Mike_Mac

Thanks, Ms Nguyen.

I agree, honesty and full disclosure are good.

Ouch! That sucks.

Start a new hobby?

hahaha!

this woman was going to be my new hobby

If a good friend was telling you this story what advice would you give that friend?

I would tell him exactly what others say here.....I know you're right.

It's just difficult to get this woman out of my head.

@Mike_Mac: If I'm a criminal person, I won't make any "confession". The defense attorney always advise their client to refuse the "confession" She may not want to make any "confession."

Maybe she'll meet me without her defense lawyer....?

She just went to a prayer conference in Missouri, and mumbled something about going to confession and talking about her lies to me....but she mumbled it so I'm not sure. Her English gets better at times, and worse at others. At this point, I'm not expecting any truth or great revelations, and even if she told me the "truth", I would have no way to know if it was really the "truth". At one point, she tried to explain all her assets by telling me she got kickbacks from companies that did business with her employer, but it did not make much sense, and sounded like someone had helped her dream it up. Every time I press her, she tells me I'm "just playing with her". Maybe (1%?) there's a non sexual explanation for the mountain of evidence, but I expect if I insist on truth that makes sense and that I can believe, she will get angry and walk out, and that will be the end of it.

This is so strange, I need to know the truth, but the truth will probably break everything!

haha....

"Economic" reason may not be your problem, but the American lawmakers and government consider it as a problem. The people who can immigrate to the US are the students, family members of Americans citizen, high skilled workers, travelers, ... Do you see anyone (aliens) say that he/she wants to immigrate to the US because he/she is so poor on his/her country, then his/her visa was approved? It only happened in the first period of time when the US was forming and when the British people and Europeans came here to look for a new life.

Well you can see how well the lawmakers and government clerks are doing? Unemployment up, stock markets crashing and nervous, inflation of our currency, QE1-QE2 now QE3 coming, sales down, our Constitutional rights are trampled, our younger people have been taught that Mao and Stalin were nice guys and Marxism is good, and our government is taxing and spending us into oblivion while we are now $15 trillion in debt. Not so well, huh?

Sadly, about half of Americans actually believe what the politicians tell them....If you study history, you see the USA on a downward trajectory since about 1913. Hong Kong is the most economically free place on earth, it taxes and spends only about 7% of it's GDP. We tax well over 20% of our GDP, and spend so much we must borrow about 42%.

The lawmakers are running their own game in Washington DC.

Thank you for your good comments, tuvaty.

In addition, the idea of making money quickly when we-the Vietnamese immigrants-just enter the USA could create the discrimination and the visa process would be more difficult because the Americans will think that the immigrants only want to come to their country for "economic" reason, not for living with their family members or their spouse.

...

Someones may say that Bill Gate never complete his degree; however, he still is very rich. He can make money because he has a great idea. If I cannot have any great idea better than making nail or cooking food, I should go to school.

Making money quickly and economic reasons are good...anyone who wants to work hard to make a better life should be welcomed with open arms! We used to call it the "American Dream" and "Freedom".

It's the love part that gets you into trouble...haha

Wow... I really feel bad for Mike_Mac here, in a sad way. Mister, you're being lied to and being used by this lady who probably has more schemes than you can imagine. But I am glad you're wide awake in this mess. I hope you'll get out of this mess safe and secured, financially and emotionally.

Thanks, Tuvaty, I feel ok now, and lucky!

If she gave you the ultimatum to marry her or she'll find someone else, I don't know what else you need in addition to the huge mountain of evidence that you previously mentioned.

Nothing else, Dan. I'm cured. I've seen the light! But she is going to take confession in Missouri this weekend....

i agree with hien 100% on all points...down to her ex and the rich student looking to broker marriages (guys and girls). it's a broad generalization but it should apply to most vn women.

bu`a/ngai just means casting spells or voodoos. i haven't seen it but some claims it does work.

as for OP...your relationship can be best summed up from her pov "if you don't marry me i'll just find another person to marry...". you've had your fun, time to move on.

also viet keu don't have to give up land when to relocate now. this was the only sucky part when we relocated back in the 80's. our family left back ALOT of land and now the relatives that stayed back are actually quite richer than us poor schmucks over here.

