F1 visa marriage to US citizen in foreign country

[septembergirl 0]

Hi everyone,

I think there are a few topics similar, but I'm not sure if they apply to me 100%, so I'll write out my thoughts.

My fiance (F1 visa) and I (US citizen) met at school. We are both currently in PhD programs. We decided a few months ago to get married, and started looking into how to change status over to permanent residency.

We figured out that you cannot re-enter the US on an F1 visa after marrying in Korea (as we are planning). Since he is a PhD student, he cannot "wait" for a few months out of the country to get approved for a change of status. Therefore, it seems our ONLY option is to file for a change of status months before we leave to have our wedding ceremonies.

I have a few questions about this:

1a. What are my options to change his status? I feel like the only option is that we get legally married much in advance and then file for an adjustment of status to a "green card" (well it's not called that anymore apparently, but I'm used to the term!). Please let me know if there is another option for this! We both think that the combination of BOTH the wedding ceremony and the legal marriage certificate are "necessary" to be actually married--it may sound silly but we both are pretty traditionalist and would prefer not to live together before the ceremony [where we commit to each other in front of all our family and friends and are considered married according to the church]. Yes, I'm old fashioned, I know, haha. (I'm totally okay with other people who live together with or without intent of marriage, but my personal

1b. Related to 1a--if we do get legally married before, do we have to live together right away? Again, this is only because of our traditionalist views, and we CAN live together if this is what we have to do legally. I'd prefer to keep my personal values, but if they conflict with what's legal, obviously I will choose the legal route to avoid complications.

2. How long will it take (ballpark, aka 1 month? 3 months? 6 months? 5 years?), if our only option is to become legally married before our wedding?

3. He semi-recently got back from a trip out of the country, and he used his F1 visa to reenter the US. Will this raise red flags if we end up filing for a marriage certificate and file for an adjustment of status? How long should we wait? I heard that a 3 month break is usually considered reasonable. We weren't engaged until almost a month after he came back, so he entered with the F1 legally. I was just wondering how long we have to wait if we end up filing a marriage certificate before our "wedding".

This all seems silly I didn't realize that immigration law was so complicated! How complicated does it have to be to fall in love with someone who happens to not be a US citizen, get married where you want, and stay in the US?

Also, semi-related, how do you find a good/reputable/thorough immigration lawyer?

[amykathleen2005 441]

The easiest method would be to marry in a civil ceremony, file for AOS which will take up to 6 months and get a greencard. For AOS you will need to establish that you two are in fact married, such as financials, etc. It would be harder for you to prove you are living as married if you are not actually living together.

Would it be possible to to a church marriage in the US to fulfill the requirements while not violating your morals, and then a blessing in Korea in a few months?

[ChrisPG 30]

Hi everyone,

I think there are a few topics similar, but I'm not sure if they apply to me 100%, so I'll write out my thoughts.

My fiance (F1 visa) and I (US citizen) met at school. We are both currently in PhD programs. We decided a few months ago to get married, and started looking into how to change status over to permanent residency.

We figured out that you cannot re-enter the US on an F1 visa after marrying in Korea (as we are planning). Since he is a PhD student, he cannot "wait" for a few months out of the country to get approved for a change of status. Therefore, it seems our ONLY option is to file for a change of status months before we leave to have our wedding ceremonies.

I have a few questions about this:

1a. What are my options to change his status? I feel like the only option is that we get legally married much in advance and then file for an adjustment of status to a "green card" (well it's not called that anymore apparently, but I'm used to the term!). Please let me know if there is another option for this! We both think that the combination of BOTH the wedding ceremony and the legal marriage certificate are "necessary" to be actually married--it may sound silly but we both are pretty traditionalist and would prefer not to live together before the ceremony [where we commit to each other in front of all our family and friends and are considered married according to the church]. Yes, I'm old fashioned, I know, haha. (I'm totally okay with other people who live together with or without intent of marriage, but my personal

1b. Related to 1a--if we do get legally married before, do we have to live together right away? Again, this is only because of our traditionalist views, and we CAN live together if this is what we have to do legally. I'd prefer to keep my personal values, but if they conflict with what's legal, obviously I will choose the legal route to avoid complications.

