West Virginia Republican: The minimum wage is archaic

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

You have it wrong - I was raised on the dark side of the iron curtain. I am well aware of the history of the wall and why it was built. And I know what the Berlin Airlift was - one of the greatest accomplishments of the US military ever. Yes, it was the US that kept the Soviets from advancing their control over Europe any more than they had as a result of WWII. And yet, none of that disputes what I have said here previously: that all of it was done as a result of sheer US self interest. The defense of West Berlin, the rebuilding of the Western part of Germany and Western Europe and NATO - all of that served what the US had defined as it's foreign policy goal: containment. Go read up on the Truman doctrine. It's all right there. And that is really all there is to it.

Well ya it served the US. Do you think the US would want to have to fight another war in Europe ...this time against the USSR ? We already jumped into two world wars over in Europe, why would the US want to have to fight a third one in Europe ? Sans the reason for NATO and US military bases. If Europe could get it's act together the US wouldn't have to worry about keeping bases over there.

Last time I checked, Belarus and Russia were both being run by dictators, and Ukraine is well on it's way. Is there any army in Europe other than the Russian army that is a formidable force ? NATO and nothing else. If the EU actually had an army the US wouldn't have to worry about keeping bases over there now would we ?

[mawilson 2,133]

Last time I checked, Belarus and Russia were both being run by dictators, and Ukraine is well on it's way.

Maybe you should check your sources.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Maybe you should check your sources.

You have google search ? Belarus has had the same president since 1994...he was a Kremlin installed puppet not to mention he has rigged all the elections, his government controls ALL the media, and he has a human rights record right up there with Iran. Now what constitutes a dictator in your book ?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/bo.html

Government type:

republic in name, although in fact a dictatorship

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/1102180.stm

Belarus country profile

Russia <--- You tell me what's democratic about this country.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/1102275.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/03/russia.eu

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20101017rp.html

Ukraine 2010

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/22/ukraine-failing-eu-democracy-test

[mawilson 2,133]

Belarus - perhaps, but Russia and Ukraine?

There's a huge difference between a dictatorship and a fledgling democracy, however imperfect but improving over time and with the promise of a democratic future.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Belarus - perhaps, but Russia and Ukraine?

There's a huge difference between a dictatorship and a fledgling democracy, however imperfect but improving over time and with the promise of a democratic future.

That's just it...they are not improving. They are actually getting worse. Russia is a one party state. Even the OSCE said the elections in Russia were so controlled and biased that they couldn't be considered democratic elections by any means of the word. Now you throw in the Kremlin putting hits on journalist, authors, human rights workers and anyone else it deems a serious threat and that makes Russia a... ??? Now you have the Kremlin buying out (nationalizing) the major media outlets, changing the Russian constitution, nationalizing the gas/oil and electric company's and using them as a weapon for negotiations and that makes Russia what...a fledgling democracy ? Then you take the vote away from the people in regards to electing the governors of the Russian oblast (regions), and the mayor's of major city's such as Moscow and St. Petersburg so that you can install your fellow KGB crony's and that makes Russia...?

Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Latvia..etc.. now those are fledgling democracy's. Russia is a experiment gone bad that's run by ex KGB who could give two sh*ts less about democracy, freedom of speech, and human rights.

Now take Ukraine. Ukraine's new president Yanukovych is not only a former convict and thief, he was involved in the rigged presidential elections of 2004 along with his mentor Vladimir Putin. He has already changed the Ukrainian constitution so that the next elections favor the ruling party.

Belarus...LOL...nothing needed to be said about this country. Lukashenko was installed by Putin in the promise that Lukashenko would hand Belarus over to Russia on a silver platter. Politically correct word was "union" of the two country's. Since then Lukashenko has had most of his political rivals "disappear"...for good. He controls all the media in Belarus, and he has squashed any and all opposition that he deemed any kind of threat to his rule. He's a one man show.

"Fledgling democracy" doesn't fly for these three country's. They have had plenty of time to get their sh*t together and instead of doing what was needed they regressed back into what those country's have always been...dictatorships who could give two sh*ts less about it's citizens rights.

[Danno 1,228]

That's just it...they are not improving. They are actually getting worse. Russia is a one party state. Even the OSCE said the elections in Russia were so controlled and biased that they couldn't be considered democratic elections by any means of the word. Now you throw in the Kremlin putting hits on journalist, authors, human rights workers and anyone else it deems a serious threat and that makes Russia a... ??? Now you have the Kremlin buying out (nationalizing) the major media outlets, changing the Russian constitution, nationalizing the gas/oil and electric company's and using them as a weapon for negotiations and that makes Russia what...a fledgling democracy ? Then you take the vote away from the people in regards to electing the governors of the Russian oblast (regions), and the mayor's of major city's such as Moscow and St. Petersburg so that you can install your fellow KGB crony's and that makes Russia...?

Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Latvia..etc.. now those are fledgling democracy's. Russia is a experiment gone bad that's run by ex KGB who could give two sh*ts less about democracy, freedom of speech, and human rights.

