Engagement Timing

[JDF 0]

Hi,

Sorry one more thing, I have known my Fiance about 2 years and we got engaged on her Birthday on 6/19/06 and I gave a promise ring(was my Grandmothers) and I plan on giving her an engagement ring on my trip in 2 weeks but I plan on sending my I-129 packet this week. Should I submit the receipt in the package?

What should I do????

Thanks,

JDF

[Mew 0]

You might want to send it with the application. But it's not a requirement. Focus on sending them proof of having met within the last 2 years.

[dwar49 0]

Again receipt of a engagement ring does not prove you have met in person, dont worry about it, there is no requirement for buying a ring

Jeezzzz, this is not hard guys, you need to provide evidence of having met in the last 2 years.

You answer how you met with the supplemental sheet, there is where you paint the picture of your relationship and when you met, then the evidence, passport stamps, receipts, ticket stubs, boarding passes, pictures etc, back up what you said in answering the question.

[Mew 0]

Jeezzzz, this is not hard guys, you need to provide evidence of having met in the last 2 years.

Dwar-san, are you losing patience? You'll have to... clean windows for 3 hours if you are!

[dwar49 0]

Okay deep breath and back to answering questions.

Sorry for being impatient at times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JDF 0]

apologies, just getting last minute jitters sending the packet. I want to eliminate possible RFE, which is why is am trying to make sure I am sending the correct info.

I really do appreciate all your help with this process.

JDF

[Mew 0]

In that case, read throught the pinned RFE thread.

[gcox457 0]

Again receipt of a engagement ring does not prove you have met in person, dont worry about it, there is no requirement for buying a ring

Jeezzzz, this is not hard guys, you need to provide evidence of having met in the last 2 years.

You answer how you met with the supplemental sheet, there is where you paint the picture of your relationship and when you met, then the evidence, passport stamps, receipts, ticket stubs, boarding passes, pictures etc, back up what you said in answering the question.

Your exasperation is unwarranted....mainly because your reasoning doesn't represent the end-all reality of the situation. Yes, the meeting within 2 years is the primary concern in the big scheme of things. However, if you'll look closely, there is also a concrete requirement to establish intent to marry within 2 years. From the I-129F:

Provide original statements from you and yourfiancé(e) whom you plan to marry within 90 days of his or her admission, and copies of any evidence you wish to submit to establish your mutual intent;

Copies of a receipt for an engagement ring certainly falls within the realm of establishing mutual intent. While it's probable that the original statements carry far more weight than other evidence to that end...you certainly shouldn't DIScourage people from sending such things as it further strengthens the case for a requirement spelled out in the I-129F.

[dwar49 0]

Again receipt of a engagement ring does not prove you have met in person, dont worry about it, there is no requirement for buying a ring

Jeezzzz, this is not hard guys, you need to provide evidence of having met in the last 2 years.

You answer how you met with the supplemental sheet, there is where you paint the picture of your relationship and when you met, then the evidence, passport stamps, receipts, ticket stubs, boarding passes, pictures etc, back up what you said in answering the question.

Your exasperation is unwarranted....mainly because your reasoning doesn't represent the end-all reality of the situation. Yes, the meeting within 2 years is the primary concern in the big scheme of things. However, if you'll look closely, there is also a concrete requirement to establish intent to marry within 2 years. From the I-129F:

Provide original statements from you and yourfiancé(e) whom you plan to marry within 90 days of his or her admission, and copies of any evidence you wish to submit to establish your mutual intent;

Copies of a receipt for an engagement ring certainly falls within the realm of establishing mutual intent. While it's probable that the original statements carry far more weight than other evidence to that end...you certainly shouldn't DIScourage people from sending such things as it further strengthens the case for a requirement spelled out in the I-129F.

Okay I already apologized for the comment, so wont go into that, however

I challenge anyone to prove to me that showing that they had bought rings had any effect on their petition. The statement letters signed by both my fiancee and the evidence that we had met within the two year time period was all that was needed. I did explain that the seemingly best way to stop RFEs was to write a coherent statement outlining your relationship and providing evidence of with things that were substantial that backed that up.

The problem is that so many people get hung up on the ring thing, worrying about when to buy them what the receipt says etc. They need to understand that buying a ring and sending a receipt of purchace means little or nothing and if they are hanging their petition on that then they need to get more evidence.

[BPM-MVS 0]

I too bought an engagement ring a proposed to my girl. I didn't include a receipt but did send many pictures of us and her Mother together while she clearly had the ring. I thought family photos spoke louder than anything!

[dwar49 0]

I too bought an engagement ring a proposed to my girl. I didn't include a receipt but did send many pictures of us and her Mother together while she clearly had the ring. I thought family photos spoke louder than anything!

Pictures are a good thing, but did you provide evidence that those pictures were taken in the last two years? Pictures are secondary evidence, not primary.

