Father slain in front of daughter after dog sniffs man's leg

[Heracles 417]

Apparently I missed a lot of inaccurate opinions of an Aussie trapped in the U.S. who wishes the U.S. was as good as his home country. I wonder if his spouse is desiring to go to AUS.

Sh-t don't let spook see this, he is going to have a spasm about it too.

Check your statistics again. It didn't go from 1.8 to 1.2. It was only 1.2 last year. The average is still around 1.5 and that 1.8 figure was from a different source. Taken as a whole, averaged together from all sources cited so far - YES, there has been a reduction in homicides in AUS. You are correct. But, what hasn't happened is a significant reduction one would expect from strict gun control laws. I guess you're still waiting for "all" the guns to be taken away from "all" the "bad guys."

Pre Gun buyback and restriction

1995 - 1.8

Following gun buyback and give time to implement

2008 - 1.2

And that has what to do with any of this? Also, those who moved here from other second and first world countries could very easily move there with their American spouse. Why haven't they done that?

You missing the point. The majority of people on this forum alone have spouses from 2nd and 3rd world countries. When you ask who is coming here, it's quite evident who is coming here. Why would someone from any other first world country want to come and live in the Midwest? Hence why the don't.

They didn't have those.... but they had cannons. The most powerful, technologically advanced weaponry available at the time and it was in the hands of civilians.

So people carried cannons around did they?

[Heracles 417]

This isn't a race issue. It's gun control in Australia that proves that it has only had a miniscule effect on the homicide rate. Fact. Circle talk, change the subject, etc etc, it's a fact.

United Nations seems to think otherwise. Hence the HDI ranking.

Furthermore, didn't realize a 33% reduction on overall homicide rates is "minuscule".

I guess a 5.7% unemployment rate vs 10.2% is "minuscule" in your eyes too hey.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Apparently I missed a lot of inaccurate opinions of an Aussie trapped in the U.S. who wishes the U.S. was as good as his home country. I wonder if his spouse is desiring to go to AUS.

Sh-t don't let spook see this, he is going to have a spasm about it too.

Check your statistics again. It didn't go from 1.8 to 1.2. It was only 1.2 last year. The average is still around 1.5 and that 1.8 figure was from a different source. Taken as a whole, averaged together from all sources cited so far - YES, there has been a reduction in homicides in AUS. You are correct. But, what hasn't happened is a significant reduction one would expect from strict gun control laws. I guess you're still waiting for "all" the guns to be taken away from "all" the "bad guys."

Pre Gun buyback and restriction

1995 - 1.8

Following gun buyback and give time to implement

2008 - 1.2

And that has what to do with any of this? Also, those who moved here from other second and first world countries could very easily move there with their American spouse. Why haven't they done that?

You missing the point. The majority of people on this forum alone have spouses from 2nd and 3rd world countries. When you ask who is coming here, it's quite evident who is coming here. Why would someone from any other first world country want to come and live in the Midwest? Hence why the don't.

They didn't have those.... but they had cannons. The most powerful, technologically advanced weaponry available at the time and it was in the hands of civilians.

So people carried cannons around did they?

Why are you here again? Because your wife won't relocate? I understand your pain, but not the hatred. You married for love. Your love prevents you from going home. This is well understood. Why not make the best of it?

[slim 1,533]

US Homicide rate: (Per 100,000)[/b]

Whites: 4.8

Blacks: 36.9

Since you obviously can't "win" with the "gun control in AUS has worked" point you keep trying to present and are now taking it to the race issue here in America, I'll run with your own theory -

If guns are banned here in the U.S., will that figure up there change? Are you implying that if we took all the guns away blacks would stop killing each other at a disproportionate rate? (I bet you'd try to say it would go down .6/100,000! and that would almost be a logical argument. Not true, but logical. So, what you'll really say is "no, they'd still kill each other with kniv......... OH Bullocks! That's what slim's been saying the whole........... YES! Blacks will stop killing each other at a disproportionate rate.)