Yes, my impression was, that if my GF moved here, she planned to keep her house in HCMC. I don't know if they have a private property ownership schema with fee simple, warranty deeds and title data banks like we have here, but I heard generally they made some rule changes re property a few years back. I had also heard that VN's signing on to international agreements, like the WTO, were more window dressing than real. As for dower rights and other preferred treatment generally accorded women here, I have no idea if similar rules exist in VN. One thing I tell my clients, before getting married, especially if they have a business, but even if they might start a business in the future, is to get a pre-nuptial agreement! This can protect the business owner, regardless if it's the H or W.

I believe all people want the same things in life and are basically good. From the little I know, the VN government treated it's people quite poorly after April 1975, and sent folks to re-training camps and prison simply for being on the losing side, or wanting to leave. I remember Saigon being called the "Paris of the East" or something like that, because it was such a wonderful city. Most folks just want to reach upward, to God and heaven, if you will, for a better life, but fate and chance get in the way. The USA is lucky to have started as a British colony, where aspirations to equality and freedom took root early on, while across the Channel, they were still fighting, killing and cooking up Marxist ideas. I think this explains why the Philippines, for example, continues to struggle while trying to recover from 400 years of Spanish rule, compared to Hong Kong, the free-est place on earth now with a 8-9% growth rate. The word "fair" is an English concept. Perhaps if VN had been occupied by Englishmen instead of Chinese and Frenchmen, things might have turned out a little different.

Forgive this digression!

Obviously you haven't been approached by those college students currently here in the States on student Visas. The higher she's educated, the more sophisticated her schemes will become.

When a really old man comes and seeks a really young girl (of course of legal marriage age), there's NOTHING that will change the outcome in the end.

OP, you're not the first one and won't be the last. So many and many and many before you already fell into this marriage trapping game. Wait til' you meet someone who knows how to play "Bua`" or "Ngai~". Search on Google if you don't know what those are.

I cannot find anything related to our discussion for these words, with or without quotes....

I had read US tourist stories online about VN girls, but never got an education like I've gotten here. Thanks, VJ!

For the record, I did not approach this as a "dirty old man" hunting for young girl. My GF was approaching age 50 and I thought that would be a compatible age for me. But one remarkable thing was how good her body was, at her age she put most american women to shame....

this is excellent advise! just like anywhere else the thought process and thinking of an educated woman is very different than some girl working at the various hotspots in saigon...even moreso with vietnam's corrupt culture. it can mean the difference of having your ####### intact or unknowingly detached from your body.

it can get very bon chen and giang ho with the vn girls...just look at any typical nail shop over here.

Quann, I like all my parts right where they are.....haha.

But what is "bon chen" and "giang ho"? And what do you mean by the nail shops?

Her relatives actually operate two nail shops, I've been in one and it just looks like a "nail shop" to me.

Yes, I'm still married. We had a little girl. She is 2.5 years now. I'm happy with my family and never want to leave my husband. I love my little daughter; I don't want her to live without her daddy.

When I was in VN, I'm not rich, but not poor. I had a good job there and an apartment. I was lucky because I had studied a lot in my young age. That's why when I immigrated to the US, I could return to the College and have a daughter at the same time. Now, I'm graduating and looking for a job. Sincerely say, coming back to the workforce by a career working in office is not easy; however, I try my best.

If you want to have a second marriage with an Asian woman, you should look for an high educated woman. She may not treat you like a "paid girl." Other option is to look for someone in the US. It is safe and you don't have to think whether she wants you or wants the US Passport.

Good luck!

