UK Healthcare

[Mags 112]

I was posting as you split it....so move my post too mags

Done!

[Fandango 1,439]

I was posting as you split it....so move my post too mags

Done!

cheers m'dear

[Captain Oates 910]

I think the people who work in healthcare are great - I couldnt do it - I had two kids and never changed a nappy-it would make me gip !

BUT !!!

I think they are too close to the subject and have become used to the low standards of the NHS AS AN ORGANISDATION.

So they think they re doing ok when the doctor's patient only have to wait a couple of hours among all the bleeding, coughing patients who patiently wait and wait.

I am lucky enough to have an NHS dentist - recently a crown came loose and I was quoted 2 moths for an appointment.

I went private and was seen 1 hour after I came off the phone to the NHS - £50 and it was done.

This is not hearsay - this is my direct evidence

My dad went in for a varicose vein operation on his leg. They messed up the anti-blood clot procedure, sent him home and within 24 hours he was having mini strokes and then a heart attack. He died.

That is not hearsay

I dont WANT to hear about all the self congratulations about when things go right - I want the bad stuff to be STOPPED ! THAT is what is important !

My sister in law took her daughter to the Docs and the doc said the kid had flea bites and told the mother to look through the microscope at the teeth marks - two days later it was confirmed the kid had chicken pox !

That is not hearsay

Until the NHS staff realise that they will always bear the brunt of criticism because of the awful SYSTEM, and help to change that rather than being defensive about their own valuable role which everyone agrees is good, then nothing will change.

They have become used to low funding, horrible administration and incompetence amongst managers and they actually think it is ok and spend all their time pointing out the nice things and the times when things went great and all the happy smiling patients

THEY are not the problem so caste off those blindfolds

[Mags 112]

It is shameful that said NHS chief executives don't make their trusts live up to that standard, however. Its too bad no one seems to have found a way to do that. Chas' family alone has complained time and again about their local trust - but to no avail (and surely they're not the only ones who have complained). I'm not sure what else it would take.

I'm not sure either, to be honest. If a Chief Executive continues to run a place badly he/she DOES get replaced eventually. It isn't publicised that they were leaving cause they're #######, it is usually under the guise of "new job, how wonderful" etc etc. All you can do is hope that the person they get in is better, but recovery for a "sick" hospital takes time, unfortunately.

I worked for St George's in Tooting and we were a mid range hospital (two star). We were also a tertiary referral unit for heart patients. We got the very ill patients with whom a heart transplant was the only hope. Many died, though not through any lack of care or poor surgery. It hit the papers of course and because of them, we lost two excellent surgeons. They were not at fault, their patients were high risk and knew this when they signed the consent forums.

But the papers got hold of it and wanted blood. People then complained and that was that. After that the heart transplant unit closed down for 6 months and many patients were unable to have operations without having to wait a little while. Many died without having been near an operating table. So, who "won" in the end? Not the patients that's for sure, but the papers sure felt smug cause they got two surgeons "retired". Nice.

That's typical of the way the NHS is treated I find. Yes, it is warranted in certain situations, without a doubt, but I find alot of it is blown out of proportion by the papers on their "crusade". Patients then suffer whilst investigations are carried out and it makes the whole thing far worse, imo.

/rant over.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Mags

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

THe NHS has its problems (my experiences were always great) but is it necessarily better in the US? Well that depends on your coverage.

[Captain Oates 910]

THe NHS has its problems (my experiences were always great) but is it necessarily better in the US? Well that depends on your coverage.

Robin and Tracy ? think I am suffering a nostalgia rash - might have to see the Doc !

For all I blast the NHS, If I need an uninsured heart transplant in the U.S. I will have to lose my house and wad or die - at least that won't happen in the UK and I AM taking it with me !

I am sure the U.S. system has lots of rogues too - luckily I can spot em most times

I only had private health once in the UK and the specialist said - 'I don't know if you have an appendix problem or not but I can take it out if you want'

I told him to go ahead as I had just seen an programme on antarctic explorers who have theirs out as a precaution as they will be cut off for 6 months - so I thought it was a bit of free maintenance. That guy was just running up his bill and I knew it and he knew it and it will be like that many times in the US I have no doubt. That private hospital was beautiful and I didnt want to leave but they threw me out after a couple of days.