2. How long will it take (ballpark, aka 1 month? 3 months? 6 months? 5 years?), if our only option is to become legally married before our wedding?

3. He semi-recently got back from a trip out of the country, and he used his F1 visa to reenter the US. Will this raise red flags if we end up filing for a marriage certificate and file for an adjustment of status? How long should we wait? I heard that a 3 month break is usually considered reasonable. We weren't engaged until almost a month after he came back, so he entered with the F1 legally. I was just wondering how long we have to wait if we end up filing a marriage certificate before our "wedding".

This all seems silly I didn't realize that immigration law was so complicated! How complicated does it have to be to fall in love with someone who happens to not be a US citizen, get married where you want, and stay in the US?

Also, semi-related, how do you find a good/reputable/thorough immigration lawyer?

You are greatly over-thinking this.

1a) There is only one method for him to adjust status and that is to get married and then filing the I-130/AOS package. It doesn't matter if you marry in a simple JOP wedding or have a grandiose white wedding, the only thing that does matter is that is is legally binding.

b) There is no legal obligation to live together either prior to being married or after you are married. Simply cite your traditional religious reasons as you have done and then propose a time-lime of sorts to establish such a residence together. This is perfectly acceptable. Remember, that simply living together is only ONE way to show a bona-fide marriage, there are many others.

2) Currently the I-130/AOS package is taking around 90 days to adjudicate, but it can take longer if you receive an RFE or processing times slow down. His EAD and AP should take around 60 days to be issued. Once he has his AP in hand, he can then leave the U.S. and re-enter without issue, just remember to return in time for the interview.

3) You can file tomorrow if you wish.

4) The only immigration attorneys that should be consulted are those that are AILA approved.

Edited July 3, 2012 by ChrisPG

[grrrrreat 109]

You are greatly over-thinking this.

1a) There is only one method for him to adjust status and that is to get married and then filing the I-130/AOS package. It doesn't matter if you marry in a simple JOP wedding or have a grandiose white wedding, the only thing that does matter is that is is legally binding.

b) There is no legal obligation to live together either prior to being married or after you are married. Simply cite your traditional religious reasons as you have done and then propose a time-lime of sorts to establish such a residence together. This is perfectly acceptable. Remember, that simply living together is only ONE way to show a bona-fide marriage, there are many others.

2) Currently the I-130/AOS package is taking around 90 days to adjudicate, but it can take longer if you receive an RFE or processing times slow down. His EAD and AP should take around 60 days to be issued. Once he has his AP in hand, he can then leave the U.S. and re-enter without issue, just remember to return in time for the interview.

3) You can file tomorrow if you wish.

4) The only immigration attorneys that should be consulted are those that are AILA approved.

Sorry I have a couple quibbles. I think you're underthinking things a bit.

First, I don't agree that not living together after marriage isn't a problem. It doesn't guarantee a rejection, but it's a big red flag and it will need to be overcome with a lot of other evidence and a very good explanation.

Also, it's taking much much longer than 90 days to adjudicate adjustment of status applications for new I-130s--more like 5-6 months. It's taking longer than 60 days for AP as well--more like 90 days (where are you getting your dates from?)

They can't file tomorrow because it's unlikely they could get a license, get married, and collect bona fide evidence. I understand your point is that there's no definite time limit, but it's a little more difficult than you suggest. If they file on the same day that they get a license, don't have good bona fide evidence, and aren't living together, I predict a rejection.

Edited July 4, 2012 by grrrrreat

[ChrisPG 30]

Sorry I have a couple quibbles. I think you're underthinking things a bit.

First, I don't agree that not living together after marriage isn't a problem. It doesn't guarantee a rejection, but it's a big red flag and it will need to be overcome with a lot of other evidence and a very good explanation.

Also, it's taking much much longer than 90 days to adjudicate adjustment of status applications for new I-130s--more like 5-6 months. It's taking longer than 60 days for AP as well--more like 90 days (where are you getting your dates from?)