@Mike_Mac: I skim over 6 pages. In general, I don't know who you are saying about because I never face your guys in real life. However, I'm a lady, so I can tell you some points here:

1. Your GF never ask you money;

2. She had huge properties and assets in Vietnam already;

3. Her daughter immigrated to US by student visa;

4. Your GF wants your to get K1 visa for her.

Do you see the future she will go further here?

I don't know whether she loves you or not; however, she is planning to move her little family to US for a better life.

It does not mean she wants money, but she wants the US Passport for her and her daughter. She had money already. If you add more, that's good. If not, you can help her to get the US Passport, then she can kick you out any time.

When you get married to her. She can immigrate to US, then she will sponsor her daughter to change to Permanent Resident status (no more student visa).

After she finished these steps, if you and she live happily, that's good. If your guy's life is not good, she will say goodbye to you.

I guess your guys' age is around 40-50 or 60 yrs. A rich woman at that age in Vietnam does not want to leave all properties and assets in VN to go with a man to live in the US just for loving.

Thank you, you are more honest with me than my GF. You are also correct about our ages. Everything you said rings true. To me, before coming to this site, I thought of a marriage with this woman, who told me she loved me, as something to hold carefully in my hands. This would have been my second marriage and I did not want to fail, could not. But she takes it and spits on it. As to where she got her money, I now tend to believe that she was a "gai bao" as someone here said, or worse. Lot's of little things prove it. How else would a poor woman like her acquire the nice house and money that she has? She actually has the habits of a prostitute. The other day, she told me if I did not marry her, she would marry someone else. That's is not love, it's a business proposition, a negotiating tactic. I have always treated her and her family very well, but now I remember her family looking at me with strange eyes, and now I know why. Now I understand she would always lie to me, and always hide her life and her assets, but share in mine. It would never have been a true marriage. I would be an accessory to her main purpose, and she would leave me at any time. Loving someone means you tell the truth, but a gai bao never tells the truth, and no doubt she will never tell me the truth. Her evil past has spilled over into my life now. For all I know she is worth more than I am! She cannot love me, or she would tell me the truth.

Thank you!

@Mike_Mac: I skim over 6 pages. In general, I don't know who you are saying about because I never face your guys in real life. However, I'm a lady, so I can tell you some points here:

1. Your GF never ask you money;

2. She had huge properties and assets in Vietnam already;

3. Her daughter immigrated to US by student visa;

4. Your GF wants your to get K1 visa for her.

Do you see the future she will go further here?

I don't know whether she loves you or not; however, she is planning to move her little family to US for a better life.

It does not mean she wants money, but she wants the US Passport for her and her daughter. She had money already. If you add more, that's good. If not, you can help her to get the US Passport, then she can kick you out any time.

When you get married to her. She can immigrate to US, then she will sponsor her daughter to change to Permanent Resident status (no more student visa).

After she finished these steps, if you and she live happily, that's good. If your guy's life is not good, she will say goodbye to you.

I guess your guys' age is around 40-50 or 60 yrs. A rich woman at that age in Vietnam does not want to leave all properties and assets in VN to go with a man to live in the US just for loving.

Let me ask you, are you still married?

Actually the OP was extremely lucky or he just made up the story to entertain us. If the lady actually has bad intention, she would NEVER reveal her real face til she's got what she wants (the GC and half of what he owns). Either she just doesn't care because she knows if the OP refuses her, she would have so many other "suckers" lining up as her next "potential" victim(s) or she already got the next victim hooked up and she started losing interest in the OP.

OP, although I can kinda enjoy your story for a bit, I find these kinda stories as old as the Earth itself. You actually have to get online and ask for advice to figure out whether a lady's feeling/love/lust/whatever for you is genuine or not? Man, then you shouldn't venture out there in the sea seeking for a piece of love. So many ladies with much more sophisticated schemes and traps are waiting for you, OP.

Lon, I assure you I did not make this up....and many times I have regretted "outing myself" with this outlandish story...but I have gotten some very valuable advice from folks who know the turf much better than I, and I have some degree of anonymity, and it's not like I have to face anyone here at the office in the morning.

