The truth about racial profiling!

[KaiserD 12]

I can honestly say that there are many times I look and judge people by their dress, appereance, etc.

I will go further to say I often second guess my own comments because I feel very sensitive around people if I say soemthing to the effect "what was that black guys name?" ..why didn't I say "what was that guys name?". No offense was meant in the statement and none is typically taken but I feel I should have said it in the latter form.

I beleiev everyone has that problem in some form.

But it's not wrong to make an observation that's an obvious fact. You're doing so for the purpose of narrowing down an audience for whoever you're talking to. You wouldn't bother saying "that black guy over there" in a room full of black men, would you? If there were three men standing together and two of them were black you'd add the additional information "that black man in the suit". Likewise, if you were indicating last man you would say "see that white guy there?".

Likewise if most of who you knew were black you prolly would think "What was that guy's name who gave me that book" or some other more identifiable feature to recall who he is.

You second guess yourself because as human beings we keep feeling the need to make groups and seperate ourselves and we have all these clashing man made* cultures because of it. Most of the barriers between you, me, Jim and Joe Bob our ancestors put together and we are maintaining them. Some people also just have problems identifying with ways that people live that just aren't their own.

*man made as in people, not specifically men I just wanted to clarify.

Edited May 27, 2010 by KaiserD

[GabiandVi 34]

But it's not wrong to make an observation that's an obvious fact. You're doing so for the purpose of narrowing down an audience for whoever you're talking to. You wouldn't bother saying "that black guy over there" in a room full of black men, would you? If there were three men standing together and two of them were black you'd add the additional information "that black man in the suit". Likewise, if you were indicating last man you would say "see that white guy there?".

Likewise if most of who you knew were black you prolly would think "What was that guy's name who gave me that book" or some other more identifiable feature to recall who he is.

You second guess yourself because as human beings we keep feeling the need to make groups and seperate ourselves and we have all these clashing man made* cultures because of it. Most of the barriers between you, me, Jim and Joe Bob our ancestors put together and we are maintaining them. Some people also just have problems identifying with ways that people live that just aren't their own.

*man made as in people, not specifically men I just wanted to clarify.

Completely agree with the bolded. This is not "profiling" or prejudging people based on a generalization related to their race, religion, physical appearance, etc. It's no different from saying, "The tall guy left his umbrella."

Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with recognizing differences between cultures. In fact, when people say "We are all the same," as some sort of reminder to not differentiate, they are revealing a sort of hidden prejudice that anything different is not as good.

However, we are all guilty of prejudging groups of people based on some criteria or another. Some of those criteria are actually politically correct in some circles. Others definitely are not. I'm not defending those who prejudge against politically correct groups. But I think before we throw self-righteous stones, we have to be honest with ourselves. That doesn't mean you don't address the racism or ageism, etc. You do. You should. You must!

What bothers me is when I hear or read vitriole about this instance and then in another instance I read or hear some sort of "politically correct" bigotry from the same person.

[KaiserD 12]

Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with recognizing differences between cultures. In fact, when people say "We are all the same," as some sort of reminder to not differentiate, they are revealing a sort of hidden prejudice that anything different is not as good.

Well culture in itself is not a bad thing. I admire diversity and tradition.

The problem is when you have ones that infringe on the others. The extremist of all religions for example that believe we should punish or belittle those that don't follow our regimen. Religion and culture ethics on raising children are the worst! There does seem to be few places in the world that say "look we'll have to agree to disagree on this, you do your thing and I'll do mine ok?"

But I'm getting off point again.

For all the differences we have, we are all the same race. The most awesome thing is we can all make babies together To me this makes pretty much everything else transient and in our power to overcome.

What bothers me is when I hear or read vitriole about this instance and then in another instance I read or hear some sort of "politically correct" bigotry from the same person.

Well people are fickle. There are some who are only good at repeating others thoughts and not having any of their own, then I'm sure for the most of us we think for ourselves but have lapses in judgement. Perhaps we didn't think something from another point of view, this is a really bad explanation, but I have an example.

DH (many years ago): "OMG That's cr!p, he's not a real rapper he's Canadian "

Me: "You're an idiot. We're British and American and we spend all our time drawing Japanese cartoons. So you're not a real artist?"

He doesn't make that mistake any more lol

[Heracles 417]

Of course! It's the natural assumption! But if you're black don't be angry at being treated unfairly by government institutions, blame the hippity hop listening, baggy pants wearing gangbangers!

