Childrens' birth certs falsely stating a date/place of marriage

[AmyStan 0]

Hi everyone. My fiancee was with someone for several years, but never married. They had two children. She has had no contact with him for 9 years now. When checking the childrens' birth certificates to get passports, she noticed that there was a date and place of marriage listed on them. It turns out that her ex put that on the forms when applying for the BCs. He actually put different places of marriage on each one (I guess he couldn't remember what he lied about the first time).

She has subsequently obtained a "certificate of singleness" proving she has never been married. Since the statement of marriage on the BC isn't proof of marriage, and the certificate of singless proves she has never been married, I'm thinking she should be okay for her K1. Do you agree?

As for the kids when we get the follow-to-join visas, do you think we will have any trouble with those?

She went to a lawyer to see about correcting the BCs and was told it would cost 30-50,000 PHP, not including court costs. We will do that if necessary, of course, but it seems pretty high to prove something that the certificate of singleness should prove.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

[rheanick 42]

Hi everyone. My fiancee was with someone for several years, but never married. They had two children. She has had no contact with him for 9 years now. When checking the childrens' birth certificates to get passports, she noticed that there was a date and place of marriage listed on them. It turns out that her ex put that on the forms when applying for the BCs. He actually put different places of marriage on each one (I guess he couldn't remember what he lied about the first time).

She has subsequently obtained a "certificate of singleness" proving she has never been married. Since the statement of marriage on the BC isn't proof of marriage, and the certificate of singless proves she has never been married, I'm thinking she should be okay for her K1. Do you agree?

As for the kids when we get the follow-to-join visas, do you think we will have any trouble with those?

She went to a lawyer to see about correcting the BCs and was told it would cost 30-50,000 PHP, not including court costs. We will do that if necessary, of course, but it seems pretty high to prove something that the certificate of singleness should prove.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

It would be better if you fix the BC ASAP. And get another lawyer. That's too expensive.

Here are the two arguments you might receive, though hypothetical:

The CENOMAR could be fake. There are people who could get a CENOMAR with NSO paper even though been married to someone else.

Different places for place of marriage, one could be real and another one could be an honest mistake from the father.

[thepizzadude 26]

Hi everyone. My fiancee was with someone for several years, but never married. They had two children. She has had no contact with him for 9 years now. When checking the childrens' birth certificates to get passports, she noticed that there was a date and place of marriage listed on them. It turns out that her ex put that on the forms when applying for the BCs. He actually put different places of marriage on each one (I guess he couldn't remember what he lied about the first time).

She has subsequently obtained a "certificate of singleness" proving she has never been married. Since the statement of marriage on the BC isn't proof of marriage, and the certificate of singless proves she has never been married, I'm thinking she should be okay for her K1. Do you agree?

As for the kids when we get the follow-to-join visas, do you think we will have any trouble with those?

She went to a lawyer to see about correcting the BCs and was told it would cost 30-50,000 PHP, not including court costs. We will do that if necessary, of course, but it seems pretty high to prove something that the certificate of singleness should prove.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

It would be better if you fix the BC ASAP. And get another lawyer. That's too expensive.

Here are the two arguments you might receive, though hypothetical:

The CENOMAR could be fake. There are people who could get a CENOMAR with NSO paper even though been married to someone else.

Different places for place of marriage, one could be real and another one could be an honest mistake from the father.

I second this vote! :blink:

[AmyStan 0]

I don't have any doubts that she was never married. Telling me she lived with someone out of wedlock isn't better than saying she was married. But my point is that the BC is just that, a certificate of birth and not a certificate of marriage. The CENOMAR is the legal document stating whether a marriage took place. One could have a child and name Brad Pitt as the father (along with a date/place of marriage), but would have a hard time using that as proof of marriage to old Brad.

I do see how it can cause confusion during the process and that's the reason for my question.

