Mike Huckabee finally gets the message...

[rebeccajo 14]

Peejay,

You might want to look up.

Edited January 20, 2008 by rebeccajo

[rebeccajo 14]

Here Natty - This doesn't answer your question specifically but if you take 15 minutes to watch the link, it might key you in to just how complicated the whole issue really is.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid348471183

RJ

Before I go read the link ... first I want to say ... thanks for a civil response

Now to follow the link .....

It is a complicated issue ... that's a given.

So the question is ... what does the host country (USA) want to accomplish with (legal) immigration?

That may be a question for Solomon.

[natty bumppo 297]

Here Natty - This doesn't answer your question specifically but if you take 15 minutes to watch the link, it might key you in to just how complicated the whole issue really is.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid348471183

RJ

Before I go read the link ... first I want to say ... thanks for a civil response

Now to follow the link .....

It is a complicated issue ... that's a given.

So the question is ... what does the host country (USA) want to accomplish with (legal) immigration?

That may be a question for Solomon.

unfortunately we don't have solomon here today.

Observation from the video ... what happens if the technical (skilled) talent leaves a country (immigrates) to another? Does this make the original country less skilled ... less competitive ... less able to take care of itself ... more dependent on others?

[rebeccajo 14]

Here Natty - This doesn't answer your question specifically but if you take 15 minutes to watch the link, it might key you in to just how complicated the whole issue really is.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid348471183

RJ

Before I go read the link ... first I want to say ... thanks for a civil response

Now to follow the link .....

It is a complicated issue ... that's a given.

So the question is ... what does the host country (USA) want to accomplish with (legal) immigration?

That may be a question for Solomon.

unfortunately we don't have solomon here today.

Observation from the video ... what happens if the technical (skilled) talent leaves a country (immigrates) to another? Does this make the original country less skilled ... less competitive ... less able to take care of itself ... more dependent on others?

I dunno. But if you look at the screen behind the presenters, the first line mentions 'brain drain'. So I'm sure that's something this commission would have taken a look at.

Borjas and his studies are sometimes sited by VDare and other anti-immigrant groups to support their rhetoric about immigrant flooding of our nation. And they use those stats because they are by a learned man way smarter than themselves, or us.

Peejay isn't 100% wrong in his data, and Borjas and others can prove it. What the video shows, however, is how the question of human rights also comes into play. I believe that's a valid point in any discussion about immigration - to me it's just as important as the economic and demographic points.

In summation - inflammatory rhetoric that bangs the gong against illegal and legal immigration isn't the way to go with this issue. If you have to inflame people to get your point across, then your point is diminished.

Do you want to form your opinion of how people should be admitted to this nation by listening to those who speak the loudest? For that matter, do you form any of your beliefs that way? If you do, that's dangerous. For the history of the world is full of sorrowful stories of civilizations led astray by one man who spoke overtop of all the others, and in doing so captured the attention of his nation long enough to lead them down a path of despair.

[natty bumppo 297]

Here Natty - This doesn't answer your question specifically but if you take 15 minutes to watch the link, it might key you in to just how complicated the whole issue really is.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid348471183

RJ

Before I go read the link ... first I want to say ... thanks for a civil response

Now to follow the link .....

It is a complicated issue ... that's a given.

So the question is ... what does the host country (USA) want to accomplish with (legal) immigration?

That may be a question for Solomon.

unfortunately we don't have solomon here today.

Observation from the video ... what happens if the technical (skilled) talent leaves a country (immigrates) to another? Does this make the original country less skilled ... less competitive ... less able to take care of itself ... more dependent on others?

I dunno. But if you look at the screen behind the presenters, the first line mentions 'brain drain'. So I'm sure that's something this commission would have taken a look at.

Borjas and his studies are sometimes sited by VDare and other anti-immigrant groups to support their rhetoric about immigrant flooding of our nation. And they use those stats because they are by a learned man way smarter than themselves, or us.

