What has Hillary Clinton accomplished?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The real problem isn't universal healthcare or uninsured as much as how the 'health,' industry in America is totally out of whack. Why should one night in a hospital cost upwards of $12k? Why is two vicodin $50 when you get that in the emergency room? Why are medical bills so full of codes and gibberish few people can understand? Why do they send in 'specialists,' to look over a terminal patient for 5 minutes and then have the nerve to bill $500+ for their time?

Uninsured are at least part of the reason why prices are so high. You can go to the emergency room and leave without ever paying a bill. That cost is passed on in higher prices. So in a sense we have socialized health care already, its just really ineffceint since its only done through the emergency room.

Yep. The rich go to the best specialists directly without HMO's. The uninsured, poor, illegals, etc., run to the emergency room and refuse or are unable to pay.

The rest of us better have health care and better listen to the rules, but we still end up screwed if you have a chronic or terminal condition. 90% of most folks health care costs are incurred in the last 6 months of life - when they are dying.

US medical service probably IS best in the world IF

You have a particularly good insurance

You are in the right state

You are lucky

Speaking as someone who just had an "in your face" encounter with our health care system, I would hate to see anything change it. Luz was cared for in a prompt and complete manner. They didn't even ask for payment or insurance until AFTER she was taken care of and was in her room. Her insurance, the state she lived in and luck had nothing to do with it. She could have been an uninsured illegal or a vastly wealthy elite and there would have been no difference.

That's not a universal experience of course.

[Jaseball 0]

Speaking as someone who just had an "in your face" encounter with our health care system, I would hate to see anything change it. Luz was cared for in a prompt and complete manner. They didn't even ask for payment or insurance until AFTER she was taken care of and was in her room. Her insurance, the state she lived in and luck had nothing to do with it. She could have been an uninsured illegal or a vastly wealthy elite and there would have been no difference.

That is an emergency situation, right? God Forbid, but if you ever have to deal with a chronic or terminal condition for yourself, family, or other loved ones you may have a different view.

Also, be careful when you sign or have multiple doctors checking up on her. The billing system is BS in most places.

I lost a few loved ones and in some cases we saw bill for over 1 year after they died.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Speaking as someone who just had an "in your face" encounter with our health care system, I would hate to see anything change it. Luz was cared for in a prompt and complete manner. They didn't even ask for payment or insurance until AFTER she was taken care of and was in her room. Her insurance, the state she lived in and luck had nothing to do with it. She could have been an uninsured illegal or a vastly wealthy elite and there would have been no difference.

That is an emergency situation, right? God Forbid, but if you ever have to deal with a chronic or terminal condition for yourself, family, or other loved ones you may have a different view.

Also, be careful when you sign or have multiple doctors checking up on her. The billing system is BS in most places.

I lost a few loved ones and in some cases we saw bill for over 1 year after they died.

In CA, after I had an exploratory surgery I received bills for months afterwards - up to a year after I'd had the procedure. And what's worse I have no idea what some of the stuff was for. How you even know that you've been billed correctly is anyone's guess....

One thing I know from having used three systems

The French system is in no way over-rated and is generally the best

The English system is still pretty good, thanks mostly to staff in it

In the American you can often suggest procedures which you can get if your insurance accepts them

whereas the French or English system will not accept them (ironically they can be French or English procedures) because they SAY they're unproven (they MEAN too expensive)

However, Americans hate taxes the way the French and English do not and these systems are expensive.

I've noticed that in countries said to have the highest quality of life, they also have the highest taxes...

Edited February 22, 2008 by Number 6

[Jaseball 0]

Speaking as someone who just had an "in your face" encounter with our health care system, I would hate to see anything change it. Luz was cared for in a prompt and complete manner. They didn't even ask for payment or insurance until AFTER she was taken care of and was in her room. Her insurance, the state she lived in and luck had nothing to do with it. She could have been an uninsured illegal or a vastly wealthy elite and there would have been no difference.

That is an emergency situation, right? God Forbid, but if you ever have to deal with a chronic or terminal condition for yourself, family, or other loved ones you may have a different view.

Also, be careful when you sign or have multiple doctors checking up on her. The billing system is BS in most places.

I lost a few loved ones and in some cases we saw bill for over 1 year after they died.

In CA, after I had an exploratory surgery I received bills for months afterwards - up to a year after I'd had the procedure. And what's worse I have no idea what some of the stuff was for. How you even know that you've been billed correctly is anyone's guess....

Another problem is they sometimes bill you 2-3x under different codes for the same service.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Speaking as someone who just had an "in your face" encounter with our health care system, I would hate to see anything change it. Luz was cared for in a prompt and complete manner. They didn't even ask for payment or insurance until AFTER she was taken care of and was in her room. Her insurance, the state she lived in and luck had nothing to do with it. She could have been an uninsured illegal or a vastly wealthy elite and there would have been no difference.

That is an emergency situation, right? God Forbid, but if you ever have to deal with a chronic or terminal condition for yourself, family, or other loved ones you may have a different view.

Also, be careful when you sign or have multiple doctors checking up on her. The billing system is BS in most places.

I lost a few loved ones and in some cases we saw bill for over 1 year after they died.

In CA, after I had an exploratory surgery I received bills for months afterwards - up to a year after I'd had the procedure. And what's worse I have no idea what some of the stuff was for. How you even know that you've been billed correctly is anyone's guess....

Another problem is they sometimes bill you 2-3x under different codes for the same service.

Yeah I saw that too - there was a website I could log into to check on what charges had been applied. It was confusing as hell - and yes what turned out to be the same item had been charged 3 times. It was quite worrying as one of the charges was for many thousands of dollars. In the end I ended up paying around $700. How anyone sorts that mess is a mystery to me - but its completely mystifying to the consumer; and you are essentially at the mercy of the bureaucrats in the billing department - with their formidable array for "form letters".

Edited February 22, 2008 by Number 6

[Dan J 277]

Has anyone actually tried to call around to different clinics and hospitals to find out what services cost? You will either get, we don't know or some ballpark general figure as to what the particular service will cost.

The only services that are usually advertised up front are elective ones, like LASIK.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Has anyone actually tried to call around to different clinics and hospitals to find out what services cost? You will either get, we don't know or some ballpark general figure as to what the particular service will cost.

The only services that are usually advertised up front are elective ones, like LASIK.

Yep - found that too. Soon as I found out I needed to have a procedure I tried finding out what it would cost. The hospital didn't know, my insurer didn't know...

Which brings up those health-savings accounts. How you can budget for something when you don't have the remotest idea of how much it will be?

Its impossible. Surely...