In the UK the NHS incentive is to tell you to go away and in the US the incentive is to do lots of unnecessary stuff - take your pick. I don't like being ripped off , but waiting x months for what could be critical tests is not right either

The last time I needed MRI - I waited 8 months for an appointment and no you can't chose your specialist. When I got there I had to wait three hours. The waiting room was full but nobody in the room spoke English.

Look the issue seems to be whether all the success stories and nice experiences means that we should lay off criticizing the NHS.

If railtrack left the crossing gates open by mistake and 999 cars crossed safely and the last one was hit by an express train , would we say their safety standards were fine given the low number of problems ?

that is the NHS right now.

My wife has just pulled a chunk of onion out of my ear - I am getting desperate for cures to this ear problem that the Doc refuses to even inspect - and lost half the vegetable in my lug hole !

I repeat - you health workers should NOT be defending the status quo but making more noise than the patients about making sure the horror stories stop happening - it is not in your interests to paint a rosy picture because a lot of patients know what the reality is, and will go private and leave you with the addicts and alkis and attempt suicides and gunshot cases.

[TracyTN 237]

It is shameful that said NHS chief executives don't make their trusts live up to that standard, however. Its too bad no one seems to have found a way to do that. Chas' family alone has complained time and again about their local trust - but to no avail (and surely they're not the only ones who have complained). I'm not sure what else it would take.

I'm not sure either, to be honest. If a Chief Executive continues to run a place badly he/she DOES get replaced eventually. It isn't publicised that they were leaving cause they're #######, it is usually under the guise of "new job, how wonderful" etc etc. All you can do is hope that the person they get in is better, but recovery for a "sick" hospital takes time, unfortunately.

I worked for St George's in Tooting and we were a mid range hospital (two star). We were also a tertiary referral unit for heart patients. We got the very ill patients with whom a heart transplant was the only hope. Many died, though not through any lack of care or poor surgery. It hit the papers of course and because of them, we lost two excellent surgeons. They were not at fault, their patients were high risk and knew this when they signed the consent forums.

But the papers got hold of it and wanted blood. People then complained and that was that. After that the heart transplant unit closed down for 6 months and many patients were unable to have operations without having to wait a little while. Many died without having been near an operating table. So, who "won" in the end? Not the patients that's for sure, but the papers sure felt smug cause they got two surgeons "retired". Nice.

That's typical of the way the NHS is treated I find. Yes, it is warranted in certain situations, without a doubt, but I find alot of it is blown out of proportion by the papers on their "crusade". Patients then suffer whilst investigations are carried out and it makes the whole thing far worse, imo.

/rant over.

That makes total sense. I suppose having a chief exec 'ousted' because of patient complaints would be a good thing; but situations like you described which make public attention NOT such a good thing. Double edged sword, I suppose. Although it sounds like the press grabbed it, ran with it and made it into something that perhaps they should not have. That is sad.

THe NHS has its problems (my experiences were always great) but is it necessarily better in the US? Well that depends on your coverage.

That's the biggest problem I see with the US system - the inequity based on what you can afford (or possibly even the size town you live in - thus, your 'access' to care). Its a shame that the rich get the best care - and that should be rectified.

That said - there are the obvious inequities of care in the UK, too (your experiences compared to the ones Alan cited) - yet everyone there is paying the same.

It seems to me, too, that the out of pocket things that folks pay in the UK are completely different based on where you live. I remember another thread here once where we were debating the price of certain dental procedures. What my hubby paid was FAR more than what someone else paid. One can understand a bit of a difference - a few pounds here or there - but in that thread, the differences were hundreds of quid.

If its an NHS covered treatment, why the huge differences? Just trying to understand.

[no name 1]

I had foot surgery in NYC in Jan 2003, on insurance. He messed up so he did it again in Dec 2003. FOR FREE.

I had a free surgery in the UK (to correct the bad US surgery) which took a few reschedules but it happened. My local GP would see me in quickly & was great.

