This Looks Like the Start of a Second Great Depression

[mawilson 2,133]

Yes he did. I hope the Republicans in Congress can set aside their ideological differences and listen to economists like Krugman.

Just the Republicans? Shouldn't the Democrats do the same?

[mRx 16]

These neo-New deal ideas that Paul Krugman is proposing have never worked. What these Keynesians will never understand is that wealth cannot be created by a bureaucrat signing a bill. It can be shifted to other areas, but not created out of nothing.

Forcing the wage rate above actual real market levels, and creating temporary "dig a hole, then fill it" jobs is exactly what perpetuated 20+ percent unemployment in the 30's. What's Krugman have to say about this? That the government didn't spend enough money. Wow.

I suppose intellect is not a requirement for the 'ol Nobel.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Yes he did. I hope the Republicans in Congress can set aside their ideological differences and listen to economists like Krugman.

Just the Republicans? Shouldn't the Democrats do the same?

Absolutely. The Democrats aren't the ones though who set up a website asking for economists who are stimulus proposal skeptics to step forward.

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=10543

[mawilson 2,133]

Yes he did. I hope the Republicans in Congress can set aside their ideological differences and listen to economists like Krugman.

Just the Republicans? Shouldn't the Democrats do the same?

Absolutely. The Democrats aren't the ones though who set up a website asking for economists who are stimulus proposal skeptics to step forward.

I am a stimulus skeptic.

Government breeds bureaucracy, that's the only thing they are good at. For each "real" job they

create, they will appoint a bureaucrat to oversee it, then another one to oversee the second one,

and before you know it, you've got a whole oversight committee full of government bureaucrats.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Yes he did. I hope the Republicans in Congress can set aside their ideological differences and listen to economists like Krugman.

Just the Republicans? Shouldn't the Democrats do the same?

Absolutely. The Democrats aren't the ones though who set up a website asking for economists who are stimulus proposal skeptics to step forward.

I am a stimulus skeptic.

Government breeds bureaucracy, that's the only thing they are good at. For each "real" job they

create, they will appoint a bureaucrat to oversee it, then another one to oversee the second one,

and before you know it, you've got a whole oversight committee full of government bureaucrats.

Problematic bureaucracy isn't exclusive to government, nor is it any more an inherent aspect of government than it is in private enterprise.

[mawilson 2,133]

Yes he did. I hope the Republicans in Congress can set aside their ideological differences and listen to economists like Krugman.

Just the Republicans? Shouldn't the Democrats do the same?

Absolutely. The Democrats aren't the ones though who set up a website asking for economists who are stimulus proposal skeptics to step forward.

I am a stimulus skeptic.

Government breeds bureaucracy, that's the only thing they are good at. For each "real" job they

create, they will appoint a bureaucrat to oversee it, then another one to oversee the second one,

and before you know it, you've got a whole oversight committee full of government bureaucrats.

Problematic bureaucracy isn't exclusive to government, nor is it any more an inherent aspect of government than it is in private enterprise.

Yes it is.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

AT&T was renown for its bureaucracies.

So was Lucent. And IBM GS when I was there.

[mawilson 2,133]

AT&T was renown for its bureaucracies.

So was Lucent. And IBM GS when I was there.

Are they still?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

AT&T was renown for its bureaucracies.

So was Lucent. And IBM GS when I was there.

Are they still?

You did notice my use of the word 'was', I hope.

That's a big difference between public and private. The private sector self-corrects, although the corrections are usually quite painful.

[mawilson 2,133]

AT&T was renown for its bureaucracies.

So was Lucent. And IBM GS when I was there.

Are they still?

You did notice my use of the word 'was', I hope.

That's a big difference between public and private. The private sector self-corrects, although the corrections are usually quite painful.

Exactly. When the government f#cks up, they just create more bureaucracy to fix their f#ckups.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Yes he did. I hope the Republicans in Congress can set aside their ideological differences and listen to economists like Krugman.

Just the Republicans? Shouldn't the Democrats do the same?

Absolutely. The Democrats aren't the ones though who set up a website asking for economists who are stimulus proposal skeptics to step forward.

I am a stimulus skeptic.

Government breeds bureaucracy, that's the only thing they are good at. For each "real" job they

create, they will appoint a bureaucrat to oversee it, then another one to oversee the second one,

and before you know it, you've got a whole oversight committee full of government bureaucrats.

Problematic bureaucracy isn't exclusive to government, nor is it any more an inherent aspect of government than it is in private enterprise.

Yes it is.

Mark, this is a silly ideological argument. It's the premise that without incentive of profit, an entity such as government is incapable of efficiency. Non-profits as well as many examples of governmental efficiency prove otherwise. The key is accountability - whether it is to shareholders or the voting public, accountability is the best way to minimize bureaucracy.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Mister Fancypants

[mawilson 2,133]

Yes he did. I hope the Republicans in Congress can set aside their ideological differences and listen to economists like Krugman.

Just the Republicans? Shouldn't the Democrats do the same?

Absolutely. The Democrats aren't the ones though who set up a website asking for economists who are stimulus proposal skeptics to step forward.

I am a stimulus skeptic.

Government breeds bureaucracy, that's the only thing they are good at. For each "real" job they

create, they will appoint a bureaucrat to oversee it, then another one to oversee the second one,

and before you know it, you've got a whole oversight committee full of government bureaucrats.

Problematic bureaucracy isn't exclusive to government, nor is it any more an inherent aspect of government than it is in private enterprise.

Yes it is.

Mark, this is a silly ideological argument. It's the premise that without incentive of profit, an entity such as government is incapable of efficiency. Non-profits as well as many examples of governmental efficiency prove otherwise. The key is accountability - whether it is to shareholders or the voting public, accountability is the best way to minimize bureaucracy.

Can you name a couple of examples of "governmental efficiency"?

You don't need "accountability" to run a business well. Most companies are private and don't

have any "shareholders" to answer to, yet they are doing fine.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I don't know how efficient they are since I haven't seen their books (and don't want to ) but my personal experiences with the DMV and IRS have all been flawless.

Edited January 7, 2009 by A.J.

[mawilson 2,133]

I don't know how efficient they are since I haven't seen their books (and don't want to ) but my personal experiences with the DMV and IRS have all been flawless.

The IRS does have a "profit incentive" - without the money they collect, they would be no government

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Can you name a couple of examples of "governmental efficiency"?

You don't need "accountability" to run a business well. Most companies are private and don't

have any "shareholders" to answer to, yet they are doing fine.

Here's just one example:

NYC's Growth Backed by 11 Years of Transit Improvements

New York City's growth has been borne on the back of a steadily improving transit system. That's the implication of a recently released NYCDOT report, Sustainable Streets Index 2008, that found that although NYC continued to grow between 2003 and 2007, traffic actually declined. Subway and bus ridership increased almost 9% in the same period. (The report is the result of the passage of Intro 199 — now Local Law 23 — which requires NYCDOT to measure progress towards sustainability goals; see MTR # 550.)

http://blog.tstc.org/2008/12/16/nycs-growt...t-improvements/

.....

Private companies are accountable to themselves. They're not using other people's money.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Mister Fancypants