Happy Belated Birthday to Uncle Ho!

[xgrnberet1 19]

This should be a more appropriate poem for HCM:

In Vietnam, not long ago

There lived a man whose name was Ho (as #######)

A resistant cowardly rebel, with views entrenched

He shamelessly announced he would learn Chinese

He set out to hide , always lending a hand ( to the Chinese)

His dream was to sell out in a free Vietnam (to the Chinese)

He saw the Chinese coming, the oppress , the bullies

For gathering Chines Yuan, they ( the HCM communist party) surrendered

He then thought May be he is right!

If I learn Chinese it will help negotiate the sales

So learn it he did and then set his price

To places where all the ordinary Vietnamese were victims as well

He came back years later from his China journey long

Where the Chinese were now the ones doing wrong

He formed a communist party that organized the sales

It taught them well at all the negotiate levels

The sales soon ended ( so they assumed ) and back came the Chinese again !!!!

Themselves the victors of sales plans

They refused to accept a beautiful wide open land of free Vietnam

But their senseless oppression would not last long.

Because, here come the HCM communist party to appeased.

[degreeofhope 2]

to the OP^

Did you know that in 1954 vietnam was supposed to have a free election for the people to vote for either Ho Chi Minh or Nguyen Dinh Diem as president of vietnam? yes vietnam as one country and one president NOT as north and south vietnam.

Then Ho Chi Minh give free land to the people of the north so they would vote him as president. The south said No Way Jose. So vietnam was divided into North and South. In the US, bribing people to vote for you is illegal.

During the war, HCM would kill your family in the north if you were pro-south vietnam. They took away their land. and HCM killed thousands of civilians, buried them alive during the Tet Offensive in 1968 because Hue cilivians are pro-south vietnam.

HCM came to China and asked Chairman Mao to help north vietnam fight against the US. In return HCM promised to give the two vietnamese islands, Spratly and Paracel islands to china when the war is over. China agreed.

After 1975 when south vietnam lost. HCM commies took away the land from the people that they gave before the war.

In 1979, China asked Vietnam for the two islands, Vietnam said No. So China invaded the northern border of Vietnam.

1980s, Former Soviets provided financial aids and foods to the vietnamese government. Vietnam saw Russians as comrades.

1989, Soviet fell and gave rise to Russia.

1994, No more financial aids from Russia. Vietnam government now turned to their old enemy, USA. Trade embargo lifted by Clinton. Now vietnam government see the USA as their comrades.

2000s, China's military power grew, so now China doesn't need to ask Vietnam for the two islands. They'll take it by force if neccessary. China knows they can take vietnam in a matter of days. No rush.

2000-now Vietnam governemnt cried foul to the international communities against China.

2013-future USA will NEVER help Vietnam against China. Why help a former enemy and a communist country against another communist country? The american public would never approve this.

Future - vietnam is doomed. Thanks to HCM. No country in the world can help vietnam.

At least, the south vietnamese seeked and destroyed commies. All the North commies did was kill south vietnamese civilians.

[BinhJerome 14]

Me and Mark do not get along but I have to agree with him on this one. The US lied to get us involved in Vietnam, we promised many Vietnamese people we would help, some of the war crimes we committed riveled that of the VC. Then when we left we left many holding the bag and we did not care. We knew what would happen, hell HCM even came to us BEFORE he went to Communism and asked for us to help him get rid of the French and we REFUSED. Thus he went to China and Russia and found support. Also the South Vietnamese government we propped up was far worse than HCM was. Hell we kept Pol Pot in Cambodia in power and if you have not heard about the killing fields then do some research. After we left Vietnam the North went through both Cambodia and Laos getting rid of those corrupt murderous rulers. War is hell no matter who you are there are always good sides and bad sides but HCM was a far better leader than those in the south. If you think Mark or I am a liar on the real start of the Vietnam war, look for the classified documents in the freedom of information act or look online for many of the true stories of the Vietnam war. I have tons of "American propaganda" films where it shows how much good we were doing, but when they talk about the entire village that OUR men slaughtered (men, women and children) they only talk for a minute on the subject and to give more insight there was only 1 person charged and convicted for that crime, he served 5 years in prison ohh wait I mean house arrest at his barracks (private residence at a military base.) I know the North did many bad things but we were no angels so don't try to sugar coat it