[spookyturtle 9,466]

This isn't a race issue. It's gun control in Australia that proves that it has only had a miniscule effect on the homicide rate. Fact. Circle talk, change the subject, etc etc, it's a fact.

United Nations seems to think otherwise. Hence the HDI ranking.

Furthermore, didn't realize a 33% reduction on overall homicide rates is "minuscule".

You lost this argument. Gun restriction did little to curb the homicide rate in Australia. Your numerous attempts at changing the subject do not alter that fact. Race has nothing to do with the homicide rate in Australia.

[Heracles 417]

Why are you here again? Because your wife won't relocate? I understand your pain, but not the hatred. You married for love. Your love prevents you from going home. This is well understood. Why not make the best of it?

Don't know where you got this from. If you ask your source, you would realize I am building a house to be able to move into. After all, there is a housing shortage in Australia due to the demand. Hence the $481K median price range.

This isn't a race issue. It's gun control in Australia that proves that it has only had a miniscule effect on the homicide rate. Fact. Circle talk, change the subject, etc etc, it's a fact.

United Nations seems to think otherwise. Hence the HDI ranking.

Furthermore, didn't realize a 33% reduction on overall homicide rates is "minuscule".

You lost this argument. Gun restriction did little to curb the homicide rate in Australia. Your numerous attempts at changing the subject do not alter that fact. Race has nothing to do with the homicide rate in Australia.

Okay, 33% is "little".

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Why are you here again? Because your wife won't relocate? I understand your pain, but not the hatred. You married for love. Your love prevents you from going home. This is well understood. Why not make the best of it?

Don't know where you got this from. If you ask your source, you would realize I am building a house to be able to move into. After all, there is a housing shortage in Australia due to the demand. Hence the $481K median price range.

This isn't a race issue. It's gun control in Australia that proves that it has only had a miniscule effect on the homicide rate. Fact. Circle talk, change the subject, etc etc, it's a fact.

United Nations seems to think otherwise. Hence the HDI ranking.

Furthermore, didn't realize a 33% reduction on overall homicide rates is "minuscule".

You lost this argument. Gun restriction did little to curb the homicide rate in Australia. Your numerous attempts at changing the subject do not alter that fact. Race has nothing to do with the homicide rate in Australia.

Okay, 33% is "little".

Lame and you know it. You're cornered and have no defense so you resort to changing the subject. Your gun restriction has prevent about 50-70 murders a year. If you feel that this is a stunning success after eliminating over 650K firearms, I have some nice ocean front property in Kansas that I am willing to sell cheap.

[Heracles 417]

US Homicide rate: (Per 100,000)[/b]

Whites: 4.8

Blacks: 36.9

Since you obviously can't "win" with the "gun control in AUS has worked" point you keep trying to present and are now taking it to the race issue here in America, I'll run with your own theory -

If guns are banned here in the U.S., will that figure up there change? Are you implying that if we took all the guns away blacks would stop killing each other at a disproportionate rate? (I bet you'd try to say it would go down .6/100,000! and that would almost be a logical argument. Not true, but logical. So, what you'll really say is "no, they'd still kill each other with kniv......... OH Bullocks! That's what slim's been saying the whole........... YES! Blacks will stop killing each other at a disproportionate rate.)

Hang on a minutes, it's you guys who are saying guns have nothing to do with it. Therefore, I ran along with this logic and you don't seem to agree with a specific perpetrator being the cause either. Nonetheless, even if African Americans committed zero homicides, the rate of white Americans is still 4.8. Well above that of any other first world country.

Well it's pretty hard to do a drive by in government housing, as per a few weeks ago in DC, using knifes.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

US Homicide rate: (Per 100,000)[/b]

Whites: 4.8

Blacks: 36.9

Since you obviously can't "win" with the "gun control in AUS has worked" point you keep trying to present and are now taking it to the race issue here in America, I'll run with your own theory -

If guns are banned here in the U.S., will that figure up there change? Are you implying that if we took all the guns away blacks would stop killing each other at a disproportionate rate? (I bet you'd try to say it would go down .6/100,000! and that would almost be a logical argument. Not true, but logical. So, what you'll really say is "no, they'd still kill each other with kniv......... OH Bullocks! That's what slim's been saying the whole........... YES! Blacks will stop killing each other at a disproportionate rate.)

