500K illegal immigrants defy deportation orders

[IAMX 3,055]

Don't think anyone would want to be illegal. But honestly like everyone tell me before I do this all legal. The illegals get here faster and have more rights than the ones who do it legally and also they don't have to pay any income tax so go figure. The system is only setup to protect the illegals and persecute the ones that do it legal.

While I mostly agree with you, the part in the bold has been stomped all over so many times now.. illegals do pay income tax, dude.

untrue blanket statement. some do, those paid under the table don't. and i'd be willing to bet quite a few of those that do pay have a large number of deductions to ease that tax burden.

Those paid under the table are paid illegally, and obviously don't count because if the employer doesn't report the employment and pay taxes on that, he gets f*cked twice as hard when caught. While the government may not take his employing illegals all that seriously, they will take not getting their money this way. Illegals paying into Social Security, for instance, is one of the biggest refuting of the notion that "they don't have to pay any income tax". Patently false and easily dismissed.

yet social security isn't an income tax.

Is it taken out of your income? Why yes, it sure is. It is no different than a tax. Plus, they pay fed and (in CA) state.

They can also collect on their taxes. Just not get SSI/retirement.

Edited November 14, 2008 by SRVT

[Ban Hammer 14,614]

Ohhh nooo illegals amongst us!! ohhh nooo!

They are here to stay, deal with it and move on with your lives

that's right, surrender now to avoid the rush.

[Ban Hammer 14,614]

Don't think anyone would want to be illegal. But honestly like everyone tell me before I do this all legal. The illegals get here faster and have more rights than the ones who do it legally and also they don't have to pay any income tax so go figure. The system is only setup to protect the illegals and persecute the ones that do it legal.

While I mostly agree with you, the part in the bold has been stomped all over so many times now.. illegals do pay income tax, dude.

untrue blanket statement. some do, those paid under the table don't. and i'd be willing to bet quite a few of those that do pay have a large number of deductions to ease that tax burden.

Those paid under the table are paid illegally, and obviously don't count because if the employer doesn't report the employment and pay taxes on that, he gets f*cked twice as hard when caught. While the government may not take his employing illegals all that seriously, they will take not getting their money this way. Illegals paying into Social Security, for instance, is one of the biggest refuting of the notion that "they don't have to pay any income tax". Patently false and easily dismissed.

yet social security isn't an income tax.

Is it taken out of your income? Why yes, it sure is. It is no different than a tax. Plus, they pay fed and (in CA) state.

They can also collect on their taxes. Just not get SSI/retirement.

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) tax (pronounced /ˈfаɪkə/) is a United States payroll (or employment) tax[1]

link

[Heracles 417]

Is it taken out of your income? Why yes, it sure is. It is no different than a tax. Plus, they pay fed and (in CA) state.

They can also collect on their taxes. Just not get SSI/retirement.

Yes and this point has been proven time and time again both here and abroad. Why don't you ask someone in the health care industry how many times they have to accept and treat illegal immigrants in emergency rooms yet never see a dime from them. Or how about the counties which are forced to educate their kids and provide free lunch.

When you get paid under the table you don't pay any tax. What part of that do you fail to comprehend. Most illegal immigrants would be cash in hand workers. Those with falsified documents would be the minority.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Aficionado

[IAMX 3,055]

Don't think anyone would want to be illegal. But honestly like everyone tell me before I do this all legal. The illegals get here faster and have more rights than the ones who do it legally and also they don't have to pay any income tax so go figure. The system is only setup to protect the illegals and persecute the ones that do it legal.

While I mostly agree with you, the part in the bold has been stomped all over so many times now.. illegals do pay income tax, dude.

untrue blanket statement. some do, those paid under the table don't. and i'd be willing to bet quite a few of those that do pay have a large number of deductions to ease that tax burden.

Those paid under the table are paid illegally, and obviously don't count because if the employer doesn't report the employment and pay taxes on that, he gets f*cked twice as hard when caught. While the government may not take his employing illegals all that seriously, they will take not getting their money this way. Illegals paying into Social Security, for instance, is one of the biggest refuting of the notion that "they don't have to pay any income tax". Patently false and easily dismissed.

yet social security isn't an income tax.

Is it taken out of your income? Why yes, it sure is. It is no different than a tax. Plus, they pay fed and (in CA) state.

They can also collect on their taxes. Just not get SSI/retirement.

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) tax (pronounced /ˈfаɪkə/) is a United States payroll (or employment) tax[1]

link

Here's a little help from a paystub of mine (hope you get checks -- I marked the relevant parts in red for you):

Is it taken out of your income? Why yes, it sure is. It is no different than a tax. Plus, they pay fed and (in CA) state.

They can also collect on their taxes. Just not get SSI/retirement.

