Progressive Taxation

[Ban Hammer 14,794]

I want to achieve true fairness and to eliminate the social engineering that goes on. The reason for taxes is to fund the government. Not to change society.

it's the modern day robin hood syndrome

ROFLMAO

What, pray tell, do you think the United States would be like without federal income taxes to fund not only social programs but corporate welfare as well? Taxes subsidize a lot of manufacturing jobs in the US, not to mention agriculture. Yeah, go ahead and take it away...it'll be the 1930s all over again.

maybe a lot more people working and a lot less people smoking crack and staying on welfare

[homesick_american 1]

Maybe a lot more people working and a lot less people smoking crack and staying on welfare

Welfare reform enacted in the 1990s makes it difficult if not impossible to remain on welfare for life, so we've eliminated that as a consideration. Also, do you really think that people are just going to get up and get a job if you eliminate subsidies? Bullcorn. They won't get up and get a job because there won't be one for them to get because the subsidies that marginally leveled the playing field will be gone and we won't be able to compete with the Chinese or the illegals who will continue to stream in. Healthcare and school systems will collapse.

If that's the kind of world you want to live in, I suggest you move to Zimbabwe and leave America alone.

[Ban Hammer 14,794]

Maybe a lot more people working and a lot less people smoking crack and staying on welfare

Welfare reform enacted in the 1990s makes it difficult if not impossible to remain on welfare for life, so we've eliminated that as a consideration. Also, do you really think that people are just going to get up and get a job if you eliminate subsidies? Bullcorn. They won't get up and get a job because there won't be one for them to get because the subsidies that marginally leveled the playing field will be gone and we won't be able to compete with the Chinese or the illegals who will continue to stream in. Healthcare and school systems will collapse.

If that's the kind of world you want to live in, I suggest you move to Zimbabwe and leave America alone.

the stomach is a powerful motivator, isn't it?

and does zimbabwe have an illegal problem? if not, it sounds like a good idea

[homesick_american 1]

the stomach is a powerful motivator, isn't it?

More powerful than most westerners realize. Most of us have no idea what it's like to actually be starving, or to be malnourished. Try not eating for 3-4 days. I tried fasting once to see what it was like...no food but I drank water...and I managed 2.5 days. That's all I could handle. It's so painful...it's hard to describe. However, all I got was a little taste of what some people go through.

and does zimbabwe have an illegal problem? if not, it sounds like a good idea

Bloody hell, of course not; nobody wants to go INTO the country and take jobs. Unemployment there is 80%. Most people are trying to get OUT of Zimbabwe. It's a tragedy really; it wasn't always like this. Zimbabwe used to be Africa's 'bread basket' and to this day it still exports food to Europe, even though its own people are starving...though I see less produce from Zimbabwe now than I did 5-6 years ago.

Illegals stream into America because they can find work there and improve their lot in life. Even at the slave wages migrant agricultural workers are paid, they make more than they would in Mexico. That's why they come. It's a compliment, really. (Doesn't mean we shouldn't ship them off home though.)

[Ban Hammer 14,794]

the stomach is a powerful motivator, isn't it?

More powerful than most westerners realize. Most of us have no idea what it's like to actually be starving, or to be malnourished. Try not eating for 3-4 days. I tried fasting once to see what it was like...no food but I drank water...and I managed 2.5 days. That's all I could handle. It's so painful...it's hard to describe. However, all I got was a little taste of what some people go through.

and does zimbabwe have an illegal problem? if not, it sounds like a good idea

Bloody hell, of course not; nobody wants to go INTO the country and take jobs. Unemployment there is 80%. Most people are trying to get OUT of Zimbabwe. It's a tragedy really; it wasn't always like this. Zimbabwe used to be Africa's 'bread basket' and to this day it still exports food to Europe, even though its own people are starving...though I see less produce from Zimbabwe now than I did 5-6 years ago.

Illegals stream into America because they can find work there and improve their lot in life. Even at the slave wages migrant agricultural workers are paid, they make more than they would in Mexico. That's why they come. It's a compliment, really. (Doesn't mean we shouldn't ship them off home though.)

in the words of the donald, "you're fired" as my travel agent then

[homesick_american 1]

in the words of the donald, "you're fired" as my travel agent then

Way to dodge the issue.