Peejay isn't 100% wrong in his data, and Borjas and others can prove it. What the video shows, however, is how the question of human rights also comes into play. I believe that's a valid point in any discussion about immigration - to me it's just as important as the economic and demographic points.

In summation - inflammatory rhetoric that bangs the gong against illegal and legal immigration isn't the way to go with this issue. If you have to inflame people to get your point across, then your point is diminished.

Do you want to form your opinion of how people should be admitted to this nation by listening to those who speak the loudest? For that matter, do you form any of your beliefs that way? If you do, that's dangerous. For the history of the world is full of sorrowful stories of civilizations led astray by one man who spoke overtop of all the others, and in doing so captured the attention of his nation long enough to lead them down a path of despair.

Immigration (legal or illegal) being a human right ... I'm not sold on this as I believe nobody has a right to enter (immigrate to) another country against that countries wishes. The days of open borders to populate a country are long past.

[rebeccajo 14]

Here Natty - This doesn't answer your question specifically but if you take 15 minutes to watch the link, it might key you in to just how complicated the whole issue really is.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid348471183

RJ

Before I go read the link ... first I want to say ... thanks for a civil response

Now to follow the link .....

It is a complicated issue ... that's a given.

So the question is ... what does the host country (USA) want to accomplish with (legal) immigration?

That may be a question for Solomon.

unfortunately we don't have solomon here today.

Observation from the video ... what happens if the technical (skilled) talent leaves a country (immigrates) to another? Does this make the original country less skilled ... less competitive ... less able to take care of itself ... more dependent on others?

I dunno. But if you look at the screen behind the presenters, the first line mentions 'brain drain'. So I'm sure that's something this commission would have taken a look at.

Borjas and his studies are sometimes sited by VDare and other anti-immigrant groups to support their rhetoric about immigrant flooding of our nation. And they use those stats because they are by a learned man way smarter than themselves, or us.

Peejay isn't 100% wrong in his data, and Borjas and others can prove it. What the video shows, however, is how the question of human rights also comes into play. I believe that's a valid point in any discussion about immigration - to me it's just as important as the economic and demographic points.

In summation - inflammatory rhetoric that bangs the gong against illegal and legal immigration isn't the way to go with this issue. If you have to inflame people to get your point across, then your point is diminished.

Do you want to form your opinion of how people should be admitted to this nation by listening to those who speak the loudest? For that matter, do you form any of your beliefs that way? If you do, that's dangerous. For the history of the world is full of sorrowful stories of civilizations led astray by one man who spoke overtop of all the others, and in doing so captured the attention of his nation long enough to lead them down a path of despair.

Immigration (legal or illegal) being a human right ... I'm not sold on this as I believe nobody has a right to enter (immigrate to) another country against that countries wishes. The days of open borders to populate a country are long past.

I'm not saying it is a 'human right' to immigrate. Neither did the framers when they mentioned immigration in the Constitution and placed it under the auspices of the Federal government.

Other human rights, though, can come into play when laws are created to prove 'who we are' - ie a person legally in this country or not, by birth or by any other method. For a further discussion of that, there's a thread in this forum today begun by the member Kathryn41 that examples this.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106071

[natty bumppo 297]

Here Natty - This doesn't answer your question specifically but if you take 15 minutes to watch the link, it might key you in to just how complicated the whole issue really is.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid348471183

RJ

Before I go read the link ... first I want to say ... thanks for a civil response

Now to follow the link .....

It is a complicated issue ... that's a given.

So the question is ... what does the host country (USA) want to accomplish with (legal) immigration?

That may be a question for Solomon.

unfortunately we don't have solomon here today.

Observation from the video ... what happens if the technical (skilled) talent leaves a country (immigrates) to another? Does this make the original country less skilled ... less competitive ... less able to take care of itself ... more dependent on others?

I dunno. But if you look at the screen behind the presenters, the first line mentions 'brain drain'. So I'm sure that's something this commission would have taken a look at.

Borjas and his studies are sometimes sited by VDare and other anti-immigrant groups to support their rhetoric about immigrant flooding of our nation. And they use those stats because they are by a learned man way smarter than themselves, or us.