But you just made a good point - why would she reveal things to me before she got what she wants? Some things she revealed, and some others she left "out in the open" for me to discover, and a third set I discovered on my own. So now I wonder if maybe she really wanted me to know, and if yes, why? If she was in fact a "gai bao" as someone earlier suggested, why would she tell me her BF paid her and "out" herself? She's always treated me well and never asked me for money. Maybe the author here can use this in his book.

Wow Mike. You're going to have a heart to heart with her even when she just gets angry when you try to get her to be honest, then all she wants to do is talk about you getting her the K1 visa. You are a very trusting man. I guess you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Good luck, that's all I can say.

Actually, thank to VJ, now I am less trusting, and will insist on good answers, or else, if we have that discussion.

I don't know her, or you, but if it were me personally in your situation, I would want to know for sure instead of just dropping her and moving on. As painful as the realisation that she might be lying to you still (or is involved in something or with someone else) may be, it's the sort of closure you really need to be able to move on. Clearly the love you/miss you phone calls with the other man is pretty damning, and I think you tripped yourself up by not demanding an explanation then and there... if she's giving you this much reason to doubt her, you are entirely justified in wanting and asking for the answers you need to have to protect yourself emotionally and financially. I just suggest the heart-to-heart because it sounds like you care about her deeply; I would suggest telling her that if she can't open up and be honest with you about her past and what's going on now, then you're going to cut her loose. If she really loves you, she'll see how important this is to you and want to set your mind at ease, and if she starts crying or getting angry at your probing in order to deflect you need to recognise that as the emotional abuse it is. You deserve better, but you also deserve to know what you've been involved with.

Also, don't let this sour you towards other relationships, no matter what part of the world it comes from. Being a Vietnamese woman does not mean you're going to be a vindictive, emotionally manipulative shrew in the same way that being an American does not mean you're going to be a judgemental, condescending fop. There are good and bad people all over the world, and the only way to find the former over the latter is to keep your heart and mind open and not let your bad experiences define who you are and how you look at things. If it hasn't already, love will find you, and it's important that you're ready to receive it emotionally and mentally when it does. Best of luck.

Yes Dora, she's in another city now, but I'm trying to have that heart to heart with her but she does not open up easily, like a clam or an oyster! After she gets angry we go back to normal, and we get back to what she wants to talk about - the fiance visa! If I reverse this mentally, and say I had a 10-15 year past to hide, and my GF is pleading with me to tell her about my past (assuming I wanted to hide it), I think I would tell her the truth, if I truly loved her and even if it hurt me, just out of fairness and in the interest of full disclosure before a marriage. I think I would put my cards on the table and let her decide if the still wanted me. But I've never been in that position before ...

Is her name is Dung or Nhung, and she is living in Q3 right.... I am just curious after following this threads....

No....and not Q3

Look. It is hard to be delicate about this. Your GF has already admitted that she used to be a #######. From what you have told us she is more than likely still a #######. The odds in this type stuff is that she will always be a ####### as long as she is able to.

You have only two choices to make here. You can continue in this relationship and all it entails or you can stop it dead in the water. No more tawdry discussion is really needed. Meeting any one babe online is at the best a 50/50 that they will be good or bad. The best way to meet a babe is to know someone that is already hooked up with a good babe and let them introduce you to another good babe. They could still be bad but the odds are way in the favor that the introduction will be a good one.

This is tough for you and I feel for you. I will say a prayer for you that good comes your way because you are in for a heartbreak no matter which of the two decisions you make. God bless.

Thank you , Lucky

I should also point out that I read an article that said that Hef's girlfriends get $1000 a week, and here, your girlfriend got $5000 a month, 10-15 years ago...

Dan, the entertainment industry, to which Hef and his GFs belong, works on hype and PR, and $50k is a pretty paltry sum in Hef's world. Truth is a sidebar. My GF only told me she got paid $5,000 per month, later revised to $2,000 per month, but I have no way to verify that, and someone even suggested that she may have thrown that out as a test, or Trojan Horse, perhaps to see if I would pay that amount...

