the use of "our".

Genesis 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; and Isa 6:8 are scriptures rarely used in this day to support the theory of a plurality of persons in the Godhead, and ordinarily, not used by one who is truly aware theologically for the reasons depicted below

And sums it up:

4. To write anything else into this scripture regarding the composition of God’s internal being based upon his use of a plural pronoun in referring to Himself, alone, or based upon the use of the Hebrew uni-plural noun in reference to God and other reverential beings, real or unreal, is pure speculation and borders upon reckless arrogance.

Sounds like the finish line is almost in sight! Great news!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7544360

Medieval Mosques Illuminate by Math

Criticizing a president.....especially the characters running the world these days......is completely different than criticizing a Prophet in a cartoon.

Notes:

• Only Muslims consider Muhammad as "prophet" (not recognised this way even by Mormons, or Hindus)
  
• To date, no Muslim has protested about the blasphemies made against Jesus (such as "Last Temptation...")
  
• Muhammad is dead, grave still occupied
  
• If you think that Joseph Smith or Brigham Young (both considered as LDS "prophets") are not criticised (even in US), you would be totally wrong
  

So why is criticising the long-buried "prophet" of one religion, in a country where that religion is NOT in a majority (and is also NOT where the majority of that religion live), wrong?

You are incorrect. Muslims have protested against blasphemies made against Jesus, although certainly not on the scale it was done in response to the cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad. The play "Corpus Christi" comes to mind. It depicted Jesus as a homosexual. Muslims were outraged and there was a fatwa issued by UK's Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed calling out the playwright for blasphemy.

Muslims also joined in Da Vinci code protests in India, Pakistan and other countries because of its portrayal of Jesus. The film was banned in Pakistan.

And there have been issues with Passion of the Christ and even Prince of Egypt in Muslim countries.

www.zabihah.com is a great resource for finding halal restaurants.

wishing all a happy wednesday.

anyone know what's up with jp? her account is disabled.

JP left because of you and GEG. She was tired of GEG's endless tirades, as well as you egging it on and coming here with no purpose other than to stir trouble. She feels this forum has become nothing more than a playground for the two of you to run wild in, she got tired of it, and saw no end in sight where GEG would give up her constant nagging and maligning of forum members or where you would stop trying to further it along.

I am only answering because you asked. This is not conjecture and JP has given me the go ahead to explain. Ewok can confirm these are her reasons as she explained her decision to him.

With so many recipes online, I find that I barely use my cookbooks. Maybe we could put a list together of good recipe sites.

Here on Earth: scroll down to "Arabesque"

Interview with the author of Arabesque, Claudia Rodin. Discusses the foods of Morocco, Turkey and Lebanon and the role of food in Middle Eastern life. (Aboujen... you may enjoy this one)

Share links to your MENA related podcasts: language, history, news, travel, Islam, etc. (calling Rahma )

The Arabic PodClass podcasts can be found here

LOL... there was one that was heating up a kettle on one of the propane stoves. He was sort of caveman looking. He proved that the water was boiling and then drank some. He then did some sort of crazy dance (knees bent, side stance and chest thumping) with some manly sounds, lol.

Did you get the papers in the mail yet about his background check?

We haven't received the letter in the mail yet. Once we get it, darn tootin I will be figuring out what's going on. Hoping this is something simple that can be resolved quickly.

I am going to PM you the name and number of the company that did it for the Target by us. I would think it is the same nationally. Maybe you can call and say that you haven't received the letter and see if it can be expedited. PM'ing you now.

Were the guys that drink boiling water there when you were there?

Our goal is to educate and provide general information regarding family and marriage based immigration (K1, K3, DCF, etc) for a spouse, fiance, parent(s) or other close relatives to reunite and bring together families. If you are new to the site please take a look at some of our site's great features such as the Guides, FAQ's, Forums, Gallery, Example Forms and more. We provide you with a great array of general information useful in filing your I-129f, I-130, I-134, I-485 and other USCIS and immigration forms. We encourage all members to seek a qualified immigration attorney as this site is no substitute for the valuable help and advice a good attorney can provide! Please also be familiar with the Terms of Service before using this site.

Once again, we welcome you and encourage you to become a member of our growing community! Share your experiences and relax here knowing you are not alone! Make sure that you also take the time to add your information to our Immigration Timeline section! -The Visajourney Family

is this not on the home page as a welcoming for all - (goal is to educate and provide information regarding family and marriage based immigration)

enjoy doddle would say break a leg but........