Now take Ukraine. Ukraine's new president Yanukovych is not only a former convict and thief, he was involved in the rigged presidential elections of 2004 along with his mentor Vladimir Putin. He has already changed the Ukrainian constitution so that the next elections favor the ruling party.

Belarus...LOL...nothing needed to be said about this country. Lukashenko was installed by Putin in the promise that Lukashenko would hand Belarus over to Russia on a silver platter. Politically correct word was "union" of the two country's. Since then Lukashenko has had most of his political rivals "disappear"...for good. He controls all the media in Belarus, and he has squashed any and all opposition that he deemed any kind of threat to his rule. He's a one man show.

"Fledgling democracy" doesn't fly for these three country's. They have had plenty of time to get their sh*t together and instead of doing what was needed they regressed back into what those country's have always been...dictatorships who could give two sh*ts less about it's citizens rights.

While I have my concerns too, I reserve the possibility that Russia could be evolving into something between the old and the new.

As we have championed Democracy as the answer... we have watched a number of elections place Muslim extremist actually in power.

One thing many of us have learned in the last decade is Democracy is not for all peoples, if that is true.... whats the next option?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

While I have my concerns too, I reserve the possibility that Russia could be evolving into something between the old and the new.

As we have championed Democracy as the answer... we have watched a number of elections place Muslim extremist actually in power.

One thing many of us have learned in the last decade is Democracy is not for all peoples, if that is true.... whats the next option?

I'm not sure what the next option is. I think Russia will end up something like China as far as the government goes. If you put the populations of Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine together you have one sizable population not to mention land mass. Russia in the past hasn't exactly been the harbinger of peace as far as Europe and Russia's Asiatic neighbors go. NATO is working on a missile shield for Europe so hopefully that will contain Russia as far as any westward advances.

It's too bad it worked out this way for Russia and Belarus. Both of those country's had the opportunity to turn things around and join mainstream Europe. Instead they both regressed into their old ways and now they are the scourge of Europe once again.

[Danno 1,228]

I'm not sure what the next option is. I think Russia will end up something like China as far as the government goes. If you put the populations of Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine together you have one sizable population not to mention land mass. Russia in the past hasn't exactly been the harbinger of peace as far as Europe and Russia's Asiatic neighbors go. NATO is working on a missile shield for Europe so hopefully that will contain Russia as far as any westward advances.

It's too bad it worked out this way for Russia and Belarus. Both of those country's had the opportunity to turn things around and join mainstream Europe. Instead they both regressed into their old ways and now they are the scourge of Europe once again.

I don't get what you are saying.... of course you keep putting these three countries in the same category so that make conversation clumsy.

Your sentiment seems to fit Belarus more than the other two.

For example, if the people of Russia have a higher opinion of their leader than we have had of ours last two presidents.... how is it "it's too bad for them"?

If the Russian people were crying out for a new political ruling party.. that would be one thing but I have found the opposite to be more true.

If the Russian people can live with their government...who am I to say they are doing it wrong?

It's quite possible Putin has looked at the trajectory of the Rest of Europe and is preparing for those changes.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I don't get what you are saying.... of course you keep putting these three countries in the same category so that make conversation clumsy.

Your sentiment seems to fit Belarus more than the other two.

For example, if the people of Russia have a higher opinion of their leader than we have had of ours last two presidents.... how is it "it's too bad for them"?

If the Russian people were crying out for a new political ruling party.. that would be one thing but I have found the opposite to be more true.

If the Russian people can live with their government...who am I to say they are doing it wrong?

It's quite possible Putin has looked at the trajectory of the Rest of Europe and is preparing for those changes.

It's bad for Russia's neighbors, it's bad for the rest of the Russians who aren't brainwashed and do want democracy. It's bad for Ukraine and Belarus seeing how Russia has nothing short of a stranglehold on those two country's. It's bad for democratic Europe who doesn't want to have to worry about a Russia governed by a bunch of KGB thugs who have a stranglehold on the government and are in the process of brainwashing the Russian population into thinking that getting Russia's old Tsarist borders back to it's original state isn't a bad thing.

When you have a government that thinks nothing of putting a bullet into the back of the heads of people it deems a threat to their dictatorship that yes it's a bad thing.

I hate to use wikipedia for a link, but any of the information on the wiki page can be easily verified.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/09/world/main2073139.shtml

http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/russian-journalists-killed-oped-cx_ds_1226satter.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

As far as the brainwashing goes...look no further than the Kremlin and it's KGB run Russian Orthodox Church. The last three ROC Patriarchs have been KGB agents including the current Patriarch Alexie. The Kremlin uses the ROC like a pimp uses his prostitute. Check out the dealing of the ROC in regards to Ukraine, the Crim, not to mention further Russification in Belarus.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2163481.ece <--- another good read.