Edited July 14, 2013 by jeromebinh

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Me and Mark do not get along but I have to agree with him on this one. The US lied to get us involved in Vietnam, we promised many Vietnamese people we would help, some of the war crimes we committed riveled that of the VC. Then when we left we left many holding the bag and we did not care. We knew what would happen, hell HCM even came to us BEFORE he went to Communism and asked for us to help him get rid of the French and we REFUSED. Thus he went to China and Russia and found support. Also the South Vietnamese government we propped up was far worse than HCM was. Hell we kept Pol Pot in Cambodia in power and if you have not heard about the killing fields then do some research. After we left Vietnam the North went through both Cambodia and Laos getting rid of those corrupt murderous rulers. War is hell no matter who you are there are always good sides and bad sides but HCM was a far better leader than those in the south. If you think Mark or I am a liar on the real start of the Vietnam war, look for the classified documents in the freedom of information act or look online for many of the true stories of the Vietnam war. I have tons of "American propaganda" films where it shows how much good we were doing, but when they talk about the entire village that OUR men slaughtered (men, women and children) they only talk for a minute on the subject and to give more insight there was only 1 person charged and convicted for that crime, he served 5 years in prison ohh wait I mean house arrest at his barracks (private residence at a military base.) I know the North did many bad things but we were no angels so don't try to sugar coat it

I can go today to the plaza at UC Berkeley and make a speech decrying the hundreds of civilians who were killed by American troops at My Lai in 1968.

You can do the same thing in any public plaza in Saigon.

I can go today to the plaza at UC Berkeley and make a speech decrying the thousands of civilians who were killed by Viet Cong and NVA troops in Hue City in 1968.

Can you do the same thing in any public plaza in Saigon?

I can go today to the plaza at UC Berkeley, take out my acoustic guitar, and play "Viet Nam Toi Dau".

Can you do the same thing in any public plaza in Saigon?

There are millions of Viet Kieu living in America. The only ones who will publicly speak out against the Vietnamese government are the ones who will never return to Vietnam. I watched a man cry while waving a yellow RVN flag in front of the Vietnamese Consulate in San Francisco because he knew his small act of protest meant he would never see his family in Vietnam again.

Ho Chi Minh may have had noble intentions, but there are very few Viet Kieu living in the US who like what has become of their country thanks to him. There are many in Vietnam who feel the same way, but they'll never tell you the truth as long as they're living under the red flag. It would be healthy for you and Mark to spend some time among the Vietnamese community in the US.

[Gai Choi 0]

 

I can go today to the plaza at UC Berkeley and make a speech decrying the hundreds of civilians who were killed by American troops at My Lai in 1968.

You can do the same thing in any public plaza in Saigon.

I can go today to the plaza at UC Berkeley and make a speech decrying the thousands of civilians who were killed by Viet Cong and NVA troops in Hue City in 1968.

Can you do the same thing in any public plaza in Saigon?

I can go today to the plaza at UC Berkeley, take out my acoustic guitar, and play "Viet Nam Toi Dau".

Can you do the same thing in any public plaza in Saigon?

There are millions of Viet Kieu living in America. The only ones who will publicly speak out against the Vietnamese government are the ones who will never return to Vietnam. I watched a man cry while waving a yellow RVN flag in front of the Vietnamese Consulate in San Francisco because he knew his small act of protest meant he would never see his family in Vietnam again.

Ho Chi Minh may have had noble intentions, but there are very few Viet Kieu living in the US who like what has become of their country thanks to him. There are many in Vietnam who feel the same way, but they'll never tell you the truth as long as they're living under the red flag. It would be healthy for you and Mark to spend some time among the Vietnamese community in the US.

This morning (Thursday 07/25/2013) Truong Tan Sang met President Obama at the White House. There were waves of Vietnamese protesting in front of the White House.