Yes and this point has been proven time and time again both here and abroad. Why don't you ask someone in the health care industry how many times they have to accept and treat illegal immigrants in emergency rooms yet never see a dime from them. Or how about the counties which are forced to educate their kids and provide free lunch.

When you get paid under the table you don't pay any tax. What part of that do you fail to comprehend. Most illegal immigrants would be cash in hand workers. Those with falsified documents would be the minority.

Goddamn man, wild tangent indeed.

[Heracles 417]

Goddamn man, wild tangent indeed.

What is the apparent tangent this time?

PS you have to get a new name to call me. WT is reserved by Steven.

[Ban Hammer 14,614]

Here's a little help from a paystub of mine (hope you get checks -- I marked the relevant parts in red for you):

that's nice and wonderful. go back to the original statement by me:

yet social security isn't an income tax.

compare it to my previous post:

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) tax (pronounced /ˈfаɪkə/) is a United States payroll (or employment) tax[1]

link

would you like to buy a vowel at this point?

[IAMX 3,055]

Goddamn man, wild tangent indeed.

What is the apparent tangent this time?

PS you have to get a new name to call me. WT is reserved by Steven.

Well he's got quite a bit of copyright claims to file as it's been used by many.

The tangent is your addressing every possible immigration issue at once when we're going after one specific thing. Do you have focus problems?

As mentioned it isn't legal to pay an illegal immigrant under the table (therefore the employer is busted and has to make up for it), so obviously that isn't even the issue here. The issue is the fact that the poster I quoted was wrong because illegals DO pay taxes. Here in CA they'd pay federal, state, and social security taxes, as well as other taxes as shown on the pay stub above. If this is too difficult to comprehend, I dunno what to tell you.

[IAMX 3,055]

Here's a little help from a paystub of mine (hope you get checks -- I marked the relevant parts in red for you):

that's nice and wonderful. go back to the original statement by me:

yet social security isn't an income tax.

compare it to my previous post:

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) tax (pronounced /ˈfаɪkə/) is a United States payroll (or employment) tax[1]

link

would you like to buy a vowel at this point?

Yeah, how about something that actually suggests illegals don't pay taxes. Otherwise the link you posted is worthless.

[Ban Hammer 14,614]

Here's a little help from a paystub of mine (hope you get checks -- I marked the relevant parts in red for you):

that's nice and wonderful. go back to the original statement by me:

yet social security isn't an income tax.

compare it to my previous post:

The Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) tax (pronounced /ˈfаɪkə/) is a United States payroll (or employment) tax[1]

link

would you like to buy a vowel at this point?

Yeah, how about something that actually suggests illegals don't pay taxes. Otherwise the link you posted is worthless.

get a butterfly net because it's flying over your head. social security isn't an income tax!

[Heracles 417]

Well he's got quite a bit of copyright claims to file as it's been used by many.

The tangent is your addressing every possible immigration issue at once when we're going after one specific thing. Do you have focus problems?

Yes. I cannot focus on bull ####### to long.

As mentioned it isn't legal to pay an illegal immigrant under the table (therefore the employer is busted and has to make up for it), so obviously that isn't even the issue here. The issue is the fact that the poster I quoted was wrong because illegals DO pay taxes. Here in CA they'd pay federal, state, and social security taxes, as well as other taxes as shown on the pay stub above. If this is too difficult to comprehend, I dunno what to tell you.

The reality is that the majority of illegal immigrants are paid under the table. Hence the problem of illegal immigration. Why do you think every other OECD nation is so tough on illegal immigrants? Whereas they are free to move around here as they please. Free to open bank accounts. Free to get jobs. Free to send their kids to schools. Free to drive. Free to buy cars or property.

Dude I can already predict your stereotypical response. There is no reasoning with you because when I proceed to bring up examples of other nations, like the EU, you refuse to listen to what they are doing. Which is ironic considering how much you went on about how well Toyota is doing, a Japanese company, yet refuse to accept or listen to anything about other nations that are doing things better than the US. So make up your mind. You are either going to consider and accept countries / companies abroad or you are not.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Aficionado

[IAMX 3,055]

Well he's got quite a bit of copyright claims to file as it's been used by many.

The tangent is your addressing every possible immigration issue at once when we're going after one specific thing. Do you have focus problems?

Yes. I cannot focus on bull ####### to long.

As mentioned it isn't legal to pay an illegal immigrant under the table (therefore the employer is busted and has to make up for it), so obviously that isn't even the issue here. The issue is the fact that the poster I quoted was wrong because illegals DO pay taxes. Here in CA they'd pay federal, state, and social security taxes, as well as other taxes as shown on the pay stub above. If this is too difficult to comprehend, I dunno what to tell you.