It's pretty sad that there are people on this board who will read the above paragraph and take it entirely literally.

No genius, it's the fact that the music they listen to encourages gang banging and violence. Next you are going to tell me the sound of Music has the same impact on kids as does a song about killin bros and banging hos. Perhaps you can tell me about the no-snitch rule in the middle class Caucasian or even AA community. Oh that's right, it does not exist.

Whether you accept it or not is irrelevant, there is a culture that encourages violence within the inner-city poor AA community. Something only exasperated by their surrounds and the lifestyle (which includes the music) they immerse themselves in.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No genius, it's the fact that the music they listen to encourages gang banging and violence. Next you are going to tell me the sound of Music has the same impact on kids as does a song about killin bros and banging hos. Perhaps you can tell me about the no-snitch rule in the middle class Caucasian or even AA community. Oh that's right, it does not exist.

Whether you accept it or not is irrelevant, there is a culture that encourages violence within the inner-city poor AA community. Something only exasperated by their surrounds and the lifestyle (which includes the music) they immerse themselves in.

There is no evidence whatsoever that listening to a song, watching a movie or playing a videogame spontaneously inspires anyone to commit acts of violence. That is a total fallacy.

As to the rest - yes there is a "culture". I have never disagreed with that - only with your desire to ignore the wider context with contributes to it. It simply is not a black and white issue.

[GabiandVi 34]

There is no evidence whatsoever that listening to a song, watching a movie or playing a videogame spontaneously inspires anyone to commit acts of violence. That is a total fallacy.

As to the rest - yes there is a "culture". I have never disagreed with that - only with your desire to ignore the wider context with contributes to it. It simply is not a black and white issue.

I agree that it is not the song itself. However, in the musically insignificant city of Baton Rouge, a documentary of the local gangs was made. Much of the violence centered around the followers of the local, rival, rap singers, one of whom has since been murdered.

This documentary, by the way, revealed the complete ignorance and stupidity of the people featured in it. Nevertheless, they have become heroes for their brash behavior on film.

There is a culture of failure promoted purposely and accidentally in songs, movies, etc., and while chances are my daughter, if she is allowed to listen, watch, or play such games as she grows up will not become violent or promiscuous, her tolerance of those sorts of behaviors will be greater than I would like it to be. Studies DO show this. And if you are tolerant of these behaviors, you are more easily drawn into them. I only need to look to my past behaviors to prove that.

However, it would take a LOT more than erasing all those things to change that culture of failure. I don't like to talk much about it because it seems so hopeless. As a high school teacher, I see the result of that culture. Even most of my most promising students have a relatively dim future. Unless you have been in my shoes, you cannot imagine how depressing it can be to witness.

Something has to be done. I'm trying to do my part, but I'm just one drip of water against the Great Wall.

By the way, this is not restricted to race, though sadly the majority of the people I see in this culture are Black.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I agree that it is not the song itself. However, in the musically insignificant city of Baton Rouge, a documentary of the local gangs was made. Much of the violence centered around the followers of the local, rival, rap singers, one of whom has since been murdered.

This documentary, by the way, revealed the complete ignorance and stupidity of the people featured in it. Nevertheless, they have become heroes for their brash behavior on film.

There is a culture of failure promoted purposely and accidentally in songs, movies, etc., and while chances are my daughter, if she is allowed to listen, watch, or play such games as she grows up will not become violent or promiscuous, her tolerance of those sorts of behaviors will be greater than I would like it to be. Studies DO show this. And if you are tolerant of these behaviors, you are more easily drawn into them. I only need to look to my past behaviors to prove that.

However, it would take a LOT more than erasing all those things to change that culture of failure. I don't like to talk much about it because it seems so hopeless. As a high school teacher, I see the result of that culture. Even most of my most promising students have a relatively dim future. Unless you have been in my shoes, you cannot imagine how depressing it can be to witness.

Something has to be done. I'm trying to do my part, but I'm just one drip of water against the Great Wall.

By the way, this is not restricted to race, though sadly the majority of the people I see in this culture are Black.

I agree that the music is part and parcel of a wider phenomenon, but it also has wider appeal that goes quite far beyond that subculture and which isn't interested in committing crimes or violent acts.

[Heracles 417]

There is no evidence whatsoever that listening to a song, watching a movie or playing a videogame spontaneously inspires anyone to commit acts of violence. That is a total fallacy.

