Labour Peer calls for ban on mullahs who don't learn English

[Saddle Bronc 124]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6275574.stm

Ban foreign language imams - peer

Foreign imams who do not learn English should be banned from giving sermons in UK mosques, a Labour peer has said.

Lord Ahmed's comments come as a survey suggests imams lack professional and language skills to tackle the threat of radicalism among young British Muslims.

Only 8% of imams preaching in British mosques were born in the UK, it found.

Research at 300 mosques by Chester University for BBC News and the BBC Asian Network also indicated only 6% speak English as a first language.

The report acknowledges the use of English is becoming more prevalent at Friday sermons but says more investigation is required to assess the frequency and quality.

It concluded mosques often remained in the control of first generation migrants.

BBC religious affairs correspondent Robert Pigott says the survey does not contain evidence that imams are radicalising young British Muslims.

But he says imams face competition from groups who wait outside mosques to hand out leaflets and are prepared to talk to young people in English about issues such as discrimination and UK foreign policy in the Middle East.

Report author Professor Ron Geaves said its aim was to look at the ability of imams to adapt to modern Britain.

Lord Ahmed, who became the UK's first Muslim peer in 1998, said a new national advisory and training body was needed to train imans already in the country and impose bans on those who cannot speak English or understand the culture.

"They need to pass exams, they need to do more," he told BBC News 24.

"In fact, I would go as far as to say that if they don't learn English within a certain period then they shouldn't be allowed to deliver sermons."

If they can play their role properly and communicate with young people they can get the message across to wider society in a very good way.

Muhammad Abdul Bari

Muslim Council of Britain

The general secretary of the Muslim Council of Britain, Muhammad Abdul Bari, said imams should be able to "talk and engage" people of all age groups.

"If they can play their role properly and communicate with young people they can get the message across to wider society in a very good way," he said.

'Deeply conservative'

Each mosque was asked a set of questions about imams including their place of birth, first language, qualifications and language of the Friday sermon.

The survey found 24 imams were born and educated in the UK, but this did not reflect the percentage of British-born South Asian Muslims who represent more than half of the Muslim population.

The study reveals a deeply conservative body of individuals maintaining traditional languages, types of qualification and still largely recruited from the place of origin

Professor Ron Geaves

University of Chester

The survey found almost 45% of imams have been in the UK for less than five years.

The interviews conducted in February and March, also indicated that 50% of imams are from Pakistan, 20% from Bangladesh and 15% from India.

Some 66% of imams speak Urdu as a first language with 52% giving sermons in the language, it adds.

It also suggests that 6% of imams arrived in the UK in the past 12 months with 23% being in the UK for more than 10 years.

Professor Geaves said: "The study reveals a deeply conservative body of individuals maintaining traditional languages, types of qualification and still largely recruited from the place of origin."

The imams were "overwhelmingly" qualified in the traditional Islamic curriculum, which he said had changed little since medieval times.

He added: "Although there are social religious and political reasons that drive a need to transform the imamate to a 21st century British context there is as yet little sign of the mosque imams or their employers being ready to professionalise."

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

They seem to have no interest in the English language or culture.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Outside of pub-culture there really isn't an English "culture" as such. Unless you count - the movement away from organised religions towards secularism.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

They seem to have no interest in the English language or culture.

If you notice a little detail, over 80% come from what was formerly a single British colony, the South Asian sub-continent (aka "British India" until 1947/08/13). While many North Indians (and smaller percentage of South and Central) have anti-British feelings, they basically leave it to that point (or, at most, avoid visiting Britain or travelling on British Airways). These mullahs have taken it to a point which the vast majority (of Hindu and Sikh) cannot conceptualise--they actually decided to do a counterinvasion to totally destroy the culture of the former coloniser.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

They seem to have no interest in the English language or culture.

If you notice a little detail, over 80% come from what was formerly a single British colony, the South Asian sub-continent (aka "British India" until 1947/08/13). While many North Indians (and smaller percentage of South and Central) have anti-British feelings, they basically leave it to that point (or, at most, avoid visiting Britain or travelling on British Airways). These mullahs have taken it to a point which the vast majority (of Hindu and Sikh) cannot conceptualise--they actually decided to do a counterinvasion to totally destroy the culture of the former coloniser.

Karma

[hmm1 0]

They seem to have no interest in the English language or culture.

