Worst economic crisis since the Great Depression? By a long shot.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

And yet, jobs continued to be lost. Gee whiz, doctor! The bleeding stopped, but the patient died!

You want to cite where Obama said the Stimulus money was going to stop job losses outright or stop the Recession itself?

Edited February 21, 2010 by Galt's gallstones

[Ali G. 37]

A year ago this past week, President Obama signed into law the $787-billion economic stimulus passed by the Democratic-run Congress, and the president and other top administration officials are saying the stimulus saved the country from a second Depression. Voters aren’t so sure. Thirty-five percent (35%) agree that the stimulus plan has helped the economy, but nearly as many (33%) believe it has hurt the economy. Twenty-six percent (26%) say it has had no impact at all.

You're right. This is a country based on opinion rather than actual knowledge. After all, if a voter with a high school education from the Midwest thinks this has failed, surely it has failed.

[Ali G. 37]

And yet, jobs continued to be lost. Gee whiz, doctor! The bleeding stopped, but the patient died!

At least they attempted surgery. Or should we just take the Matt stance, that by of doing nothing, the bleeding would have somehow stopped on it's own.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The Recovery Act was enacted in February 2009. The bottom was reached in January 2009 and

job losses started slowing before any money was spent.

The rate of job loss slowed down significantly because of the Recovery Act. But you don't have to just go by this chart, look at the CBO's numbers.

A new Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report estimates that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) had preserved or created between 600,000 and 1.6 million jobs as of September. This estimate by Congress' non-partisan economic and budget analysts is more comprehensive than the 640,000 jobs that ARRA recipients reported in late October, CBO explains.

CBO’s Jobs Estimates More Comprehensive Than Earlier Recipient Reports

On October 30, the Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board released jobs figures based on reports by recipients of ARRA grants, loans, and contracts. Recipients reported that ARRA funds preserved or created 640,000 jobs through September. As the new CBO report explains, however, the recipient reports “do not provide a comprehensive estimate of [ARRA’s] impact on employment in the United States.”

Specifically, the recipient reports covered only about one in four ARRA dollars spent through September and did not include some of ARRA’s most effective job-creating provisions, such as increased Medicaid support for states and additional support for unemployed workers and food stamp recipients. The reports also did not include the jobs that ARRA grants, loans, and contracts generated indirectly by increasing overall economic activity. On the other hand, CBO notes, some of the jobs that recipients reported may have existed without ARRA.

CBO emphasizes that its estimate of 600,000 to 1.6 million jobs preserved or created through September addresses the limitations of using recipient reports to estimate ARRA’s impact on jobs. CBO’s estimate, which is based on data about how similar policies have affected output and employment in the past, is similar to those of other leading economic forecasters. For example:

• Mark Zandi of Moody’s Economy.com estimates that ARRA saved or created 1.1 million jobs as of October. [2]
  
• Goldman-Sachs has concluded that “ARRA provided a substantial boost to growth in Q2 and especially Q3, and will continue to support growth into 2010.”[3]
  

A minority of economists have questioned whether ARRA has in fact boosted the economy. CBO says that it continues to look at new research on the economic relationships between changes in government policy and changes in output and employment, but that its examination of that research has not altered CBO’s assessment of ARRA’s economic impact.

Conclusion

CBO’s analysis finds that ARRA has significantly boosted output and employment and caused the increase in unemployment resulting from the recession to be less than it otherwise would have been. These findings suggest that without ARRA, the economy might still be shrinking.

link

Edited February 21, 2010 by Galt's gallstones

[웃 910]

Front page headline February 21, 2010....http://HuffingtonPost.com

Links to this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/21/business...mployed.html?hp

Edited February 21, 2010 by Lord Infamous

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Front page headline February 21, 2010....http://HuffingtonPost.com

Links to this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/21/business...mployed.html?hp

Yep. All the more reason to support a job stimulus bill. How about it?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

You want to cite where Obama said the Stimulus money was going to stop job losses outright or stop the Recession itself?

Changing the words again?

It went from "saved and created" to "preserved, or created", to "would have been worse without the stimulus"; none of which can be proved, because the statements are meaningless.

[Ali G. 37]

Front page headline February 21, 2010....http://HuffingtonPost.com

Links to this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/21/business...mployed.html?hp

I am usually puzzled regarding where you stand on this. Saying something will not work but never actually suggesting what will is ....

Edit: Based on your signature, I am also puzzled with where you stand on Education.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Booyah

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Changing the words again?

It went from "saved and created" to "preserved, or created", to "would have been worse without the stimulus"; none of which can be proved, because the statements are meaningless.

Bill, one thing I've noticed about you - you seem to get tripped up on terminology. The posts above regarding CBO's analysis makes it clear that according to their nonpartisan analysis, the Recovery Act did what it was intended to do. Obama never said anything to suggest it was going to do more than what it was meant to do. But like you said, if the rhetoric is meaningless, then just look beyond the rhetoric to the actual data from the CBO.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Bill, one thing I've noticed about you - you seem to get tripped up on terminology. The posts above regarding CBO's analysis makes it clear that according to their nonpartisan analysis, the Recovery Act did what it was intended to do. Obama never said anything to suggest it was going to do more than what it was meant to do. But like you said, if the rhetoric is meaningless, then just look beyond the rhetoric to the actual data from the CBO.

I think I will stick with the the Bureau of Labor Statistics, rather than a misquote of the CBO by a George Soros front organization.

ETA: Words have meaning, or didn't you realize that?

Edited February 21, 2010 by Lone Ranger

[Ali G. 37]

Here is the reality, Obama could reduce the unemployment rate to Zero and people will still ###### about something.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I think I will stick with the the Bureau of Labor Statistics, rather than a misquote of the CBO by a George Soros front organization.

What are you on about?

ETA: Words have meaning, or didn't you realize that?

You're assessment that a free market isn't truly free if it has to work within the confines of government regulation and oversight...or even financial intervention. You seem to think in absolutes when you have no real world examples of such.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Galt's gallstones

[Marzy 1]

What happen to stimulus package?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

What are you on about?

You're assessment that a free market isn't truly free if it has to work within the confines of government regulation and oversight...or even financial intervention. You seem to think in absolutes when you have no real world examples of such.

The CBPP is not the same as the CBO.

Prominent members include George Soros,...

CBO forecasts are based on the assumptions presented to them. If you give the CBO unreasonable assumptions, you will get back unreasonable forecasts. Both sides have learned how to play the CBO to get the results they want.

Free market: Business governed by the laws of supply and demand, not restrained by government interference, regulation or subsidy.

http://www.investorwords.com/2086/free_market.html

You can't keep redefined words just to make your position more appealing, in the Progressive-Liberal-Progressive tradition. It's so "Orwellian".

Edited February 21, 2010 by Lone Ranger

[one...two...tree 2,762]

You can't keep redefined words just to make your position more appealing, in the Progressive-Liberal-Progressive tradition. It's so "Orwellian".

Do you have any real world examples of a truly free market? Or a truly free society for that matter?