Including passport pages?

[motu 6]

Well, I'm including plenty of pictures- whether they be primary or secondary- the adjudicator can decide what my pictures are worth. I bought a cellphone while in Mexico though, so my receipt should be able to prove that my fiance and I are in love and our relationship is real, right? haha, just kidding. sorry- I'm feeling quite stressed this evening as I put the finishing touches on the petition.

Do not stress about it. I did not include any copies of passport pages/ receipts/boarding passes etc. All I sent was two pictures of us together and a copy of my itinerary - I used one line on I129 to describe how we met. So at least in my case - that was enough!

You can only send what you have so don't worry about it, send what you have and what makes you comfortable. As you go through this process you will realize that most people feel compelled to send some or many things as it makes them feel 'happy or justified or smug' with their quantity or quality of proof - how the examiner sees it is another matter. So don't worry - have another Pacifico and Good Luck

[Mike-Mely 0]

I would still say its a matter of opinion as to which catagory photos or recipts fall into, as either one could be faked.

I don't mean to sound crass, but...well...you can say whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true. Photos are secondary evidence. Period. You can include primary evidence in your packet without including secondary evidence, and you'll be fine. If you only include secondary evidence, and not primary evidence, guaranteed you'll be RFE'd. So it's not opinion. It's factual, and I just quoted chapter and verse for you to prove it.

Well what your saying is only your opinion or maybe the opinion of others as well, thats what you seem to fail to realize. Just because you say it or its your opinon doesnt make it fact either. You have provided nothing that offically states it to be fact. You do this quite often-present your opinion of things as fact. If anyone is confusing other VJers its you.

[Mike-Mely 0]

Well what your saying is only your opinion or maybe the opinion of others as well, thats what you seem to fail to realize. Just because you say it or its your opinon doesnt make it fact either. You have provided nothing that offically states it to be fact.

What part of the Adjudicator's Field Manual do you believe is my opinion?

Once again--and I only say this for the benefit of new filers, because it's obvious that you can't even be bothered to do the basic research--photos are secondary evidence. Receipts, hotel bills, boarding passes, and other written, verifiable documentation are primary evidence.

Mike-Mely, I've already cited a source supporting my argument. If you would care to cite a source supporting your argument that it's all one and the same, please share.

You do this quite often-present your opinion of things as fact. If anyone is confusing other VJers its you.

Care to back that up? Or can you not be bothered to research that little bon mot either?

This is what you provided from the AFR on the USCIS website.

"Primary evidence is evidence which on its face proves a fact. Secondary evidence is evidence which makes it more likely that the fact sought to be proven by the primary evidence is true, but cannot do so on its own face, without any external reference."

No where does it say anything about what types of evidence fall into which catagory.

It does not say anything there that travel docs, stamps, etc are primary and photos are secondary. This is something that you and possibly others have decided in your mind. That does not make it fact. You saying its a fact, Period does not either. The interpretation of this statement would be argueable among lawyers who could then only render an opinion albiet an educated one as to how this applies to the evidence we have been asked to provide.

Please read post #22 in this thread-how does this go along with your guareentee that evidence of this nature will return an RFE?

[Mike-Mely 0]

You do this quite often-present your opinion of things as fact. If anyone is confusing other VJers its you.

Once again, either put up or shut up. Either back this statement up with factual evidence, or retract it.

This is what you provided from the AFR on the USCIS website.

"Primary evidence is evidence which on its face proves a fact. Secondary evidence is evidence which makes it more likely that the fact sought to be proven by the primary evidence is true, but cannot do so on its own face, without any external reference."

No where does it say anything about what types of evidence fall into which catagory.

Once again, from the Adjudicator's Field Manual:

Primary evidence is evidence which on its face proves a fact.

...

Secondary evidence is evidence which makes it more likely that the fact sought to be proven by the primary evidence is true, but cannot do so on its own face, without any external reference.

It does not say anything there that travel docs, stamps, etc are primary and photos are secondary. This is something that you and possibly others have decided in your mind. That does not make it fact. You saying its a fact, Period does not either. The interpretation of this statement would be argueable among lawyers who could then only render an opinion albiet an educated one as to how this applies to the evidence we have been asked to provide.

*sigh*

Here's a photo.

On the back of the photo the happy couple have written their names, that this picture was taken in Lisbon, Portugal, and a date of July 10, 2007. Or maybe it says that the picture was taken in Huatulco, Mexico on February 22, 2008. Or how about Manilla, PI on December 3, 2006. Now ask yourself...is this photograph "evidence which on its face proves a fact."? Or is it evidence that can't stand on its own "without any external reference."?

Take your time.

Please read post #22 in this thread-how does this go along with your guareentee that evidence of this nature will return an RFE?

Because I have read cases on VJ where people only sent in photos and were RFE'd, which is what you should be doing (reading that is) before taking such a silly position. Now I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do any more of your research for you, so if you can't be bothered to research the matter yourself, you really just need to take your ball and go home.

1.Deciding what is primary and secondary evidence.

2.Guarenteeing that sending what youve decided is secondary evidence will get an RFE, when #22 disproves that.

3.The little charts I have seen you provide that say what will happen if you send or dont send certain kinds of evidence, once again disproved by post #22

Theres three examples of you presenting your opinion as fact just related to this subject.

Hows that?

As far as your photo example goes, I could make up a hotel reciept on the computer as well that would be just as convincing, and that according to you would be primary evidence.

All of these various types of evidence could be faked.

Nice non-answer and deflection of my direct question about your gaurentee there. I like how you discount the VJer who posted in this thread for all to see and reference ambigous "cases you have read"

Fortunately, like what is primary and what is secondary evidence, you dont get to determine what I do or dont do, or where I play ball and when I go home!