They can't file tomorrow because it's unlikely they could get a license, get married, and collect bona fide evidence. I understand your point is that there's no definite time limit, but it's a little more difficult than you suggest. If they file on the same day that they get a license, don't have good bona fide evidence, and aren't living together, I predict a rejection.

With all due respect, I never said that it wasn't a problem. I just know that there are plenty of married couples who do not live together and are in a bona-fide relationship who could prove as much. As I said, living together is just one piece of evidence, but it is not the only piece. Many married couples live apart due to work, school and even religious reasons, but have joint finances, insurances and are listed as beneficiaries on various other expects of life from 401Ks to life insurance to wills/power of attorneys-- the list is endless.

Furthermore, I did go on to state that a good reason and perhaps even a time-lime which shows how you intend to domicile together in the not too distant future will go along way to dispelling the red-flag, I do agree however that simply saying "we don't live together, but we are bonafide" just isn't enough-- if they do not live together then a strong reason and even stronger evidence of a bona-fide relationship is going to be needed.

Secondly, I have just gone through the I-130/AOS process and my times reflect the average time frames between the January, February, March & April filers. Most of the AOS cases are being completely adjudicated around 90 days from filing. Mine was completed in 118 days (approved on day 114), but I also had 22 days of inactivity due to an RFE-- which would put me at a 96 day completion (92 days for approval)-- as I said, my times are an average. EAD and AP are the same, most appear to get approval at around the 60 day mark and the card arrives shortly there-after. Now, those adjusting from a K1 and whose cases get transferred-- now that timeline is more like 6-7 months! FWIW, a cursory look at the May and June filers appear to be keeping with this time also.

Granted, timelines change and in any given month more applications could be received and a backlog could form and maybe come November we start seeing the process taking more like 6 months, but right now-- that is not the current trend for straight forward AOS cases-- I think most of my March group were approved within 90-100 days.

Well of course they need to be married, by filing "tomorrow" I was being a little tongue-in-cheek-- technically speaking they can file the day that their marriage license is in hand, but they likely won't have very strong evidence, but they could still file.

Edited July 4, 2012 by ChrisPG

[GlobeHopperMama 95]

This all seems silly I didn't realize that immigration law was so complicated! How complicated does it have to be to fall in love with someone who happens to not be a US citizen, get married where you want, and stay in the US?

I wish someone had the answer to this question. I've been searching for the answer for 4 years.

Also, semi-related, how do you find a good/reputable/thorough immigration lawyer?

This is tricky. The only real way I've found is through word-of-mouth from people who have similar cases/circumstances and have personally had a good lawyer work on their case. Most lawyers look good online when you research them, but it's hard to know which will really help and know their stuff and which will take your money and kind of flounder about. One good thing is that immigration law is federal, so you can use a lawyer from anywhere, and I think it's better to work with a good one long-distance than an iffy one locally. My lawyer is in Texas and I was in Chicago (now in Seoul). I also have worked with two other excellent lawyers, one in Milwaukee and one in Boston. I can personally recommend Laura Fernandez and Lizz Cannon who both do free consultations. I don't think you'll need to pay a lawyer to actually do your immigration process, but it would be a very good idea to consult with one while you figure out your options and decide which way best meets your goals.

[septembergirl 0]

The easiest method would be to marry in a civil ceremony, file for AOS which will take up to 6 months and get a greencard. For AOS you will need to establish that you two are in fact married, such as financials, etc. It would be harder for you to prove you are living as married if you are not actually living together.

Would it be possible to to a church marriage in the US to fulfill the requirements while not violating your morals, and then a blessing in Korea in a few months?

Thanks for the reply! The topic wasn't notifying me of replies, sorry for the late response.

I think it would be too complicated to set it up. I guess what I meant by traditionalist is that I would prefer to live together after getting married, which has always in my view been the wedding ceremony (aka public proclamation of til death do us part etc etc). We're looking into quick small ceremony options though. I think the whole "moving in together" is also complicated because my fiance has just started a 1 year lease with a group of friends and we can't find a suitable sublet on short notice--so even if we pay out his lease ourselves, on paper it will look like we live separate (or that for some reason he has 2 residences in the same county), which I was worried would raise red flags.