I now have a lawsuit pending against the US doctor as my foot is permanently disfigured. Hubby spent 3 hours waiting with a disclocated finger in a US ER 3 weeks ago. Cost us a fortune too (not yet insured).

I prefer the NHS, thanks.

Edited August 22, 2007 by devilette

[Captain Oates 910]

I had foot surgery in NYC in Jan 2003, on insurance. He messed up so he did it again in Dec 2003. FOR FREE.

I had a free surgery in the UK (to correct the bad US surgery) which took a few reschedules but it happened. My local GP would see me in quickly & was great.

I now have a lawsuit pending against the US doctor as my foot is permanently disfigured. Hubby spent 3 hours waiting with a disclocated finger in a US ER 3 weeks ago. Cost us a fortune too (not yet insured).

I prefer the NHS, thanks.

Dear Mrs Deville

Yes there are incompetent doctors all over.... and Dr Shipman murdered 215 patients on the NHS !

and Doctor Crippen was an American doctor - and we hanged him !

http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/dr_crippen.htm

So yes we can't say that the doctors are better or worse and they move between the countries anyway..

was hubby's dislocated finger in one of those 'free' ER places - the ones who send you a bill later - or was it an insurance jobby ?

I haven't figured out the system in the US totally but apparently the insurance companies wriggle out of the claim if you don't comply with their terms exactly.

Perhaps US Medicare people get a good deal as they will get paid out and won't be refused after they are a certain age - I will be one of those in 5 years if the USCIS/NVC/DOS don't give me a heart attack before then...

The NHS has rationing by age - so they say - I always note hearsay when I use it

alan

[thesnowman 1]

I have never had a problem with the NHS, my US wife loved the midwife service when having a baby, so much so she wants to have a midwife again much to the fustration of our insurance company. I have been more fustrated by the system over here than anywhere else. When we came back here we came back as a family, therefore no medical insurance. My wife and son got on Medicaid until I got full time employment, but I only recently got insurance, thank god I didnt get sick before. I am now having to worry about the cost of having another baby as my deductible will come into play.

The NHS isnt perfect, but at least I was ALWAYS seen by a GP on the day if I called before 10am. Over here if my son is sick we have to wait 3-4 days, unless he has an ear infection then its 48 hours.

Now dont get me wrong, my son had an operation whilst on Medicaid and the level of service and the standard of the hospital were superb, better than what I have seen in the UK. However I just don't understand in a country as rich and wealthy as America that it doesn't have a unified health care system. My wife is also works as an insurance biller for a doctors surgery and the way these insurance companies get the payments wrong just in the hope that you don't notice.

Neither system is perfect, but I would rather not have to worry about insurance and coverage and just know that I will be taken care off.

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

The NHS isnt perfect, but at least I was ALWAYS seen by a GP on the day if I called before 10am.

Wow -- you mustn't have been living in North London then! I had to see my GP earlier this year about what turned out to be a torn ligament in my wrist. At first I had ignored the pain for a day, but it swelled up alarmingly and I called the surgery to seek help. I was told it would be one week until any doctor, not just my GP, could see me. I told them my wrist was popping all the time, I was in terrible pain unless I doped myself to high heaven with Solpadeine and my wrist was almost triple its normal size. No dice, but maybe I could go to casualty? (No way, Jose!) One week later, my wrist was in a splint and the doctor actually asked me why I had waited so long to seek help! I'm still having problems with the wrist, and I was told it could take up to a year to heal. I have no way of knowing whether the delay in getting treatment made the healing process slow down.

I have had awesome care on the NHS on occasion, adequate to good care most of the time, and on a few occasions truly terrible care that endangered my life. I have no idea what to expect in the US -- I'm hoping my interview tomorrow will result in an employment contract (as opposed to a consultancy agreement) that will allow me to take advantage of the great care available at the university's health clinic. Otherwise, I'm praying nothing goes wrong in the next few months!

[KaiserD 12]

It gets a bit much when they are constantly had a go at when all they are doing is the best they can. smile.gif

I've already had a crack at my personal experience with NHS so not going to do it again (too much time to explain).