Thank you! That is how I read it, welcoming to all.

Argh... isn't this the type of thing that has recently driven off longstanding members? The henpecking of who should and shouldn't be here, how people should post, how many can post in agreement before it is piling on and all the other mini-moderating that has gone one? Is this really NEVER going to stop? Can we agree to leave the moderating to Ewok, or should we continue to drive people away? I for one miss those that are gone!!!

Nearly all of my pictures are on another computer and this one isn't particularly good, but it brings back memories. Oh, and I think the tea is hunja and the other stuff tkaout. I know hunja has cinammon and I think tkaout has ginger too. And as far as the tourists versus Moroccans things, I think it is more tourists in the early part of the day and more Moroccans later at night.

Oh there were oodles of what I presumed to be Club Med tourists when I was there.

I have pictures of myself and my husband with the monkeys and snakes. I have no idea what my husband paid Also went fishing for Coca-Cola, lol.

We stayed right at Djma El Fna, so we ate our evening meal there. You have to love how two people can get totally stuffed on $3. The one thing that bothered me was how the stall vendors would shoo away the people begging for our leftovers - we had no problem handing them over

I cannot remember what it is called, but the spicy hot tea (not the mint) that is served.... we ordered two cups one night and the vendor started telling me in a lurid way how it is an aphrodesiac and how it is late at night and I am there with a man. My husband did not catch what the guy was saying and I am glad he didn't or the police would have been involved

It is sad. Despite how touristy Djma El Fna can be, the storytellers are there for the Moroccans.

the story is also available to listen to online or download as podcast

The story-tellers of Marrakesh link

By Richard Hamilton

BBC, Morocco

In the Moroccan city of Marrakesh, you can still find men who tell ancient stories that have been handed down from generation to generation.

But with modern technology offering new forms of diversion and entertainment, young people are ignoring the story-tellers and for the first time in perhaps 1,000 years the tradition is dying out.

Legend has it that the muezzin - the man who called the faithful to prayer - at the top of the main mosque in Marrakesh had to be blind.

It was thought that a sighted man might gaze down from the Koutoubia, as it is called, into the sultan's palace below and see his harem.

But a sighted man would also see the wild teaming maelstrom of Marrakesh's main square or Jemaa al-Fna.

He would see fire-eaters and fortune-tellers, acrobats and snake-charmers. For all human life is here: if you walk into the square you will be besieged by men with monkeys and women trying to squeeze henna onto your hands.

And then there is the noise: the square is a cacophony of drums, reed pipes and songs performed by musicians from sub-Saharan Africa.

But if you can find a quiet corner in the square you might come across the city's hidden gems.

A Thousand and One Nights

He tells tales of sultans, thieves, wise men and fools, he speaks of mystics, genies, viziers and belly dancers

They may not be the most obvious entertainers and they are certainly not the loudest, but if you can seek out a story-teller or a halaka, you are in for a treat and an old one at that.

Because story-telling in Morocco is as old as the hills, and as ancient as the Atlas mountains.

I found Moulay Mohammed, a bearded man with a few missing teeth, sitting in the square in his grey jellabah surrounded by a circle of onlookers.

He is 71 and has been a story-teller for 45 years.

He used to come as a boy and listen to the old men in the square tell their stories and he was so entranced by them that he became one himself.

He says he knows most of the Old Testament and all of A Thousand and One Nights.

According to legend, to prevent her murderous husband King Shahryar from killing her, the Persian Queen Scheherazade told a different story every night for 1001 nights.

Moulay Mohammed is like a modern day Scheherazade: he tells tales of sultans, thieves, wise men and fools, he speaks of mystics, genies, viziers and belly dancers.

Under threat

Moulay Mohammed told me it is not just what he says that counts but how he says it.

Young Moroccans would rather watch TV soap operas than listen to a story-teller much less become one themselves

Even if you do not understand a word of what he says, it is still fascinating to listen to a halaka.

You can sense the drama of the story and feel its suspense. His words are precious and they seem to hang in the air.

Today more than 40% of all Moroccans are illiterate, so the oral tradition is vital.

Of course story-telling is a form of entertainment, but it is much more than that.

Like the parables of the New Testament, the stories are ways of conveying ideas, values and philosophies.

But all this is under threat. While there used to be 20 or so halakis in Marrakesh, there are now only about half a dozen and they are all old men.