[septembergirl 0]

With all due respect, I never said that it wasn't a problem. I just know that there are plenty of married couples who do not live together and are in a bona-fide relationship who could prove as much. As I said, living together is just one piece of evidence, but it is not the only piece. Many married couples live apart due to work, school and even religious reasons, but have joint finances, insurances and are listed as beneficiaries on various other expects of life from 401Ks to life insurance to wills/power of attorneys-- the list is endless.

Furthermore, I did go on to state that a good reason and perhaps even a time-lime which shows how you intend to domicile together in the not too distant future will go along way to dispelling the red-flag, I do agree however that simply saying "we don't live together, but we are bonafide" just isn't enough-- if they do not live together then a strong reason and even stronger evidence of a bona-fide relationship is going to be needed.

Secondly, I have just gone through the I-130/AOS process and my times reflect the average time frames between the January, February, March & April filers. Most of the AOS cases are being completely adjudicated around 90 days from filing. Mine was completed in 118 days (approved on day 114), but I also had 22 days of inactivity due to an RFE-- which would put me at a 96 day completion (92 days for approval)-- as I said, my times are an average. EAD and AP are the same, most appear to get approval at around the 60 day mark and the card arrives shortly there-after. Now, those adjusting from a K1 and whose cases get transferred-- now that timeline is more like 6-7 months! FWIW, a cursory look at the May and June filers appear to be keeping with this time also.

Granted, timelines change and in any given month more applications could be received and a backlog could form and maybe come November we start seeing the process taking more like 6 months, but right now-- that is not the current trend for straight forward AOS cases-- I think most of my March group were approved within 90-100 days.

Well of course they need to be married, by filing "tomorrow" I was being a little tongue-in-cheek-- technically speaking they can file the day that their marriage license is in hand, but they likely won't have very strong evidence, but they could still file.

Thanks for the reply! The topic wasn't notifying me of replies, sorry for the late response.

Does I-130, and I-485 (concurrent filing for AOS for spouse case, right?) approval mean that you are approved for permanent residency or is this a sort of intermediate visa? I noticed in your timeline your interview and actual perm residency approval were a little later.

What sorts of things will cause them to a send an RFE and does this usually happen in 1 round or multiple rounds?

[ChrisPG 30]

Does I-130, and I-485 (concurrent filing for AOS for spouse case, right?) approval mean that you are approved for permanent residency or is this a sort of intermediate visa? I noticed in your timeline your interview and actual perm residency approval were a little later.

A visa is just a document that is issued to a person so that they can seek permission to enter a country, once you are inside of the U.S. the visa is largely irrelevant until a time when you need to seek re-entry. When you are given permission to enter the U.S. you are entered into the country on a status, in your case (and mine) we were given "F1" status. When you file Form I-485, you are requesting to *adjust* that status from a F1 to Permanent Residency-- you are not applying for a new visa.

After your interview, some people receive their approval almost immediately or at least in the same day, for others it is 48-36 hours (like mine) and for the unlucky few, it can t take even longer to reach a decision, but from recent filers on VJ-- the vast majority are seeing approval emails within 24-36 hours of their interview. The green card arrives shortly after the approval.

What sorts of things will cause them to a send an RFE and does this usually happen in 1 round or multiple rounds?

Oh, anything can cause them to send an RFE. My RFE was for further tax documents, others have been sent one for birth certificates and missing signatures. I mean really, they can issue you an RFE for pretty much anything that wish and they can be issued at anytime, even on the day of your interview.

My advise is to read the instructions to EACH Form and once you have read them, go ahead and read them again and write down everything that each Form asks of you from passport photos to the number of G325As to copies of your marriage cert. Then start building your AOS package. All of the planning and prep will go a long way in helping to reduce the chances of receiving an RFE and delaying the process.

Edited July 10, 2012 by ChrisPG