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

I don't have any doubts that she was never married. Telling me she lived with someone out of wedlock isn't better than saying she was married. But my point is that the BC is just that, a certificate of birth and not a certificate of marriage. The CENOMAR is the legal document stating whether a marriage took place. One could have a child and name Brad Pitt as the father (along with a date/place of marriage), but would have a hard time using that as proof of marriage to old Brad.

I do see how it can cause confusion during the process and that's the reason for my question.

We are trying to be delicate, but you have to consider the possibilities, because the USEM certainly will. Your fiancee does fit a certain profile, and may face a fraud inquiry, even if everything she told you is true. It will take a court to change the birth certificates, and the USEM will presume a common law marriage for your fiancee.

[shawns40 0]

My fiance also had the same issue as yours. I'm not sure if it will affect you getting the K2.

But my asawa could not get the passport for her daughter becasue of the BC. We had to pay someone about 400 USD to get this fixed for us, I think it took about 6 weeks for the court and another month for the NSO to print it. Like I said it was the passport that was the issue here, also Im sure the children will need permission from the biological father to travel. I would start trying to get it fixed ASAP. My asawa is here now in the states, and her kids have thier interview here in a afew weeks. Her parents are bringing them the US, so we also had to do a DSWD for them. Just a few things for you to think about. Good luck on your visa process.

[AmyStan 0]

I appreciate all the responses, and didn't mean to come off defensive. All good things to think about. The money really wasn't as concerning as the timeframe. She was quoted 4 to 6 months to get it fixed. We can do that in time for the children, but I am hoping her interview will be before that. We'll start getting it corrected this week.

Again, I really appreciate all responses. Y'all are great!

[jom 4]

If you are planning to petition her kids too have the BC corrected before the court. The price is too expensive because usually petitions to correct the BC comes in package including court costs...maximum would probably be about 20 to 30 thousand but again it also depends where your fiancee is.Lawyers in big cities charge more than in the provinces.

The correction should take 4 to 6 months and her best piece of evidence not being married to be presented in court is her CENOMAR.

Goodluck.

[chinese_mutt 11]

I appreciate all the responses, and didn't mean to come off defensive. All good things to think about. The money really wasn't as concerning as the timeframe. She was quoted 4 to 6 months to get it fixed. We can do that in time for the children, but I am hoping her interview will be before that. We'll start getting it corrected this week.

Again, I really appreciate all responses. Y'all are great!

Depends on Court Schedule. If you are raffled in a court that has too many backlog case, yours will go at the bottom of the pile. Find a good lawyer that might have a good connection inside the Regional Trial Court or Municipal Trial Court.. maybe they can fix the "raffle" and it may go to a friendlier judge.

Either way, she must find the father because the DSWD will not issue certificate for them to travel. In some cases, they even require both parents to attend the request to travel for minors.

And not to rain on your parade, it is VERY prevalent here to buy Certificate of Non-Marriage for a not so expensive fee. And they look exactly like the real ones too. So, it would be best to clear this issue up in court, just to be sure.

[tallcoolone 102]

If you are planning to petition her kids too have the BC corrected before the court. The price is too expensive because usually petitions to correct the BC comes in package including court costs...maximum would probably be about 20 to 30 thousand but again it also depends where your fiancee is.Lawyers in big cities charge more than in the provinces.

The correction should take 4 to 6 months and her best piece of evidence not being married to be presented in court is her CENOMAR.

Goodluck.

Listen to Jom.

She does know what she is talking about.

We had a similiar issue with my Fiance BC, we had to pay like $300 to NSO to fix the problem.

[ManilaIdaho 2]

I don't have any doubts that she was never married. Telling me she lived with someone out of wedlock isn't better than saying she was married. But my point is that the BC is just that, a certificate of birth and not a certificate of marriage. The CENOMAR is the legal document stating whether a marriage took place. One could have a child and name Brad Pitt as the father (along with a date/place of marriage), but would have a hard time using that as proof of marriage to old Brad.

I do see how it can cause confusion during the process and that's the reason for my question.