If you notice a little detail, over 80% come from what was formerly a single British colony, the South Asian sub-continent (aka "British India" until 1947/08/13). While many North Indians (and smaller percentage of South and Central) have anti-British feelings, they basically leave it to that point (or, at most, avoid visiting Britain or travelling on British Airways). These mullahs have taken it to a point which the vast majority (of Hindu and Sikh) cannot conceptualise--they actually decided to do a counterinvasion to totally destroy the culture of the former coloniser.

Karma

Karma is what brought the Japanese Hiroshima and Nagasaki...do you recommend that we do the same to Tehran and the other Muslim countires that preach this hatred? Not anitmuslim, just antihatred...

[Saddle Bronc 124]

They seem to have no interest in the English language or culture.

If you notice a little detail, over 80% come from what was formerly a single British colony, the South Asian sub-continent (aka "British India" until 1947/08/13). While many North Indians (and smaller percentage of South and Central) have anti-British feelings, they basically leave it to that point (or, at most, avoid visiting Britain or travelling on British Airways). These mullahs have taken it to a point which the vast majority (of Hindu and Sikh) cannot conceptualise--they actually decided to do a counterinvasion to totally destroy the culture of the former coloniser.

Karma

As karma is a Hindu concept in the first place-->you've been PWN'ed!!!!

(note also that destroying the culture was never an idea behind Brit admin of India--and also never achieved; some reformation, due to their hearing of cries of internal Hindu reformers such as B.C. Chatterjee, I.S. Vidyasagar, Sadhu Vasvani--but certainly not destruction).

Edited July 7, 2007 by CherryXS

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

They seem to have no interest in the English language or culture.

If you notice a little detail, over 80% come from what was formerly a single British colony, the South Asian sub-continent (aka "British India" until 1947/08/13). While many North Indians (and smaller percentage of South and Central) have anti-British feelings, they basically leave it to that point (or, at most, avoid visiting Britain or travelling on British Airways). These mullahs have taken it to a point which the vast majority (of Hindu and Sikh) cannot conceptualise--they actually decided to do a counterinvasion to totally destroy the culture of the former coloniser.

Karma

Karma is what brought the Japanese Hiroshima and Nagasaki...do you recommend that we do the same to Tehran and the other Muslim countires that preach this hatred? Not anitmuslim, just antihatred...

Steven PWNED!

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

destroying the culture was never an idea behind Brit admin of India--and also never achieved; some reformation, due to their hearing of cries of internal Hindu reformers such as B.C. Chatterjee, I.S. Vidyasagar, Sadhu Vasvani--but certainly not destruction).

Their primary agenda in India (today India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) was economic exploitation. Not destruction or even cultural reformation. They were economic rapists.

[AnaAndDaniel 0]

interesting. not sure how to phrase it, but it brought to my mind the comparison with priests that are imported by the catholic church from spanish speaking countries to serve spanish speaking parishes(sp?). Those that I've had pleasure of knowing do make an effort to learn english. in fact most have to because they are also asked to give mass in english for non spanish speakers. recently one was commenting on how he rather say "ocean" than "beach" because "beach" comes out like "b!tch"!

Daniel

:energetic:

Edited July 7, 2007 by AnaAndDaniel

[one...two...tree 2,762]

They seem to have no interest in the English language or culture.

If you notice a little detail, over 80% come from what was formerly a single British colony, the South Asian sub-continent (aka "British India" until 1947/08/13). While many North Indians (and smaller percentage of South and Central) have anti-British feelings, they basically leave it to that point (or, at most, avoid visiting Britain or travelling on British Airways). These mullahs have taken it to a point which the vast majority (of Hindu and Sikh) cannot conceptualise--they actually decided to do a counterinvasion to totally destroy the culture of the former coloniser.

Karma

As karma is a Hindu concept in the first place-->you've been PWN'ed!!!!

(note also that destroying the culture was never an idea behind Brit admin of India--and also never achieved; some reformation, due to their hearing of cries of internal Hindu reformers such as B.C. Chatterjee, I.S. Vidyasagar, Sadhu Vasvani--but certainly not destruction).

How is that NOT karma?

"This Hindu primer sums up karma as the law of cause and effect. The principle is similar to that expressed by the Christian verse, "As ye sow, so shall ye reap." The word karma means action, and it's used as short-hand for the idea that every action you take causes a reaction in the future. Positive, caring actions will bring positive results back to you, whereas negative, hurtful actions will result in your suffering."

[Saddle Bronc 124]

They seem to have no interest in the English language or culture.