As to the rest - yes there is a "culture". I have never disagreed with that - only with your desire to ignore the wider context with contributes to it. It simply is not a black and white issue.

Actually there is substantial evidence of the negative affects of exposure to violence, furthermore, how it desensitizes a person and begets more violence. You also ignore the reality that the callousness of crimes has been getting worse. Why would you think that is? Socioeconomics? Err wrong answer, considering even in America, kids nowadays have resources that others couldn't have imagined 30 years ago, let alone a few hundred. Nevertheless, why would teenagers now sit around and watch a girl being raped, record it on their phone, and say nothing? Sorry, wasn't an issue back when I was in high-school. No one who grows up around violence ends up becoming a Harvard scholar.

As has been pointed out before, you accept the impact something like advertising of cigarettes or alcohol has, thus it being restricted. However, you negate (ignore) the effect constant exposure to music and other mediums that encourage violence has on teenagers. Never said it was the music alone, however the music enables gullible teenagers to feel it's cool to gang bang. Basically that's what the cool folks do.

PS Perhaps you can tell me about the level of violence and the homicide rate of the Amish.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Actually there is substantial evidence of the negative affects of exposure to violence, furthermore, how it desensitizes a person and begets more violence. You also ignore the reality that the callousness of crimes has been getting worse. Why would you think that is? Socioeconomics? Err wrong answer, considering even in America, kids nowadays have resources that others couldn't have imagined 30 years ago, let alone a few hundred. Nevertheless, why would teenagers now sit around and watch a girl being raped, record it on their phone, and say nothing? Sorry, wasn't an issue back when I was in high-school. No one who grows up around violence ends up becoming a Harvard scholar.

No BY, it's #######. We have age ratings on violent movies and videogames because we know that young children can't easily differentiate between reality and fantasy. Beyond that the evidence is extremely scant.

As has been pointed out before, you accept the impact something like advertising of cigarettes or alcohol has, thus it being restricted. However, you negate (ignore) the effect constant exposure to music and other mediums that encourage violence has on teenagers. Never said it was the music alone, however the music enables gullible teenagers to feel it's cool to gang bang. Basically that's what the cool folks do.

PS Perhaps you can tell me about the level of violence and the homicide rate of the Amish.

Alcohol and cigarettes have predictable and scientifically proven health risks.

Music does not.

[Heracles 417]

No BY, it's #######. We have age ratings on violent movies and videogames because we know that young children can't easily differentiate between reality and fantasy. Beyond that the evidence is extremely scant.

Alcohol and cigarettes have predictable and scientifically proven health risks.

Music does not.

Alcohol and cigarettes have also been around for thousands of years. On demand access to visual violence and music which promotes treating women like c--k-rags and killin bros has only been around for the past 20 years.

Still waiting on your answer regarding why the Amish do not have anywhere near as high crime rates to that of others. Let alone find any country around the world with low crime rates, I can guarantee you the ghetto thuggery culture is not part of their society. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Alcohol and cigarettes have also been around for thousands of years. On demand access to visual violence and music which promotes treating women like c--k-rags and killin bros has only been around for the past 20 years.

Still waiting on your answer regarding why the Amish do not have anywhere near as high crime rates to that of others. Let alone find any country around the world with low crime rates, I can guarantee you the ghetto thuggery culture is not part of their society. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together.

Your problem is that you put two and two together and make fishsticks.

Yes, there is indeed a "ghetto" subculture and yes gansta rap music is a part of that and is responsible for feeding it. Outside of that subculture however (in wider society) it has no effect on people's behaviour.

You can't blame music for making people commit crime - even when it is committed by your so-called "ghetto-culture". By doing that you are implying that those people can't mentally control themselves. I thought you were all for the individual being held responsible for his/her own behaviour...

[GabiandVi 34]

I agree that the music is part and parcel of a wider phenomenon, but it also has wider appeal that goes quite far beyond that subculture and which isn't interested in committing crimes or violent acts.

True. And I don't really want to promote censorship. But I do think it would make a difference if we could change the popular music, movies, and videogames in this culture of failure that I'm talking about. It would be hard to make any other changes without a shift in that aspect of the culture.

No question there are greater problems than the music these kids listen to, but it is very difficult to isolate the true problems from the music, etc. In other words, if we could, as I often fantasize, competely remove these kids from the muck in which they are being raised, and drop them on the slopes of the Rockies in Colorado, for example, but we allowed them to keep the music, the movies, and other popular cultural influences from their old life, the going would be much slower than if we were to replace those influences with other ones. But I suppose it's not worth discussing as my fantasy is just that.