Can this be done in Vietnam? Like when some high ranking Chinese gov't officials come to visit the VCs in Hanoi. Can the Vietnamese stand and protest PEACEFULLY?

Cricket chirping!

Ladies and Gentlemen! That's the difference between the USA and Vietnam. And that's why we have this forum and as of today, 2013, 35-plus years after the Vietnam war has ended, there are STILL lots of Vietnamese desiring to leave their Mother country!

Heck, even the children of the VCs will go abroad, mainly the US, to further their education. What a surprise!

I don't see any VNese crowding in front of the Russian and Cuban Embassy applying for Visa of any kind!

And I certainly don't see any demand for Russian ESL teacher either! (Russia and Lenin used to be "God" to the VCs.)

[BinhJerome 14]

I can go today to the plaza at UC Berkeley and make a speech decrying the hundreds of civilians who were killed by American troops at My Lai in 1968.

You can do the same thing in any public plaza in Saigon.

I can go today to the plaza at UC Berkeley and make a speech decrying the thousands of civilians who were killed by Viet Cong and NVA troops in Hue City in 1968.

Can you do the same thing in any public plaza in Saigon?

I can go today to the plaza at UC Berkeley, take out my acoustic guitar, and play "Viet Nam Toi Dau".

Can you do the same thing in any public plaza in Saigon?

There are millions of Viet Kieu living in America. The only ones who will publicly speak out against the Vietnamese government are the ones who will never return to Vietnam. I watched a man cry while waving a yellow RVN flag in front of the Vietnamese Consulate in San Francisco because he knew his small act of protest meant he would never see his family in Vietnam again.

Ho Chi Minh may have had noble intentions, but there are very few Viet Kieu living in the US who like what has become of their country thanks to him. There are many in Vietnam who feel the same way, but they'll never tell you the truth as long as they're living under the red flag. It would be healthy for you and Mark to spend some time among the Vietnamese community in the US.

Jim, we can argue about this all night and next week if we want to. The fact is that we say the VC and NVA did what they did in Hue but do we truly know for sure it was them? Seriously can you trust that it wasn't the Americans that were pissed off at the offensive and retaliated because of fallen brothers? Then to help the moral in the US we said it was the VC and NVA? Our country is clearly known for covering up things we did and lieing about what happened in Vietnam. I am not truly saying it was not the NVA or VC that did it but how do we know for sure. Facts are simple we fire bombed entire villages because we did not know if they were aiding the VC and it was easier to just fire bomb than to clear them out, we also know the facts that many people were killed by US troops for retaliation of fallen comrades. The sad truth about history is simple, history is written by the victors, and the only difference between a war hero and a war criminal is who won the war, case in point WWII with what we did to the civilians in Japan, we won so NO one was charged for those killings.

I can go today to the plaza at UC Berkeley and make a speech decrying the hundreds of civilians who were killed by American troops at My Lai in 1968.

You can do the same thing in any public plaza in Saigon.

I can go today to the plaza at UC Berkeley and make a speech decrying the thousands of civilians who were killed by Viet Cong and NVA troops in Hue City in 1968.

Can you do the same thing in any public plaza in Saigon?

I can go today to the plaza at UC Berkeley, take out my acoustic guitar, and play "Viet Nam Toi Dau".

Can you do the same thing in any public plaza in Saigon?

There are millions of Viet Kieu living in America. The only ones who will publicly speak out against the Vietnamese government are the ones who will never return to Vietnam. I watched a man cry while waving a yellow RVN flag in front of the Vietnamese Consulate in San Francisco because he knew his small act of protest meant he would never see his family in Vietnam again.

Ho Chi Minh may have had noble intentions, but there are very few Viet Kieu living in the US who like what has become of their country thanks to him. There are many in Vietnam who feel the same way, but they'll never tell you the truth as long as they're living under the red flag. It would be healthy for you and Mark to spend some time among the Vietnamese community in the US.