After more than a millennium, the art of the halaka is on the wane. Young Moroccans would rather watch television soap operas than listen to a story-teller much less become one themselves.

Disappearing yarns

However the United Nations cultural organisation, Unesco, has intervened to try to save the stories as part of the world's oral heritage.

It is even recording some of them on the internet, so modern technology may yet come to the rescue of these wondrous tales.

I asked Moulay Mohammed if he would pass his skills on:

"If someone wants to come and learn from me they can, but it is not easy," he said. "It takes years to remember the stories."

And was he worried that his craft might one day die out? "Ah, only God knows the answer to that. Today there are story-tellers. That is all I know."

Another old man was sitting in the crowd hanging on Moulay Mohammed's every word.

Did he think the story-tellers would still be here tomorrow? "Moulay Mohammed is one of the best in Marrakesh, and we like him very much" he said. "But if he disappeared, a lot of his yarns would disappear too."

Google Earth

And what, I wondered, did Moulay Mohammed make of television?

"Television?" he laughed, "why it is something out of this world. This is real life here in the square. It is much better to sit in the square in the sun, as you are doing now, than in some dark room with a television!"

And sitting in the square under an azure sky, I thought Moulay Mohammed was probably right.

Looking up at the pink rooftops of Marrakesh, the Atlas mountains and the fabulous Koutoubia mosque, it was hard to imagine a place I would rather be.

There may not be a blind muezzin any more in the minaret of the Koutoubia but the story of the men who could not look down on the sultan's harem strikes a familiar cord now.

The Moroccan government has blocked the internet device Google Earth so that people cannot look from above into the grounds of the king's sumptuous royal palaces.

Perhaps in 1,000 years people will be telling a story about that.

From Our Own Correspondent was broadcast on Saturday, 17 February, 2007 at 1100 GMT on BBC Radio 4. Please check the programme schedules for World Service transmission times.

Three Ways to Listen From Our Own Correspondent

I have only known one couple where the man didn't insist his children be raised Muslim, and in this case he basically converted to Christianity himself. I do know a few couples where the man wasn't overtly religious (didn't pray, attend mosque, etc) where the children grew up with minimal teachings of both religions (basically the holidays).

Does anyone know any "religious" Muslim men who actually followed through with what they said before children and let them have a Christian or Jewish upbringing or the 50/50 concept that worked out to be anything more than secular observance of Christian holidays?

With all the bi-religious couples my family knew growing up, I really cannot think of one where Islam did not end up being the children's primary religion (whether or not the children were actively practicing is another issue). The first one I mentioned is in a Yahoo group I belong too.

VERY Important subject! My husband and I are both Muslim alhamdulah. I think that if I would not have reverted our life would really be a struggle. Not just with kids but our relationship with each other. But on the kiddo subject. I have a son who is not my husband's biological child. When he was the only one life was a bit easier and he sorta did his own thing (he's only 3). Obviously his diet was similar to ours and he did go to the mosque etc. Now that we have another child, who is my husband's biological child our attitude has changed. If we are going to be a family unity there has to be some continuity. I had to make this abundantly clear to my family who insisted my son was still Christian and should go to sunday school. In the long run, we will create and nurture an Islamic upbringing but ultimately I don't want to confine my children to one faith. I want them to explore and learn about all religions. I know that Christianity didn't work for me. I hope and pray that they love Islam but I'm not so nieve as to think that I can force them into faith. I am really thankful (honestly) that we did have another son as our discussions about a possible daughter sort of shocked me. My husband said that he would move back to Morocco with her and would never raise her here. It shocked me because he chose to marry me, an American, who was raised here and yet this country isn't good enough to raise our child? *sigh* We had some discussions about this but it didn't get to far because I get upset too easy! I think part of his issue was that he was still fresh to the country and his perceptions of a lot of things were skewed. I agree that if you are planning to have kids or already do you MUST talk to your SO about this issue. You might be surprised at what happens after they are born (both good and bad - my hubby refused to change diapers....he's a pro now! but shhh don't tell me MIL)

Does he cook? I often wonder if this is more common with men who view male/female roles as very specific, or if it is just about diapers/raising children.

This is a trend I've noticed as well. I do hope that everyone has had a children related talk with their SO.

And that both parties are forthcoming and honest about how they feel and don't feel it is something they can take charge of later.