Mike, there's even more clues in what you just said. So you met her girlfriend, online I presume, who gets money from her BF in Singapore. What was this GF doing chatting with men online when she already has a BF? And she referred you to your GF? Do you live conveniently close to where her daughter goes to school by any chance? Vietnamese women don't usually have sex soon after meeting by the way. This is just the way they're brought up. All clues.

No tc, the other woman did not have her Singaporean "money BF" at that time, I think she met him later, and I was not chatting romantically with her, and no I'm not close to her daughters school. But now I'm thinking back on events and my imagination is starting to run away. One time, she returned from going someplace on her motorcycle once and she returned and was all beat up and scratched up. I could see on the cam it was very painful. She told me that some guys had run her off the road trying to steal her handbag, but she had managed to hang on to it. Now I wonder if she ran into some guy who got a little rough. And on most outings she would wear an old hat, face mask, gloves, etc for sun protection on her motorbike, but a few times she got really dolled up, nice dress, makeup, hair, the works (she's a knockout when she dresses up) and she would tell me she was meeting that GF for dinner, and a few other times she cut the cam off before leaving so I did not see how she was dressed. And she always went to an all-afternoon church meeting every Thursday, but when I visited her, she would not take me, saying she thought I would be too hot. Maybe all true, maybe not. Anyway, I've beat up on her enough here in VJ, and she now stands convicted in the court of public opinion, haha.

Thanks to everyone who gave me their advice on this painful predicament!!! Time for the moment of truth.

I'm curious with all the negative stuff about her, but there must be something you like about her? Why her? Must be one hot mama..

When I first met her, she looked like a little angel to me, and acted that way. She's likeable and fun to be with. She cooks me delicious Vietnamese food. She has a good sense of humor. Our first meeting was accidental, I had talked to another Vietnam woman who introduced me to her, the same woman that my GF has told me gets money from her BF from Singapore. When she first visited me, I was fully expecting to let her have the bed to herself....haha.

In fact, there is a website where men post photos of conquests with these types of women.

tc:

I would like to check those websites if there's a way to get the links

Thanks

I guess we can all give advice the same you yourself can!

Actually if you read through most of the advice it has been quite good, not specific to this one person but rather general to what are norms in VN and some "food for thought". I would agree that the "Run for the Hills" & "Dump her now" comments aren't very helpful but the stuff that has given the OP presence of situation and clarity that we generally don't have when we are the monkey in the middle has been spot on in provoking him to look clearly at the situation he's looking at.

I'm getting a situational awareness, four corners, trees and forest, from people who know about international marriages and Vietnam women and culture, etc etc. It has been invaluable, better, I think, than if I had been able to hire some sort of marital-fiance Vietnam visa counselor, if one even existed, which now that I think about it, Harvard probably offers studies in that. I'm also struck by the generosity and outpouring of love from a bunch of people who don't even know me but are willing to extend a helping hand....I'm amazed and touched. Especially when I was expecting to get thrown out of here for asking such a stupid question!

And I'm hoping the OP stands for Original Poster?

to all the people suggesting a sit down talk...you don't realize how vicious and manipulative vietnamese girls are. they will tell you they love you with tears in their eyes and turn around 5 minutees later and file a restraining order/domestic violence and drop you so fast and laugh in your face about it.

Quann, when I asked her to swear there had been no other men in her life, she packed up her suitcase and headed for the door, and I had to talk her out of it, as I live in Michigan and her nearest relative lives in a different state. So she can be a tough negotiator!

You may be dealing with a drug smuggler, or something as bad as that. Please rule that out before going anywhere with her. She obviously MUST know that you know she has gotten money from men in recent years; yet she still has not told you about her recent past. She may intend for you to think that she is an escort, to hide something worse.

Good point. But I'm sure she's not a drug smuggler. I think it's all about sex.