[Heracles 417]

Your problem is that you put two and two together and make fishsticks.

Yes, there is indeed a "ghetto" subculture and yes gansta rap music is a part of that and is responsible for feeding it. Outside of that subculture however (in wider society) it has no effect on people's behaviour.

You can't blame music for making people commit crime - even when it is committed by your so-called "ghetto-culture". By doing that you are implying that those people can't mentally control themselves. I thought you were all for the individual being held responsible for his/her own behaviour...

You don't know what you are talking about. Pick up any college grade textbook and analyze culture and sub-culture. Wider society? The country is extremely diverse, and the dominant culture of one area, even within a state, has little influence in another.

You also ignore the difference in communities - in culture- between groups that are exposed to that ####### daily to those that are not (ever). Perhaps, you are going to tell me the Amish are wealthy, therefore, that's why they don't commit anywhere the crime rate of inner-city AA. You also ignore things like no-snitch rules, which once again are a cultural thing. No such thing as a no-snitch rule with my fellow middle class AA neighbors. it's never been about the music alone, however, the music is part of the package (culture) that enables thuggery. As the AA NY congressman put in, people wear pants to their knees then wonder why they don't receive any respect or employment opportunities. You obviously disagree with his view and feel dressing like a complete idiot plays no part in one's image, nor is the by-product of culture. Unfortunately there are not too many people dressed like inner-city thugs in Europe now is there.

What I am still waiting from you to this day, is to illustrate (actually prove) that people of similar or poorer socioeconomics in other countries having similar crime rates to that of those in ghettos in the US.

I listen to trance or chill-out music [di.fm], the music sounds nothing like that of hip-hop or gangsta rap. Trance is uplifting or relaxing, the latter is about acting top sh-t or trying to prove something. Both music, though with two completely different reactions and messages. Same can be said about country vs hip-hop. One's about a good time, the other is about violence.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You don't know what you are talking about. Pick up any college grade textbook and analyze culture and sub-culture. Wider society? The country is extremely diverse, and the dominant culture of one area, even within a state, has little influence in another.

You also ignore the difference in communities - in culture- between groups that are exposed to that ####### daily to those that are not (ever). Perhaps, you are going to tell me the Amish are wealthy, therefore, that's why they don't commit anywhere the crime rate of inner-city AA. You also ignore things like no-snitch rules, which once again are a cultural thing. No such thing as a no-snitch rule with my fellow middle class AA neighbors. it's never been about the music alone, however, the music is part of the package (culture) that enables thuggery. As the AA NY congressman put in, people wear pants to their knees then wonder why they don't receive any respect or employment opportunities. You obviously disagree with his view and feel dressing like a complete idiot plays no part in one's image, nor is the by-product of culture. Unfortunately there are not too many people dressed like inner-city thugs in Europe now is there.

What I am still waiting from you to this day, is to illustrate (actually prove) that people of similar or poorer socioeconomics in other countries having similar crime rates to that of those in ghettos in the US.

I listen to trance or chill-out music [di.fm], the music sounds nothing like that of hip-hop or gangsta rap. Trance is uplifting or relaxing, the latter is about acting top sh-t or trying to prove something. Both music, though with two completely different reactions and messages. Same can be said about country vs hip-hop. One's about a good time, the other is about violence.

BY, if you're going to accuse me of holding opinions that I don't, then we're not going to get anywhere.

BTW You listen to Trance/Chill-out do you? Do you feel a strange and overpowering urge to pop pills and go to raves - cause that is the "culture" that that stuff promotes?

[Heracles 417]

BY, if you're going to accuse me of holding opinions that I don't, then we're not going to get anywhere.

BTW You listen to Trance/Chill-out do you? Do you feel a strange and overpowering urge to pop pills and go to raves - cause that is the "culture" that that stuff promotes?

That might be the stigma with the music but the music itself certainly does not promote it. Whereas, hip-hop and gangsta rap literally promotes thuggery and violence.

There is a big big difference between jazz, soul, big-band etc to that of hip-hop gangsta ####### err rap. Interestingly enough, AA who grew up to that culture are not out shooting up neighborhoods either. No evidence needed of this either, empirical is more than enough.

The music is not the cause, however, it's part of what enables violence and thuggery within the inner-city circle - part of the culture.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Booyah!