[BPM-MVS 0]

YES! Airline Boarding passes, Apartment rentals, ticket stubs from Ekaterinburg Ballet with photos of us there, etc. I hope I covered it but who knows for certain when the evil RFE may creep up

[dwar49 0]

YES! Airline Boarding passes, Apartment rentals, ticket stubs from Ekaterinburg Ballet with photos of us there, etc. I hope I covered it but who knows for certain when the evil RFE may creep up

You are right there, but as long as you built a good case in your answer to question 18, and provided the evidence to back up that statement you should be okay.

[gcox457 0]

Again receipt of a engagement ring does not prove you have met in person, dont worry about it, there is no requirement for buying a ring

Jeezzzz, this is not hard guys, you need to provide evidence of having met in the last 2 years.

You answer how you met with the supplemental sheet, there is where you paint the picture of your relationship and when you met, then the evidence, passport stamps, receipts, ticket stubs, boarding passes, pictures etc, back up what you said in answering the question.

Your exasperation is unwarranted....mainly because your reasoning doesn't represent the end-all reality of the situation. Yes, the meeting within 2 years is the primary concern in the big scheme of things. However, if you'll look closely, there is also a concrete requirement to establish intent to marry within 2 years. From the I-129F:

Provide original statements from you and yourfiancé(e) whom you plan to marry within 90 days of his or her admission, and copies of any evidence you wish to submit to establish your mutual intent;

Copies of a receipt for an engagement ring certainly falls within the realm of establishing mutual intent. While it's probable that the original statements carry far more weight than other evidence to that end...you certainly shouldn't DIScourage people from sending such things as it further strengthens the case for a requirement spelled out in the I-129F.

Okay I already apologized for the comment, so wont go into that, however

I challenge anyone to prove to me that showing that they had bought rings had any effect on their petition. The statement letters signed by both my fiancee and the evidence that we had met within the two year time period was all that was needed. I did explain that the seemingly best way to stop RFEs was to write a coherent statement outlining your relationship and providing evidence of with things that were substantial that backed that up.

The problem is that so many people get hung up on the ring thing, worrying about when to buy them what the receipt says etc. They need to understand that buying a ring and sending a receipt of purchace means little or nothing and if they are hanging their petition on that then they need to get more evidence.

Fair enough...I read your subsequent post after I had made my own.

And about the ring receipt...as I said, the signed statements carry far more weight than other evidence in establishing mutual intent. However, just because omission of something won't trigger an RFE, that's no reason to tell people NOT to send it in, especially when it is specifically asked for in the form instructions. In some cases, for whatever reason, mutual intent might not be entirely clear based on what was written...but other evidence might shore things up for the adjudicator. Your points are taken, but the logic behind them seems flawed to me when used as justification for your previous statements considering the "moving target" of arguments used.

In any case, the point is that it is rather misleading to tell people that they shouldn't send something that is specifically asked for in the instructions...regardless of whether or not the omission will trigger an RFE. In then end, one would be wise to fulfill as much of the written requirements posed by the I-129F instructions as possible, using all available evidence. It's better to send it when it doesn't make a difference, than omit it when it might (emphasis on "might") have made a difference.

I'm not here to pick a fight, but rather nudge folks into encouraging newbies into thinking about the "total package" of evidence for each and every bullet point in the application. Making a multi-layered case based on many types of evidence which all point to the same conclusion is the goal everyone should shoot for in every dealing they have with this process. Often, the "whole" becomes worth much more than the simple sum of the parts. It's always better to leave an adjudicator completely convinced by an airtight case composed of a matrix of proof rather than purposely leaving out supporting evidence just because someone told you "it's not that big of a deal..just leave it out".

If everyone would think like that as they were putting together their packages, there would be a lot less RFE's overall.

[dwar49 0]

Again receipt of a engagement ring does not prove you have met in person, dont worry about it, there is no requirement for buying a ring

Jeezzzz, this is not hard guys, you need to provide evidence of having met in the last 2 years.

You answer how you met with the supplemental sheet, there is where you paint the picture of your relationship and when you met, then the evidence, passport stamps, receipts, ticket stubs, boarding passes, pictures etc, back up what you said in answering the question.

I am not here to pick fights either, so if I have said anything out of line, accept my apology.

Only last comment that I want to make,

I never said dont include it, the point I was making is that it is not proof of having met in last 2 years, nor is it proof that you intend to marry (possible evidence for intent but that is all). As I said earlier, if that is all they have, then they need to get more evidence and not to get hung up on the ring thing.

Lets just agree to disagree on this one, what I am trying to get people to realize is that they need to build their case in their answer to question 18, and back it up with evidence that proves what they said in the answer. If they do that, they should be home free.

As a consession to the fact that I respect your advice, i will make the point about the intent to marry thing in further answers so that OPS get all the info available.

Edited August 8, 2006 by dwar49