If you notice a little detail, over 80% come from what was formerly a single British colony, the South Asian sub-continent (aka "British India" until 1947/08/13). While many North Indians (and smaller percentage of South and Central) have anti-British feelings, they basically leave it to that point (or, at most, avoid visiting Britain or travelling on British Airways). These mullahs have taken it to a point which the vast majority (of Hindu and Sikh) cannot conceptualise--they actually decided to do a counterinvasion to totally destroy the culture of the former coloniser.

Karma

As karma is a Hindu concept in the first place-->you've been PWN'ed!!!!

(note also that destroying the culture was never an idea behind Brit admin of India--and also never achieved; some reformation, due to their hearing of cries of internal Hindu reformers such as B.C. Chatterjee, I.S. Vidyasagar, Sadhu Vasvani--but certainly not destruction).

How is that NOT karma?

"This Hindu primer sums up karma as the law of cause and effect. The principle is similar to that expressed by the Christian verse, "As ye sow, so shall ye reap." The word karma means action, and it's used as short-hand for the idea that every action you take causes a reaction in the future. Positive, caring actions will bring positive results back to you, whereas negative, hurtful actions will result in your suffering."

1. Invader/Destroyer is Muslim, not Hindu
   
2. Can't claim Brits invaded/destroyed Muslim-ruled area (Mughal Empire), as Mughal Empire's rule/authority extended "Delhi-Mehrauli" (coincidentally similar to "DC-Gaithersburg", both in suburb-significance and distance) by 1739, well before BEIC started "wheel-dealing" to get territory
   

And I would seriously suggest you look closely at Hindu society prior to these reformations (attempts were made using "tradition" to preserve abominable practices outlawed by British administration) before you make such chopfrack comments about "karma"!!!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

They seem to have no interest in the English language or culture.

If you notice a little detail, over 80% come from what was formerly a single British colony, the South Asian sub-continent (aka "British India" until 1947/08/13). While many North Indians (and smaller percentage of South and Central) have anti-British feelings, they basically leave it to that point (or, at most, avoid visiting Britain or travelling on British Airways). These mullahs have taken it to a point which the vast majority (of Hindu and Sikh) cannot conceptualise--they actually decided to do a counterinvasion to totally destroy the culture of the former coloniser.

Karma

As karma is a Hindu concept in the first place-->you've been PWN'ed!!!!

(note also that destroying the culture was never an idea behind Brit admin of India--and also never achieved; some reformation, due to their hearing of cries of internal Hindu reformers such as B.C. Chatterjee, I.S. Vidyasagar, Sadhu Vasvani--but certainly not destruction).

How is that NOT karma?

"This Hindu primer sums up karma as the law of cause and effect. The principle is similar to that expressed by the Christian verse, "As ye sow, so shall ye reap." The word karma means action, and it's used as short-hand for the idea that every action you take causes a reaction in the future. Positive, caring actions will bring positive results back to you, whereas negative, hurtful actions will result in your suffering."

1. Invader/Destroyer is Muslim, not Hindu
   
2. Can't claim Brits invaded/destroyed Muslim-ruled area (Mughal Empire), as Mughal Empire's rule/authority extended "Delhi-Mehrauli" (coincidentally similar to "DC-Gaithersburg", both in suburb-significance and distance) by 1739, well before BEIC started "wheel-dealing" to get territory
   

And I would seriously suggest you look closely at Hindu society prior to these reformations (attempts were made using "tradition" to preserve abominable practices outlawed by British administration) before you make such chopfrack comments about "karma"!!!

You'd be hard pressed to find many historians who wouldn't make a correlation between British Colonialism and current affairs.

The judicial system reforms, while establishing the primacy of British-style legislation and the rule of precedence-based case law in India, established merely a procedural hegemony on Indian legislation, separate from local substantive codification. Moreover, the British separation of “Hindu” and “Muslim” law, although initially instituted as a product of administrative convenience, recognised inherent differences within the Indian population.[27] As there were no notions of distinct “Hindu” or “Muslim” communities in the pre-colonial era, British categorisation of such distinctions in law resulted in policy changes which ironically accentuated the differences of the two “communities”, especially due to the British perception that Hindus were “passive” and “indolent” as compared to the general suspicions imposed on Muslims, who were believed to be “violent” and “despotic”.[28] This set the stage for factional rivalry that culminated in the post-colonial separation of the territory into India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. While it cannot be argued that the British were directly responsible for the Hindu-Muslim factionalism and conflict, they can be held responsible at least in the sense that they formalised such differences through the legal changes, allowing a heightened sense of identity within each community.

http://members.tripod.com/~marklsl/Writings/india.htm