Whatever way you look at it the NHS is falling apart...BUT....although you will find people (like myself) who will criticize the NHS as a whole very few people will speak badly against the nurses because most of them try very hard every day and many of those who don't try are probably so demoralized!

Mum was in and out the hospital all the time for a few years, I know Warrington hospital like the back of my hand now. We've seen many examples of staff trying to do their best for all the patients.

But the level of care: the cleanliness, the amount of nurses (and too many managers!), too many wards and smaller hospital closing is getting simply dangerous.

Every single person in my family has had a bad experience with NHS. My own was not so serious thankfully, but they almost killed my mother through negligence (again because they were too busy to cope). I can't help feeling if this is just my family, Gods know what the rest of the UK is like.

[thesnowman 1]

The NHS isnt perfect, but at least I was ALWAYS seen by a GP on the day if I called before 10am.

Wow -- you mustn't have been living in North London then! I had to see my GP earlier this year about what turned out to be a torn ligament in my wrist. At first I had ignored the pain for a day, but it swelled up alarmingly and I called the surgery to seek help. I was told it would be one week until any doctor, not just my GP, could see me. I told them my wrist was popping all the time, I was in terrible pain unless I doped myself to high heaven with Solpadeine and my wrist was almost triple its normal size. No dice, but maybe I could go to casualty? (No way, Jose!) One week later, my wrist was in a splint and the doctor actually asked me why I had waited so long to seek help! I'm still having problems with the wrist, and I was told it could take up to a year to heal. I have no way of knowing whether the delay in getting treatment made the healing process slow down.

I have had awesome care on the NHS on occasion, adequate to good care most of the time, and on a few occasions truly terrible care that endangered my life. I have no idea what to expect in the US -- I'm hoping my interview tomorrow will result in an employment contract (as opposed to a consultancy agreement) that will allow me to take advantage of the great care available at the university's health clinic. Otherwise, I'm praying nothing goes wrong in the next few months!

Lived in Bristol.

[Captain Oates 910]

I guess the conclusion is that the NHS staff are like the soldiers serving in Iraq

Everyone supports the poor folk who bear the horror of the front line mess in Iraq and the NHS, but that does not mean we can't criticise the circumstances under which they are forced to work and demand changes...

We won't get them of course but that's democracy for you - is it better to die neglected on a trolley in a corridor under democracy or be quickly cured under say communism in cuba ?

Dont think too hard about it - you might become depressed and you know the waiting list for that.

[MargotDarko 0]

The NHS isnt perfect, but at least I was ALWAYS seen by a GP on the day if I called before 10am.

Wow -- you mustn't have been living in North London then! I had to see my GP earlier this year about what turned out to be a torn ligament in my wrist. At first I had ignored the pain for a day, but it swelled up alarmingly and I called the surgery to seek help. I was told it would be one week until any doctor, not just my GP, could see me. I told them my wrist was popping all the time, I was in terrible pain unless I doped myself to high heaven with Solpadeine and my wrist was almost triple its normal size. No dice, but maybe I could go to casualty? (No way, Jose!) One week later, my wrist was in a splint and the doctor actually asked me why I had waited so long to seek help! I'm still having problems with the wrist, and I was told it could take up to a year to heal. I have no way of knowing whether the delay in getting treatment made the healing process slow down.

I have had awesome care on the NHS on occasion, adequate to good care most of the time, and on a few occasions truly terrible care that endangered my life. I have no idea what to expect in the US -- I'm hoping my interview tomorrow will result in an employment contract (as opposed to a consultancy agreement) that will allow me to take advantage of the great care available at the university's health clinic. Otherwise, I'm praying nothing goes wrong in the next few months!

Lived in Bristol.

I live in Oxford and I've always been able to see one of the GPs at my surgery the same day I called. The same was true when I lived in America though.

Thesnowman - Hopefully you do get the job. If you don't, you should look into short term health coverage. When you go without coverage, it's nearly impossible to get coverage for existing conditions when you do finally get health insurance. AAA offers it and I bet quite a lot of places do too. Having been under the NHS in the UK should be your current proof of existing coverage.