OK, I don't rant here much so I'm stepping up on my soap box. My husband received his EAD in January and has been looking hard for a job. About a month ago he applied at Target, had 2 interviews and then 2 weeks ago was told to "Go buy your uniforms, you have and job and will start on Feb 20th and will be a department manager." COOL! Of course he had to go to the mandatory drug screening and such which isn't a big deal. He called them Friday to verify what time he's to start and was given the run around and went back in yesterday to ask them face to face when he is to start. I was standing a few feet behind him trying to go un-noticed and he turned to me and said "I don't understand what they are saying, do I have a job or not? So I step up and try to understand what's going on. They say now they will NOT hire him because of something that came up in his background check. HELLLLLOOOOO? We were on AR for 6 months for this B.S and NOW something comes up? I'm just pissed.....they tell him flat out to go get uniforms, have him do the state forms, etc and now this? I hate Target! Now I have a depressed husband at home wondering if anyone here will even hire him. He's always over qualified or doesn't have "enough teaching certifications here." BLAH OK.....rant off.

Oh this is funny, but not funny.... The same thing happened to my husband, 2 interviews, drug screening, etc. and was told he would start.

It turns out because he had no credit history, the background check came up as a high likelihood of SS number fraud. It is possible to resolve this when you get the papers in the mail. We didn't because he found a better job with full benefits while this was all going on.

I am assuming the same thing happened in your case. Did you get the papers in the mail yet about his background check?

Feb. 19, 2007, 8:15AM link

Refugee crisis looms for Iraq's neighbors

As the violence rages, hundreds of thousands have fled country

By GREGORY KATZ

AMMAN, JORDAN — Abdul Salam Alwan lives in the shadows, afraid to go out on the streets of Amman, the Jordanian capital where he and his family have taken refuge after receiving kidnap threats in Iraq.

His temporary visa has expired, his bid for residency has been stalled — as have the applications of hundreds of thousands of other Iraqis seeking to settle in Jordan — and he lives in fear of the police.

"I do not dare go out, because, if they stop us and arrest us, we will be deported," said Alwan, 42. "Jordan won't accept us, but some place has to accept us. ... All I want is the basic minimum — to have my kids in school and to be able to leave the house without fear."

The countries surrounding Iraq have been inundated with hundreds of thousands of people fleeing the sectarian warfare, with Jordan and Syria bearing the brunt. There is a growing recognition that a refugee crisis of alarming proportions is unfolding as Iraq descends into anarchy.

Roughly 1 million Iraqis are likely to abandon their country in the next 12 months if the country doesn't stabilize, the Geneva-based International Organization of Migration predicted. U.S. officials announced a new plan last week to take in 7,000 Iraqis and urged other countries to accept more refugees.

Jordanian officials warn that their country, a staunch U.S. ally, cannot absorb more Iraqis without receiving help from wealthy nations. Border controls have been tightened to slow the daily influx of frightened Iraqis.

Officials estimate that between 500,000 and 750,000 Iraqis are in Jordan, most of them without proper documents.

"Their main problem is the lack of legal residency status, which means they don't have access to education or health care and they can't work legally," said Robert Breen, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees representative here.

Most receive three-month permits when they enter Jordan and become illegal once those expire, he said.

"The Jordanian government has been very tolerant, considering that these people represent a significant drain on government resources," Breen said. "They have not been rounded up or harassed, although there have been some deportations."

The international community has neglected this problem because officials assumed that security would improve inside Iraq, drawing the Iraqis back home, he said. Instead, the situation has deteriorated, prompting more people to flee.

Many end up in Jordan. The country has also drawn the attention of terrorists — al-Qaida suicide bombers from Iraq attacked three Amman hotels simultaneously, killing 60 people, in November 2005.

The city has become a meeting place for Iraqis of all stripes, ranging from wealthy functionaries from Saddam Hussein's deposed Baath Party to poor men and women who straggled into town with few resources and fewer hopes.

The affluent Iraqis have driven up property values and spawned resentment as they cruise in shiny BMWs and Mercedes. The struggling ones have often undercut Jordanian workers in the competition for low-wage jobs.

Alwan and his family fall somewhere in the middle.

He owned a small gold jewelry shop in Baghdad that produced a steady income, and the family lived in a comfortable house with a garden.

One of his daughters, Tayseer, was born with a severe hearing problem, but she was enrolled in a special school for the deaf, and his other two children, son Yousef and daughter Sara, attended school as well.

