I'm "African American"

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

For not: getting an education, a job, learn a skill, invent something, start a business etc, being a contributing member of society etc.

Well this only holds true if you're basing your conception of a black person on a stereotype.

Its not really an excuse than an individual can use, the point is more of a general one: that unless you feel that blacks are fundamentally inferior - that the only reasonable explanation is that our society is not equal (and its not equal because of the legacy of the not too distant past)

[Peikko 1,575]

just watch history channels' gangland and one will see a bunch of them.

That really does show that you do not understand how people get to be in these types of situations. People do not make these choices because they have a viable alternative. They make these choices because they don't see another means of escape from a really horrible sitation. That does not mean the means to escape does not exist, but that it is outside their experience. If you can't believe something can happen, it's very hard to make it happen.

[Ban Hammer 14,813]

do you remember a certain supreme court judges ruling being overturned right before they became a supreme court justice?

exactly what i was thinking

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't think they're inferior, they've been living humble and simple lives in Africa since forever, a hand to mouth existence, they just did not (maybe can not?) assimilate into Western society and the standards that this society creates for its own members. That's my opinion, certainly not fact.

Our society DOES offer a level playing field 100%.

Blacks in the US (at least the ones who's ancestors came here in the 18th century) are several generations removed from Africa, so I'm not sure what relevance that really has.

The reality is that blacks in the US form part of a social underclass, and that this is the direct result of the racist policies of the past.

[Ban Hammer 14,813]

That really does show that you do not understand how people get to be in these types of situations. People do not make these choices because they have a viable alternative. They make these choices because they don't see another means of escape from a really horrible sitation. That does not mean the means to escape does not exist, but that it is outside their experience. If you can't believe something can happen, it's very hard to make it happen.

poppycock. this isn't stalag 13 and people aren't chained to their beds at night. they are free to leave, but they don't want to. many would rather just gangbang. how about watching the show a few times before spouting off?

Edited February 8, 2010 by charles!

[FortLaudy 10]

Not inferior but incapable of living a 'western' life - and yet clearly the blacks that have access to a 'western' life take full advantage of it? How do you explain that?

What do you mean the ones that have access to a 'western' life take full advantage of it? Do they? All?

It's like with any other immigrant community, some integrate and assimilate without problem and other don't. We see the same problem with Muslims moving to western countries.

People want to give this bad names like "racism" but to me this is BS. Not all societies on earth are the same, and measure their success by the same standards.

In Africa most people live a hand to mouth existence. Westerners look at them and condemn them as poor and uneducated or even backwards and want to help, naturally. But to me this is just the way they live, always have, probably always will. I see nothing wrong with it, until someone expects me to foot the bill to elevate their standard of living to what is more "acceptable".

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

do you remember a certain supreme court judges ruling being overturned right before they became a supreme court justice?

I'm not aware of it, but I don't see why it would contradict what I said.

Does anyone here feel unfairly treated or otherwise disenfranchised because Affirmative Action plans exist?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

poppycock. this isn't stalag 13 and people aren't chained to their beds at night. they are free to leave, but they don't want to. many would rather just gangbang. how about watching the show a few times before spouting off?

Free to leave - yes, but they don't have the imagination to believe that they can aspire to anything better.

[Ban Hammer 14,813]

Free to leave - yes, but they don't have the imagination to believe that they can aspire to anything better.

we're not talking about imagination, are we? i never imagined 10 years ago i'd be working the job i currently have. imagination has zero to do with the motivation to better one's lot in life.

[FortLaudy 10]

Free to leave - yes, but they don't have the imagination to believe that they can aspire to anything better.

That's BS, there are a lot of very successful black people in America to look up to.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

we're not talking about imagination, are we? i never imagined 10 years ago i'd be working the job i currently have. imagination has zero to do with the motivation to better one's lot in life.

Actually, it has everything to do with it.

Otherwise aren't you just a product of your background?

[FortLaudy 10]

Actually, it has everything to do with it.

Otherwise aren't you just a product of your background?

Gene, did you read my earlier post on Indian South Africans? Motivation and hard work is all it takes some times.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That's BS, there are a lot of very successful black people in America to look up to.

Of course there are.

But if we're talking about gangs, I'd say that those communities have other, more immediate role models to look up to.

[FortLaudy 10]

Of course there are.

But if we're talking about gangs, I'd say that those communities have other, more immediate role models to look up to.

I don't see why anyone "Needs" a good role model to look up to in life, that's not a valid excuse for me either.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Gene, did you read my earlier post on Indian South Africans? Motivation and hard work is all it takes some times.

No, I didn't read it.

I have no problem with motivation and hard work, but people are complex creatures and society more complex still.

As I say, unless you're prepared to say that an entire population is somehow intrinsically substandard, the only reasonable conclusion to draw is that our society has some glaring inequalities.