Does the USCIS know their own guidelines?

[Goran 2]

I must admit, it is sometimes VERY frustrating dealing with the federal Government. It clearly states in their guidelines for the N-400 application NOT to submit originals or court certified dispositions of traffic tickets less than $500 or if the ticket did not involve a DUI.

I have had 2 tickets. One in 2000 (speeding 11mph over, about $120), and one in 2005 (speeding 16mph over, about $185). I CLEARLY stated the fact that I had these two tickets in the application (Part 10), and checked "Yes" to the question whether I had been Arrested, cited, or detained.

Today, I get the "yellow letter" in the mail requesting that I bring an original or court certified copy of the courts' dispositions because I had indicated on my application that I had been arrested (in the "yellow letter" they conveniently avoid writing out the remaining of the sentence that I answered "Yes" to in the N-400 application). Unbelievable!

The tricky part for me is that I was able to get a court certified copy of the disposition for the 2005 speeding ticket, but the court for the speeding ticket in 2000 has no record what-so-ever of me ever getting a ticket.

What I am suspecting will happen is that after I explain this obvious fact (if they had actually looked at my application and read their own guidelines), they will keep my application in "pending" mode after my interview on May 21 until they have tried to contact the court that dealt with my ticket in 2000 to verify that, indeed, there is no record of me ever getting a ticket.

This unnecessary bureaucratic manure frustrates me to no end! And, let this be a lesson to all honest people who actually believes in disclosing everything on the application.

What would you do?

[John24689 0]

Call the 800#.

Get an INFOPASS.

Possible contact your Congressman.

Good luck.

[Stella08 0]

I must admit, it is sometimes VERY frustrating dealing with the federal Government. It clearly states in their guidelines for the N-400 application NOT to submit originals or court certified dispositions of traffic tickets less than $500 or if the ticket did not involve a DUI.

I have had 2 tickets. One in 2000 (speeding 11mph over, about $120), and one in 2005 (speeding 16mph over, about $185). I CLEARLY stated the fact that I had these two tickets in the application (Part 10), and checked "Yes" to the question whether I had been Arrested, cited, or detained.

Today, I get the "yellow letter" in the mail requesting that I bring an original or court certified copy of the courts' dispositions because I had indicated on my application that I had been arrested (in the "yellow letter" they conveniently avoid writing out the remaining of the sentence that I answered "Yes" to in the N-400 application). Unbelievable!

The tricky part for me is that I was able to get a court certified copy of the disposition for the 2005 speeding ticket, but the court for the speeding ticket in 2000 has no record what-so-ever of me ever getting a ticket.

What I am suspecting will happen is that after I explain this obvious fact (if they had actually looked at my application and read their own guidelines), they will keep my application in "pending" mode after my interview on May 21 until they have tried to contact the court that dealt with my ticket in 2000 to verify that, indeed, there is no record of me ever getting a ticket.

This unnecessary bureaucratic manure frustrates me to no end! And, let this be a lesson to all honest people who actually believes in disclosing everything on the application.

What would you do?

I'm sorry to hear that. I take it you wrote a statement and sent it along with your application where you stated what the tickets were for and what the fine was? I had put everything down (even just warnings) and explained on separate sheet of paper. The IO didn't want to see any paperwork and just put "traffic" on my application. But that's the thing - you never know what your individual IO wants to see and what he decides. That is frustrating because you never know what's going to be the outcome of your case (same thing when you enter the States and have to go through immigration). I guess, in your case I would try to get your driving record and just show them that. How far back does that go? Maybe you could sign an affadavit? Maybe the IO even doesn't want to see the papers. On my interview letter it stated I had to bring all the originals of copies I had sent in and in the end he even didn't ask for them. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[Goran 2]

I'm sorry to hear that. I take it you wrote a statement and sent it along with your application where you stated what the tickets were for and what the fine was? I had put everything down (even just warnings) and explained on separate sheet of paper. The IO didn't want to see any paperwork and just put "traffic" on my application. But that's the thing - you never know what your individual IO wants to see and what he decides. That is frustrating because you never know what's going to be the outcome of your case (same thing when you enter the States and have to go through immigration). I guess, in your case I would try to get your driving record and just show them that. How far back does that go? Maybe you could sign an affadavit? Maybe the IO even doesn't want to see the papers. On my interview letter it stated I had to bring all the originals of copies I had sent in and in the end he even didn't ask for them. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks, Stella! I think you're right. It doesn't matter how much standardization the feds try to push into the naturalization process, it still comes down to the "mood" of the immigration officer and how much of a pain he/she wants to be.

I think your advise is good. I actually did get my driving record already (11 year), since before the 1/22/2009 guideline to the N-400 application was released, traffic tickets weren't very well discussed. On my 11-year driving record, only the ticket in 2005 shows up. The ticket in 2000 is no longer on it. I do remember several years ago (around 2003) when I pulled my driving record, the ticket I got in 2000 was on there, but I think traffic tickets are only on there for 5 years and is then purged from the record.

Oh, and for clarification, I did not attach a separate explanation for the tickets with my application. I simply stated in the "matrix" below the "Yes" / "No" questions for arrested, detained, cited, etc, etc, the two tickets and that they were "Prepaid". I did not include the actual amount. I have that information for the 2005 ticket, but not for the 2000 ticket. It was around $120, but there is no way I can prove that because the court has no record of it. All I can tell the officer is that I got the ticket in 2000, I have no record of it, the court has no record of it, and really, if the USCIS wants to pursue it further, the burden of proof lies with them. I've done everything possible to disclose truthfully any interactions I've has "with the law." If the court in Dare County, North Caroline chooses not to maintain traffic court records, there's really nothing I can do about it, and if the USCIS believes that's somehow grounds for denying my application, then so be it.

Anyway, thanks for your reply Stella! It's always nice to read positive replies.

[Stella08 0]

I think you'll be fine once you explain to the officer all the circumstances. You can prove that you tried to get all the documents and it's obvious that you're not trying to hide anything. And since the ticket is not on your driving record anymore, hopefully it proves that it was a minor infraction. As I said, I think you'll be fine and the officer will just put down "traffic" on your application without asking for any more evidence. I think you probably got the standard document checklist since you had checked "yes" and didn't explain that the tickets were minor. So they have to advise you to bring in any documents you have, since they don't know what the citation was about.