[Ban Hammer 14,794]

in the words of the donald, "you're fired" as my travel agent then

Way to dodge the issue.

which is? what's going on in zimbabwe?

[homesick_american 1]

in the words of the donald, "you're fired" as my travel agent then

Way to dodge the issue.

which is? what's going on in zimbabwe?

Hardly. The issue is what could happen to America if you got rid of the social programs, entitlements, and subsidies that our taxes pay for. You wouldn't want America to be like Zimbabwe, would you? Didn't think so.

[Ban Hammer 14,794]

in the words of the donald, "you're fired" as my travel agent then

Way to dodge the issue.

which is? what's going on in zimbabwe?

Hardly. The issue is what could happen to America if you got rid of the social programs, entitlements, and subsidies that our taxes pay for. You wouldn't want America to be like Zimbabwe, would you? Didn't think so.

i don't see that happening even if such occured. but i would be interested in knowing what you consider to be an "entitlement"

[homesick_american 1]

i don't see that happening even if such occured. but i would be interested in knowing what you consider to be an "entitlement"

It wouldn't happen right away, but I haven't seen anyone successfully argue that things would not get worse...a whole lot worse...for low-income earners or for people who are unable to work.

'Entitlement' refers to federal entitlement programs like medicare, medicaid, social security, etc.

[Ban Hammer 14,794]

i don't see that happening even if such occured. but i would be interested in knowing what you consider to be an "entitlement"

It wouldn't happen right away, but I haven't seen anyone successfully argue that things would not get worse...a whole lot worse...for low-income earners or for people who are unable to work.

'Entitlement' refers to federal entitlement programs like medicare, medicaid, social security, etc.

i don't see those stopping, nor is it really an entitlement in my eyes, as they've paid into it.

[homesick_american 1]

i don't see those stopping, nor is it really an entitlement in my eyes, as they've paid into it.

Well, you're not really on board the flat tax/no welfare train then.

Oh, and money you pay for SS isn't saved for you. It's going to pay for retired peoples' pensions right now. The generations that follow you are the ones who are going to pay for you. You can also collect these benefits by following eligibility rules, and you don't always need to be working/have worked in order to collect them. Ergo, they are entitlements and that is how the fed. gov't refers to them. If you have a problem with that, take it up with them.

Edited April 18, 2007 by homesick_american

[Ban Hammer 14,794]

i don't see those stopping, nor is it really an entitlement in my eyes, as they've paid into it.

Well, you're not really on board the flat tax/no welfare train then.

to me an entitlement is something one is given for free, those you listed are something one pays into over their lifetime so i don't see how they could be considered to be an entitlement (unless, of course, you wish to discuss the "entitlement" of aged illegals getting amnesty and being instantly eligible medicare, ssn, and so on).

[homesick_american 1]

i don't see those stopping, nor is it really an entitlement in my eyes, as they've paid into it.

Well, you're not really on board the flat tax/no welfare train then.

to me an entitlement is something one is given for free, those you listed are something one pays into over their lifetime so i don't see how they could be considered to be an entitlement (unless, of course, you wish to discuss the "entitlement" of aged illegals getting amnesty and being instantly eligible medicare, ssn, and so on).

I'm not going to argue with you about what the word 'entitlement' means. I already explained to you what an entitlement program is on the federal level.

Before, I said that you don't seem to actually be on the flat tax/no welfare train then...a lot of people jump off when they realize just how stupid an idea it is.

[Ban Hammer 14,794]

i don't see those stopping, nor is it really an entitlement in my eyes, as they've paid into it.

Well, you're not really on board the flat tax/no welfare train then.

to me an entitlement is something one is given for free, those you listed are something one pays into over their lifetime so i don't see how they could be considered to be an entitlement (unless, of course, you wish to discuss the "entitlement" of aged illegals getting amnesty and being instantly eligible medicare, ssn, and so on).

I'm not going to argue with you about what the word 'entitlement' means. I already explained to you what an entitlement program is on the federal level.

Before, I said that you don't seem to actually be on the flat tax/no welfare train then...a lot of people jump off when they realize just how stupid an idea it is.

i don't see why those can't still occur with a flat tax though.