It might raise a question from the CO why the kids have different dates of marriage on their Birth Certificates but if she has CENOMAR from NSO and other proofs that she and her ex didnt get married,she might get away with it but these are all depends upon the CO....and this is just my guess.It would be better if their birth certs will get fixed.I had the one error on my BC and add Ma. on my first name last year without bribing somebody from NSO nor from the city hall thru RA9048.Tell your fiancee to go to the local civil registry where she registered the BC of her kids so she can get it fixed ASAP,it took mine 4mos and i only paid less than php5,000 for everything.

good luck.

Edited April 26, 2009 by ManilaIdaho

[AmyStan 0]

More good advice and, again, very much appreciated. She will go tomorrow to DSWD to find out more, as well as to determine what an appropriate fee is. She went to the civil registry and they were the ones to tell her it would cost 50,000 or more. She then checked with a friend with a local court who referred her to someone who gave her a 30,000 PHP quote. We'll pay what is required, and get it fixed as soon as possible. If it isn't fixed before her interview, we'll cross our fingers, but at least will have started the process. And we definitely don't want any problems bringing her children here. Contacting her ex isn't something she wants to do (he was very abusive), but she will if that's necessary. Thanks again.

[jom 4]

More good advice and, again, very much appreciated. She will go tomorrow to DSWD to find out more, as well as to determine what an appropriate fee is. She went to the civil registry and they were the ones to tell her it would cost 50,000 or more. She then checked with a friend with a local court who referred her to someone who gave her a 30,000 PHP quote. We'll pay what is required, and get it fixed as soon as possible. If it isn't fixed before her interview, we'll cross our fingers, but at least will have started the process. And we definitely don't want any problems bringing her children here. Contacting her ex isn't something she wants to do (he was very abusive), but she will if that's necessary. Thanks again.

After the BCs are fixed and it can be proved that she has never married the father of her kids, then she has sole custody of them and need not contact the father for purposes of bringing the children here.

[angel7407 33]

More good advice and, again, very much appreciated. She will go tomorrow to DSWD to find out more, as well as to determine what an appropriate fee is. She went to the civil registry and they were the ones to tell her it would cost 50,000 or more. She then checked with a friend with a local court who referred her to someone who gave her a 30,000 PHP quote. We'll pay what is required, and get it fixed as soon as possible. If it isn't fixed before her interview, we'll cross our fingers, but at least will have started the process. And we definitely don't want any problems bringing her children here. Contacting her ex isn't something she wants to do (he was very abusive), but she will if that's necessary. Thanks again.

I have the same issue with my two sons because their father was the one who registered their births. Then he put a date of marriage and place of marriage in both BC's. When I went to USEM for interview of my K-3, the first question of the CO was about the father of the children. Now, she did not make any comment on the date of marriage and place of marriage, even if it appeared there. She asked me why are the children not coming with me to US, and I told her that I still have to change their family names back to mine. She said the USEM has no business with it if it is my concern. They dont mind the family names of the children. Maybe because they really saw from my CENOMAR (they will verify from NSO on their own too, right?) that I was never married before. I gave them my CENOMAR before I got married and I gave them the new CENOMAR which appears that I am only married to my husband now. So far, so good, there were no negative questions.

[AmyStan 0]

Just an update on what we were advised to do by an attorney, in case anyone else runs into this. My fiancee has gone to the city halls of the so-called marriages to obtain a copy of the marriage certificates. Of course that comes back empty since there are no marriage certificates (the marriage never took place). She will then go with the attorney to court and petition to have the BCs changed with removal of the dates/places of marriage. She'll use these results from the city halls, as well as the CENOMAR, as proof. The process can take from 4-6 months, but at least we're getting it started and we're asking to have it expedited.

It might not be necessary based on some of the suggestions here. But we'll have it just in case. If she gets her interview before the change is made to the BCs, she'll use the same evidence as proof that she was never married (if they even ask, and they might not). We should definitely have it fixed by the time we get the follow-to-join visas for the kids.

Thanks again for all the great advice!