The family was part of the Sabian sect, a small religious group that is neither Christian nor Islamic. They were able to worship under Saddam Hussein's secular government, but they, like other minorities, have been targeted by the new Islamic parties fighting for control of Baghdad, Alwan said.

"There was no discrimination against us under Saddam, but the hatred was always there, hidden deep down, and when Saddam fell it all came to the surface," said Alwan, huddled with his family and other Sabians in a small apartment.

"We were called infidels and told we would be killed if we didn't convert. Then we got threats to kidnap my kids."

He said so many people he knew were kidnapped and forced to give up their houses or apartments as ransom payments that he withdrew his children from school.

"Now the militias are living in our houses in Baghdad, and here we are living like statues, doing nothing," he said.

His family has been living in Jordan for more than two years without an income. He said he has used all his savings.

Other Sabians who have arrived more recently have seen their families divided.

Azhar Sami, who left Baghdad eight months ago, lives with her two children in the same apartment house with Alwan, but her husband is stuck in Syria.

He came to Jordan, she said, but then left for Syria to visit his elderly mother and could not return because of the tougher border controls. She can reach him by telephone, but she does not know how they will be reunited.

Her application for Jordanian residency has been turned down, and her attempt to settle in Australia has also been rejected. Her husband has been petitioning the U.S. for permission to live in America for 15 years without success.

She and other Iraqis blame the United States for toppling Saddam, whom they called their protector, without making adequate plans for what would follow. They are suspicious about the new U.S. plan to admit more Iraqi refugees, which they say is too limited to have any impact.

"The Americans keep talking of solutions," she said, "but we don't see solutions. What does 7,000 mean if there are 1 million Iraqis in Jordan? Seven thousand is nothing."

Other minorities from Iraq, including many Christians, have sought haven in Jordan, as have many Muslims caught in the violent power struggle between Shiites and Sunnis.

The Mecca Mall, set in a part of Amman filled with new million-dollar villas, has become a gathering spot for many displaced Iraqis.

Wealthy Sunnis who enjoyed a privileged life under Saddam trade rumors with Turkmen who ran successful businesses, Christians who faced persecution after the regime fell and Shiites who fled when sectarian fighting worsened.

Many were part of an educated, professional class that is leaving Baghdad because of repeated threats, said Raja Mohammed.

"My husband was a professor in Baghdad, and we were afraid because professors were being assassinated," she said. "We were Shiites living in a Sunni area, and when we got a threat on the phone, we were afraid they would kidnap our kids, and we left right away.

"In Iraq, anyone who has the money to go will go."

I haven't had time to read the other responses, but I wanted to say that I think almost all of us with ME/NA SOs have experienced this from someone close to us. The media has bred so much ignorance and those who lack real experience of a different culture just are not capable of understanding your point of view. What I found was it took time for people to get to know my husband and to begin to see he's not such a bad guy or an opportunist. Now my parents are so nuts about him its annoying to me. LOL These were the people who said they could NEVER accept that I married "one of those people." I know your frustration and your pain, but all any of us can do is stand in our present truth, whatever it may be and take strength in that. No one knows the future or what it will bring, but we do have today. The truth will speak for itself. Hugs.

i have to disagree with your comment about people who "lack experience of a different culture" feel this way...

my parents are well educated and well traveled (and my dad is even an immigrant) but still feel this way.

i think its just them not understanding my love for someone with so many obstacles yet wanting to take these risks anyway. they think i should find someone here who i would have less of a chance of having problems with. more logical thinking i guess. yes i could easily marry an american with similar beliefs to myself and STILL have problems, but in their eyes it would still make my life easier.

I think it can be lack of a experience but it also isn't necessarily the case.

The reality is these relationships are not necessarily easy. I think some of the concerns friends/family express are real issues that can arise and should be considered (most men will want to raise their children Muslim, Morocco will not let children leave without the father's permission, etc). My stepfather, mother and aunt have all lived in the Middle East. They were and continue to be supportive of my marriage but they did address things they thought my husband and I should discuss - most of which we already had. However, they did bring up a few things we had not explored as deeply and I am glad we dealt with those things. Also, on their advice, I talked to some family friends that are in Arab/American marriages who were able to offer real life experience. Anyway, I think the concerns can be a positive thing if you listen with an open mind rather than just putting up a defense. So many people find themselves encountering problems they never anticipated that can be big struggles and by exploring their concerns, you can may end up resolving some things earlier than later.