Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act

[rocks 494]

Anyone, regardless of where they start in life, can succeed in America. It happens all the time. We don't need the government taking from one group to give to another for that to happen.

Then no tax cut for you!

Next!

[Scott & Lai 12]

I want an America where a persons station in life is dictated by the choices they make and the work the provide.

that would be possible if we all started with the same privilages, but we don't

Anyone, regardless of where they start in life, can succeed in America. It happens all the time. We don't need the government taking from one group to give to another for that to happen.

Then no tax cut for you!

Next!

Unfortunately when the economy has been mis-managed, raising taxes is inevitable.

Why isn't tightening the belt of the national budget inevitable?

I can think right away how to save about $12 billion a month!

So, if we weren't in Iraq, everything would be peachy? The money we are spending there would be used to eliminate the national debt, instead of new and expanded government programs? We'd all just be given the money back?

[britty 1]

I want an America where a persons station in life is dictated by the choices they make and the work the provide.

that would be possible if we all started with the same privilages, but we don't

Anyone, regardless of where they start in life, can succeed in America. It happens all the time. We don't need the government taking from one group to give to another for that to happen.

Then no tax cut for you!

Next!

Unfortunately when the economy has been mis-managed, raising taxes is inevitable.

Why isn't tightening the belt of the national budget inevitable?

I can think right away how to save about $12 billion a month!

So, if we weren't in Iraq, everything would be peachy? The money we are spending there would be used to eliminate the national debt, instead of new and expanded government programs? We'd all just be given the money back?

good question

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't really care about most Americans - they certainly don't care about me

f##k them.

Wow. And I thought that the Republicans* held the monopoly on what is to be considered patriotic or un-american.

Seriously - this should be their new party slogan.

"We don't care about most Americans"

*Just thought I'd try on Kaydees hat of ridiculous generalizations.

and how about you quote the whole of the post instead of the one piece that fits your agenda? Typical behavior.

As I said - I was trying out the tactics of the "other side".

You know... the people who feel the need to demean themselves with ridiculous diatribes about "liberals" and "left-wing" types.

do you have any names?

brit....Number6 is talking about me...This is characteristic behavior so don't be alarmed. He mimicks the sterotypical liberal; attack with innuendo over time....

But alas he becomes very irritated and reacts as you see above when the association to "liberal" is made.

He's convinced himself that if he says these things long enough it somehow diminishes the threat I pose to his (closet)liberal beliefs....

He needs your pity and understanding as he works through this difficult political season. If you believe in a God then please say a prayer for his recovery.

Amen!

Actually I think you demean and embarrass yourself with your silly generalizations and labelling. You are quite simply incapable of framing an opposing idea into anything other than this stereotyped concoction you've cooked up of the typical liberal - so its not surprising that anyone who challenges you on this ####### becomes in your mind the "stereotypical liberal".

Business Bullshit as usual

[Heracles 417]

As I said - I was trying out the tactics of the "other side".

You know... the people who feel the need to demean themselves with ridiculous diatribes about "liberals" and "left-wing" types.

It is also extremely naive to brush everything off as simply generalizing, therefore invalid.

Every time the word liberal comes up it is generalizing. Strangely enough I have never ever seen you suggest that to someone else in any of your 21,297 posts when it comes to negative comments and the generalizations of Christians, conservatives or white men and slavery. You seem to be all quite on the western front with those topics. But when it comes to labels that your views tend to support, then a negative comment is generalizing.

[Heracles 417]

Actually I think you demean and embarrass yourself with your silly generalizations and labelling. You are quite simply incapable of framing an opposing idea into anything other than this stereotyped concoction you've cooked up of the typical liberal - so its not surprising that anyone who challenges you on this ####### becomes in your mind the "stereotypical liberal".

Business Bullshit as usual

Lol "challenges". Good one mate. Insulting someone is not challenging. Insults is the norm in OT from 'the group' towards conservative views.

Edited September 19, 2008 by Aficionado

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As I said - I was trying out the tactics of the "other side".

You know... the people who feel the need to demean themselves with ridiculous diatribes about "liberals" and "left-wing" types.

It is also extremely naive to brush everything off as simply generalizing, therefore invalid.

Every time the word liberal comes up it is generalizing. Strangely enough I have never ever seen you suggest that to someone else in any of your 21,297 posts when it comes to negative comments and the generalizations of Christians, conservatives or white men and slavery. You seem to be all quite on the western front with those topics. But when it comes to labels that your views tend to support, then a negative comment is generalizing.