Jim, we can argue about this all night and next week if we want to. The fact is that we say the VC and NVA did what they did in Hue but do we truly know for sure it was them? Seriously can you trust that it wasn't the Americans that were pissed off at the offensive and retaliated because of fallen brothers? Then to help the moral in the US we said it was the VC and NVA? Our country is clearly known for covering up things we did and lieing about what happened in Vietnam. I am not truly saying it was not the NVA or VC that did it but how do we know for sure. Facts are simple we fire bombed entire villages because we did not know if they were aiding the VC and it was easier to just fire bomb than to clear them out, we also know the facts that many people were killed by US troops for retaliation of fallen comrades. The sad truth about history is simple, history is written by the victors, and the only difference between a war hero and a war criminal is who won the war, case in point WWII with what we did to the civilians in Japan, we won so NO one was charged for those killings.

You however are correct in many things you wrote about being able to gather and protest, but there are still more things in the US that are not so true anymore, look at Snoweden and a few other whistle blowers who have been targeted by the US government for standing up

[Teacher Mark 53]

Jerome, feel free to speak on my behalf! I'll just sit back and relax.

p.s. I assume you've earned that BA by now. You went after that thing like a bulldog and for that you should be commended.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Teacher Mark

[BinhJerome 14]

Jerome, feel free to speak on my behalf! I'll just sit back and relax.

p.s. I assume you've earned that BA by now. You went after that thing like a bulldog and for that you should be commended.

last july and us teaching liscense in hand

[Ho Chich Tu 0]

This morning (Thursday 07/25/2013) Truong Tan Sang met President Obama at the White House. There were waves of Vietnamese protesting in front of the White House.


Can this be done in Vietnam? Like when some high ranking Chinese gov't officials come to visit the VCs in Hanoi. Can the Vietnamese stand and protest PEACEFULLY?


Cricket chirping!


Ladies and Gentlemen! That's the difference between the USA and Vietnam. And that's why we have this forum and as of today, 2013, 35-plus years after the Vietnam war has ended, there are STILL lots of Vietnamese desiring to leave their Mother country!

Heck, even the children of the VCs will go abroad, mainly the US, to further their education. What a surprise!


I don't see any VNese crowding in front of the Russian and Cuban Embassy applying for Visa of any kind!

And I certainly don't see any demand for Russian ESL teacher either! (Russia and Lenin used to be "God" to the VCs.)

[Teacher Mark 53]

1.). Jerome, you're sittting in the proverbial cat- bird seat. Well done!

2.) I turned 47 the other day, so Happy Belated Birthday to me!

and

3.). I'm getting the impression that some of you don't like my ode to the Ho-ster? I see one of you made a laim attempt at a re-write. Imitation is the truest form of flattery, but I'm not seeking flattery and you should be seeking a dictionary and an unbiased historical accountt of HCM's role in the entire debauch we call the Vietnam War. America had no business getting involved to begin witth. Civil wars are always nasty and foreign interlopers usually make matters worse, as was the case here.

[Ho Chich Tu 0]

1.). Jerome, you're sittting in the proverbial cat- bird seat. Well done!

2.) I turned 47 the other day, so Happy Belated Birthday to me!

and

3.). I'm getting the impression that some of you don't like my ode to the Ho-ster? I see one of you made a laim attempt at a re-write. Imitation is the truest form of flattery, but I'm not seeking flattery and you should be seeking a dictionary and an unbiased historical accountt of HCM's role in the entire debauch we call the Vietnam War. America had no business getting involved to begin witth. Civil wars are always nasty and foreign interlopers usually make matters worse, as was the case here.

That means he was born in 1966 (assuming what he told us, being 47 years old was truthful). You were a kid sucking on milk bottles back then. What DO YOU KNOW about VietCong?

You think you are smart Mark. But when MILLIONS of Vietnamese abroad saying the SAME thing about the Vietcong regime, I'll side with the "MAJORITY".

One thing you all should notice about those people who praise the current VC regime is that they all talk about the past and IGNORE to comment on what's happenning RIGHT NOW. That is the Vietnamese can NOT exercise their rights of having freedom religion and peaceful assembly/protest to voice their concerns against their own gov't.