The reality is that the majority of illegal immigrants are paid under the table. Hence the problem of illegal immigration. Why do you think every other OECD nation is so tough on illegal immigrants? Whereas they are free to move around here as they please. Free to open bank accounts. Free to get jobs. Free to send their kids to schools. Free to drive. Free to buy cars or property.

Dude I can already predict your stereotypical response. There is no reasoning with you because when I proceed to bring up examples of other nations, like the EU, you refuse to listen to what they are doing. Which is ironic considering how much you went on about how well Toyota is doing, a Japanese company, yet refuse to accept or listen to anything about other nations that are doing things better than the US. So make up your mind. You are either going to consider and accept countries / companies abroad or you are not.

Toyota has actually gained marketshare here, and isn't suffering half as bad as Ford and GM. Evidently they're not doing as much wrong, are they?

Here's a nice article that might (or not, which I assume) open your eyes to the reality you aren't aware off in no-man's land. I put the most relevant part in big letter for you since I know you'll have a tough time otherwise reading this:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/securit...axes-immigrants

At tax time, many illegal immigrants are paying too

The Internal Revenue Service doesn't track a person's immigration status but experts say many illegal immigrants file returns.

NASHVILLE, Tenn. The tax system collects its due, even from a class of workers with little likelihood of claiming a refund and no hope of drawing a Social Security check.

Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn't fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.

Paycheck withholding collects much of the federal tax from illegal workers, just as it does for legal workers.

The Internal Revenue Service doesn't track a worker's immigration status, yet many illegal immigrants fearful of deportation won't risk the government attention that will come from filing a return even if they might qualify for a refund. Economist William Ford of Middle Tennessee State University says there are no firm figures on how many such taxpayers there are.

"The real question is how many of them pay more than they owe. There are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands of people in that situation," Ford said.

But some illegal immigrants choose to file taxes and write a check come April 15, using an alternative to the Social Security number offered by the IRS so it can collect income tax from foreign workers.

"It's a mistake to think that no illegal immigrants pay taxes. They definitely do," said Martha Pantoja, who has been helping Hispanic immigrants this tax season as an IRS-certified volunteer tax preparer for the nonprofit Nashville Wealth Building Coalition.

Among those she has assisted is Eric Jimenez, a self-employed handyman who has worked in Nashville for several years. He feels obliged to pay taxes – even though, as Pantoja said, "nothing would happen" to him if he did not.

"I have an idea, a mentality, that to be a good citizen you have to pay taxes," he said. "Also, I'm conscious of the fact that the money we pay in taxes supports the schools and all the public services."

Pantoja said she has helped a number of construction workers who, because they are classified as independent contractors by their employers and have no taxes withheld, owe big tax bills come April. Beyond income tax, they have to pay the full Social Security and Medicare taxes due.

The Social Security Administration estimates that about three-quarters of illegal workers pay taxes that contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare.

The agency estimates that for 2005, the last year for which figures are available, about $9 billion in taxes was paid on about $75 billion in wages from people who filed W2 forms with incorrect or mismatched data, which would include illegal immigrants who drew paychecks under fake names and Social Security numbers.

Spokesman Mark Hinkle says Social Security does not know how much of the $9 billion can be attributed to illegal immigrants. The number is certainly not 100 percent, but a significant portion probably comes from taxes paid by illegal immigrants.

Nine billion dollars sounds like a lot of money, and it is, but it is only about 1.5 percent of the total $593 billion paid into Social Security in 2005.

The impact on Social Security is significant, though, because most of that money is never claimed by the people who pay it but instead helps cover retirement checks to legal workers.

Federal law prohibits paying Social Security to illegal immigrants, but the administration factors in both legal and illegal immigration when projecting the trust fund's long-term solvency.

So please, bumhunter, tell me you know more than the SSA about the money it collects.

Edited November 15, 2008 by SRVT

[Heracles 417]

Yeah, how about something that actually suggests illegals don't pay taxes. Otherwise the link you posted is worthless.

And you obviously have evidence they do right. I am sure the illegal immigrants I see hanging out for day labor are given a 1099-MISC after each job

Edited November 15, 2008 by Aficionado

[Heracles 417]

estimates

Being the key word. Do you actually think they have a way to determine or quantify those being paid under the table. If they do it will be a world first.

[IAMX 3,055]

estimates

Being the key word. Do you actually think they have a way to determine or quantify those being paid under the table. If they do it will be a world first.

In the VERY next sentence from those nice big words, it says. Do I need to make all of the words big for your attention span to catch it?

The agency estimates that for 2005, the last year for which figures are available, about $9 billion in taxes was paid on about $75 billion in wages from people who filed W2 forms with incorrect or mismatched data, which would include illegal immigrants who drew paychecks under fake names and Social Security numbers.