"You haven't seen" is usually code for "I can't remember", "I don't want to see", "I can't be bothered to look".

Besides I'm only responsible for myself - and for slurs that I perceive to be an attack on me and my belief system. I don't make rampant, stereotypical generalizations about "conservative types" - so whether or not I'm quiet when others do that is irrelevant for the simple reason that it doesn't affect me.

Actually I think you demean and embarrass yourself with your silly generalizations and labelling. You are quite simply incapable of framing an opposing idea into anything other than this stereotyped concoction you've cooked up of the typical liberal - so its not surprising that anyone who challenges you on this ####### becomes in your mind the "stereotypical liberal".

Business Bullshit as usual

Lol "challenges". Good one mate. Insulting someone is not challenging. Insults is the norm in OT from 'the group' towards conservative views.

I'm not sure I've seen Kaydees "conservative" views. I have however, seen his insulting stereotyping.

I don't really think that's the same. Do you?

I mean... if it is the same, then I'll certainly shut up

Edited September 19, 2008 by Paul Daniels

[Heracles 417]

"You haven't seen" is usually code for "I can't remember", "I don't want to see", "I can't be bothered to look".

Seen as in your posts. This is not the first time you have been caught out with your double standards. That is, the rules you apply to people you stereotypically disagree with, 'generally' do not apply to those who you have similar views with.

Here is some info about American liberals: or is generalizing too??

Liberalism in the United States is a broad political and philosophical mindset, favoring individual liberty, and opposing restrictions on liberty, whether they come from established religion, from government regulation, or from the existing class structure.[1] Liberalism in the United States takes various forms, ranging from classical liberalism to social liberalism to neoliberalism.

[Liberals are] Predominantly white (83%), most highly educated group (49% have a college degree or more), and youngest group after Bystanders. Least religious group in typology: 43% report they seldom or never attend religious services; nearly a quarter (22%) are seculars. More than one-third never married (36%). Largest group residing in urban areas (42%) and in the western half the country (34%). Wealthiest Democratic group (41% earn at least $75,000). - Pew Research Center

Some positions associated with liberalism in the United States

• Individual freedom
• unalienable human and natural rights
• freedom of speech and the press
• separation of church and state
• equality of opportunity for all regardless of race, age, religion, income, sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity
• freedom of information; the right to know what the government is doing
• the rule of law; the equal protection of the law
• higher concern for the environment and worker rights than market forces
• the value to society of working people [18]
• social security, universal health care, and the provision of support to poor workers & families
• progressive taxation
• reluctance to use military force in a rash and hasty manner
• woman's right to choose to have an abortion
• proclivity toward supporting "home" issues versus foreign
• proclivity toward supporting federal power versus state power
• proclivity toward supporting public education versus private
• right of citizens to have legally recognized marriages/unions regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity

Edited September 19, 2008 by Aficionado

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If there's a double standard I fail to see how its mine - I'm not the one going off on ridiculous diatribes based on cartoon stereotypes.

[Heracles 417]

If there's a double standard I fail to see how its mine - I'm not the one going off on ridiculous diatribes based on cartoon stereotypes.

So is it stereotyping or is it generalizing?

PS Based on your "high standards" and keeping them honest approach, that is with anyone you disagree with, is it safe to assume someone who supports the majority of those points quoted in my previous post is a liberal?

Edited September 19, 2008 by Aficionado

[Heracles 417]

Here #6 I will even throw in the definition of a conservative in the United States:

Conservatism in the United States includes a variety of political ideologies including fiscal conservatism, supply-side economics, social conservatism,[1] libertarian conservatism, bioconservatism and religious conservatism,[2] as well as support for a strong military,[3] and federalism. Modern American conservatism was largely born out of alliance between classic liberals and social conservatives in the late 19th and early 20th century.[4]

Conservatism in general traces its heritage back to British political philosopher Edmund Burke, who developed his views in response to the French Revolution. The term was coined by French politician Chateaubriand in 1819.[5]

In the United States today, the word "conservative" is often used very differently from the way the word was used in the past and still is used in many parts of the world. The core ideals of historical conservatism, the way they are popularly understood today, were preserving the power of the land-owning class and preserving strong ties between church and state. As the industrial revolution led to a new manufacturing and professional elite, the ideals of conservatism changed to embrace laissez-faire economics and an opposition to socialism.[13] In the United States, from the mid-20th century on, these two forms of conservatism have largely combined, but still are at odds with those who believe in both limited government and free market economics. Barry Goldwater is one example of a "free enterprise" conservative, one of the last Republican proponents of classical liberalism and small government. Jerry Falwell is an example of a Christian conservative, and indicative of the new alliance between large government conservatives, like George W. Bush, and the religiously-informed proponents of conservative social policy.