Hang on a minutes, it's you guys who are saying guns have nothing to do with it. Therefore, I ran along with this logic and you don't seem to agree with a specific perpetrator being the cause either. Nonetheless, even if African Americans committed zero homicides, the rate of white Americans is still 4.8. Well above that of any other first world country.

Well it's pretty hard to do a drive by in government housing, as per a few weeks ago in DC, using knifes.

Another poor attempt to bait and switch. Stick to Australia since it's the model for the rest of the world to follow.

[SuperDuper! 230]

I admit I am impressed with Booyah's and Spook's passion and determination for such a raucous topic such as gun control. I think to relax they do side bar debates of abortion and religion.

The trouble is, NO ONE has ever swayed anyone in such arguments and debates, in the history of mankind.

How fun it would be to see one of you guys say, "Wow, your insight just gave me an epiphany. You have convinced me that you are right and I am wrong. Thanks for straightening me out on the matter!"

[slim 1,533]

Okay, 33% is "little".

No, it's inaccurate.

33% was last year... NOT THE AVERAGE!

If you want to do one year, check the stats from '99. Not so good.

[Heracles 417]

Lame and you know it. You're cornered and have no defense so you resort to changing the subject. Your gun restriction has prevent about 50-70 murders a year. If you feel that this is a stunning success after eliminating over 650K firearms, I have some nice ocean front property in Kansas that I am willing to sell cheap.

POPULATION

US : 303 million

Aus : 21 million

~ US has 14.4 times the population

MURDERED BY MEANS OF FIREARMS

USA: 9,369

AUS: 59

~ US has 158 times the homicide rate by means of firearms.

------

"but but What about homicide by any other means; like rubber duckies"

OVERALL HOMICIDE RATES

US: 16,204

AUS: 302

~ US has 53 times the overall homicide rate of Australia

-----------

SUMMARY

-----------

Homicide By Means of Firearms

Based on population difference, the US homicide rate would have to be reduced to 873 to be the equivalent.

~ would have to be reduced by 91% to be on par with Australia.

Overall Homicide Rates

Based on population difference, the US homicide rate would have to be reduced to 4,348 to be the equivalent (on par).

~ would have to be reduced by 73% to be on par with Australia.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I did your math for you. Homicides in Australia decreased by 50-70 per year after eliminating over 650K guns. Fact. The murder rate in the US has nothing to do with this. When you lose, you resort to name calling. I'm sticking to the facts. You refuse to because they make you look foolish.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I admit I am impressed with Booyah's and Spook's passion and determination for such a raucous topic such as gun control. I think to relax they do side bar debates of abortion and religion.

The trouble is, NO ONE has ever swayed anyone in such arguments and debates, in the history of mankind.

How fun it would be to see one of you guys say, "Wow, your insight just gave me an epiphany. You have convinced me that you are right and I am wrong. Thanks for straightening me out on the matter!"

I'm not trying to sway anyone. I merely point out ones flawed logic and supported my stance with a multitude of supporting evidence.

[slim 1,533]

~ US has 158 times the homicide rate by means of firearms.

Not arguing that, it makes perfect sense. More guns = more death by guns. Simple fact.

~ US has 53 times the overall homicide rate of Australia

Not per-capita. See, you forgot to do the math again. U.S. has about a 5.3/100,000 average homicide rate. AUS has about a 1.4/100,000 average homicide rate. By my calculations that's only about a 3.78 times larger homicide rate. If the population is 14 times as large, why is the homicide rate only 3.78 times as large, especially with all the guns?

You keep posting the same tired numbers over and over. You are correct, there's been a slight decline in overall homicides in AUS - but that's been ongoing since the sixties. Same thing's also happened in the U.S. But you like to add that it's because of stricter gun control laws, and that's just not accurate.