[Danno 1,228]

It's bad for Russia's neighbors, it's bad for the rest of the Russians who aren't brainwashed and do want democracy. It's bad for Ukraine and Belarus seeing how Russia has nothing short of a stranglehold on those two country's. It's bad for democratic Europe who doesn't want to have to worry about a Russia governed by a bunch of KGB thugs who have a stranglehold on the government and are in the process of brainwashing the Russian population into thinking that getting Russia's old Tsarist borders back to it's original state isn't a bad thing.

When you have a government that thinks nothing of putting a bullet into the back of the heads of people it deems a threat to their dictatorship that yes it's a bad thing.

I hate to use wikipedia for a link, but any of the information on the wiki page can be easily verified.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/09/world/main2073139.shtml

http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/russian-journalists-killed-oped-cx_ds_1226satter.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

As far as the brainwashing goes...look no further than the Kremlin and it's KGB run Russian Orthodox Church. The last three ROC Patriarchs have been KGB agents including the current Patriarch Alexie. The Kremlin uses the ROC like a pimp uses his prostitute. Check out the dealing of the ROC in regards to Ukraine, the Crim, not to mention further Russification in Belarus.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2163481.ece <--- another good read.

Again, the bottom line is" The people are content with their Government... more so than we are with ours in fact.

Are you suggesting they should choose their political leaders and systems based on what their neighbors want?

As far as Russia and her Neighbors....it is some surprise that Russia would exert influence over them for security reasons alone?

NATO was a force to combat the USSR, when the USSR ceased to exists we not only maintained NATO but we expanded it on all sides of Russia.

Would we welcome such a military presence in Mexico and Cuba?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Again, the bottom line is" The people are content with their Government... more so than we are with ours in fact.

Are you suggesting they should choose their political leaders and systems based on what their neighbors want?

As far as Russia and her Neighbors....it is some surprise that Russia would exert influence over them for security reasons alone?

NATO was a force to combat the USSR, when the USSR ceased to exists we not only maintained NATO but we expanded it on all sides of Russia.

Would we welcome such a military presence in Mexico and Cuba?

With the exception of Belarus, Russia's neighbors...all of Eastern Europe begged to get into NATO once the USSR went belly up. Why ? Because they know Russia and Russians only too well. Look at Russia's response when Estonia relocated the "Bronze Soldier". Don't forget Chechnya, and Georgia. Russians only understand might, and that's why NATO exist in Europe. Take a look at Russia's history. History has a habit of repeating itself, and whey you have the Kremlin brainwashing an already brainwashed nationalistic people that would love nothing better than to revive the former USSR...well it speaks for itself.

[Danno 1,228]

With the exception of Belarus, Russia's neighbors...all of Eastern Europe begged to get into NATO once the USSR went belly up. Why ? Because they know Russia and Russians only too well. Look at Russia's response when Estonia relocated the "Bronze Soldier". Don't forget Chechnya, and Georgia. Russians only understand might, and that's why NATO exist in Europe. Take a look at Russia's history. History has a habit of repeating itself, and whey you have the Kremlin brainwashing an already brainwashed nationalistic people that would love nothing better than to revive the former USSR...well it speaks for itself.

But you never answered my questions again.

Are you suggesting they should choose their political leaders and systems based on what their neighbors want?

As far as Russia and her Neighbors....it is some surprise that Russia would exert influence over them for security reasons alone?

Would we welcome such a military presence in Mexico and Cuba?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Well ya it served the US. Do you think the US would want to have to fight another war in Europe ...this time against the USSR ?

How would the US be dragged into a war against a nation that no longer exists? This is where your entire argument falls apart - the USSR has ceased to exist over two decades ago. The containment of the USSR was US self interest. Sure, it benefitted Europe but it was US self interest all the same.

If the US didn't have any interest in maintaining - indeed expanding - it's influence in Europe, those bases would be gone. Don't try to pretend otherwise.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

How would the US be dragged into a war against a nation that no longer exists? This is where your entire argument falls apart - the USSR has ceased to exist over two decades ago. The containment of the USSR was US self interest. Sure, it benefitted Europe but it was US self interest all the same.

If the US didn't have any interest in maintaining - indeed expanding - it's influence in Europe, those bases would be gone. Don't try to pretend otherwise.

Who cares if the USSR is gone ? Look at the links I posted. And again the US does have interest. Do you think the US wants to lose lives again like it did during the previous two world wars ? Take a good look at Europe's track record. If it wasn't for the US and NATO, Europe would be screwed as it usual. As a German, you should know better than most on here how Europeans have a bad habit of screwing their neighbors from time to time. When's the last time you read about the US, Mexico, and Canada invading each other ?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Who cares if the USSR is gone ? Look at the links I posted. And again the US does have interest. Do you think the US wants to lose lives again like it did during the previous two world wars ? Take a good look at Europe's track record. If it wasn't for the US and NATO, Europe would be screwed as it usual. As a German, you should know better than most on here how Europeans have a bad habit of screwing their neighbors from time to time. When's the last time you read about the US, Mexico, and Canada invading each other ?

Well, you keep fearing an enemy that collapsed two decades ago. That makes no sense. Perhaps you'd recognize that Europe has grown together since WWII. That cooperation and diplomacy have replaced arms races between the countries.