In the 21st century U.S., some of the groups calling themselves "conservative" include:

1. Classical or institutional conservatism — Opposition to rapid change in governmental and societal institutions. This kind of conservatism is anti-ideological insofar as it emphasizes process (slow change) over product (any particular form of government). To the classical conservative, whether one arrives at a government controlled by a particular political party is less important than whether change is effected through rule of law rather than through revolution and sudden innovation. The classical conservative emphasizes historical continuity, to ensure that a reform does not cause chaos within both the populace and historical institutions of a given society. Classical conservatives also favor tradition over experimentation, and have an inherent distrust in utopian schemes.

2. Ideological conservatism or right-wing conservatism — In contrast to the anti-ideological classical conservatism, right-wing conservatism is, as its name implies, ideological. It favors business and established religion, and opposes socialism and communism.

3. Christian conservatism — Conservative Christians are primarily interested in what they describe as family values. They believe that the United States was founded as a Christian nation, believe that abortion is wrong, favor teacher-led Christian prayer in state schools, define marriage as between one man and one woman (rejecting same-sex marriage), and desire regulation of the public media to reduce profanity and sexual references. They strongly oppose the normalization of homosexuality.

4. Neoconservatism — A modern form of conservatism that supports a more assertive foreign policy, aimed at supporting American business interests abroad. Neoconservatism was first described by a group of disaffected liberals, and thus Irving Kristol, usually credited as its intellectual progenitor, defined a neoconservative as "a liberal who was mugged by reality." Although originally regarded as an approach to domestic policy (the founding instrument of the movement, Kristol's The Public Interest periodical, did not even cover foreign affairs), through the influence of figures like ####### Cheney, Robert Kagan, Richard Perle, Kenneth Adelman and (Irving's son) Bill Kristol, it has become more famous for its association with the foreign policy of the George W. Bush administration.

5. Small government conservatism — Small government conservatives look for a decreased role of the federal government. They follow the Founding Fathers in their suspicion of a powerful federal government.

6. Paleoconservatism — Arising in the 1980s in reaction to neoconservatism, stresses tradition, especially Christian tradition and the importance to society of the traditional family. Paleoconservatives strongly oppose government intervention into people's lives. Some, Samuel P. Huntington for example, argue that multiracial, multiethnic, and egalitarian states are inherently unstable.[14] Paleoconservatives are generally isolationist, and suspicious of foreign influence.

7. Libertarian conservatism — Emphasizes a strict interpretation of the United States Constitution, particularly with regard to federal power. This mode of thinking tends to espouse laissez-faire economics and a disdain for and distrust of the federal government. Libertarian conservatives' emphasis on personal freedom often leads them to adopt social positions contrary to those of Christian conservatives.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You can post all the dictionary/wikipedia definitions you like. People are individuals, not stereotypes. What's wrong with talking to them as individuals?

BTW - none of this addresses that ####### that Kaydee yips on about 24/7. You can defend him all you like, but I suggest that its probably a good idea to actually read what it is you're defending. None of what you've posted there justifies it.

[Heracles 417]

You can post all the dictionary/wikipedia definitions you like. People are individuals, not stereotypes. What's wrong with talking to them as individuals?

BTW - none of this addresses that ####### that Kaydee yips on about 24/7. You can defend him all you like, but I suggest that its probably a good idea to actually read what it is you're defending. None of what you've posted there justifies it.

Humans have a pack mentality. Every where I have been and lived I have been able to identify and spot out the various groups. Very few people are as individualistic as many make themselves out to be.

For example, I am sure every wannabe movie star in Hollywood thinks they are 'unique'.

Edited September 19, 2008 by Aficionado

[Peikko 1,575]

You might live in a neighbourhood of packs and mobs, but I don't and I don't treat people as representative of a group. What a bizarre human being you (yes, BY, you personally, not whatever you think you represent) are.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Its really simple - hold people to account for their own words, not that of others.

You might live in a neighbourhood of packs and mobs, but I don't and I don't treat people as representative of a group. What a bizarre human being you (yes, BY, you personally, not whatever you think you represent) are.

Bingo