Peejay isn't 100% wrong in his data, and Borjas and others can prove it. What the video shows, however, is how the question of human rights also comes into play. I believe that's a valid point in any discussion about immigration - to me it's just as important as the economic and demographic points.

In summation - inflammatory rhetoric that bangs the gong against illegal and legal immigration isn't the way to go with this issue. If you have to inflame people to get your point across, then your point is diminished.

Do you want to form your opinion of how people should be admitted to this nation by listening to those who speak the loudest? For that matter, do you form any of your beliefs that way? If you do, that's dangerous. For the history of the world is full of sorrowful stories of civilizations led astray by one man who spoke overtop of all the others, and in doing so captured the attention of his nation long enough to lead them down a path of despair.

Immigration (legal or illegal) being a human right ... I'm not sold on this as I believe nobody has a right to enter (immigrate to) another country against that countries wishes. The days of open borders to populate a country are long past.

I'm not saying it is a 'human right' to immigrate. Neither did the framers when they mentioned immigration in the Constitution and placed it under the auspices of the Federal government.

Other human rights, though, can come into play when laws are created to prove 'who we are' - ie a person legally in this country or not, by birth or by any other method. For a further discussion of that, there's a thread in this forum today begun by the member Kathryn41 that examples this.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106071

Read the thread earlier and left it alone at that time. Unfortunately, if the US Gov't doesn't resolve/ remove the illegals themselves ... the States are going to make the the illegals feel most unwelcome. And there is a long way from introducing the bill to passage.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

With the economy hitting the skids, a moratorium on immigration, in general, is probably the last thing we need.

why ?

Why what why why why?

How?

Who?

...Where?

Again ... simple question ... why?

Please explain.

No

So the statement ... is not supported .. and is meaningless

Oh I support it. I just don't care to discuss well... anything... with you.

...

...

...

...

...

Ooh-er Missus

then ... you can simple ignore my posts ... and not respond (spam... harass)

And you can do likewise. In fact, perhaps you should. There - problem solved.

[natty bumppo 297]

With the economy hitting the skids, a moratorium on immigration, in general, is probably the last thing we need.

why ?

Why what why why why?

How?

Who?

...Where?

Again ... simple question ... why?

Please explain.

No

So the statement ... is not supported .. and is meaningless

Oh I support it. I just don't care to discuss well... anything... with you.

...

...

...

...

...

Ooh-er Missus

then ... you can simple ignore my posts ... and not respond (spam... harass)

And you can do likewise. In fact, perhaps you should. There - problem solved.

What problem ... you appear to have the problem.

Edited January 20, 2008 by Natty Bumppo

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

With the economy hitting the skids, a moratorium on immigration, in general, is probably the last thing we need.

why ?

Why what why why why?

How?

Who?

...Where?

Again ... simple question ... why?

Please explain.

No

So the statement ... is not supported .. and is meaningless

Oh I support it. I just don't care to discuss well... anything... with you.

...

...

...

...

...

Ooh-er Missus

then ... you can simple ignore my posts ... and not respond (spam... harass)

And you can do likewise. In fact, perhaps you should. There - problem solved.

What problem ... you appear to have the problem.

Piss off

[natty bumppo 297]

Why what why why why?

How?

Who?

...Where?

Again ... simple question ... why?

Please explain.

No

So the statement ... is not supported .. and is meaningless

Oh I support it. I just don't care to discuss well... anything... with you.

...

...

...

...

...

Ooh-er Missus

then ... you can simple ignore my posts ... and not respond (spam... harass)

And you can do likewise. In fact, perhaps you should. There - problem solved.

What problem ... you appear to have the problem.

Piss off

Still trying to project your problem ?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Why what why why why?

How?

Who?

...Where?

Again ... simple question ... why?

Please explain.

No

So the statement ... is not supported .. and is meaningless

Oh I support it. I just don't care to discuss well... anything... with you.

...

...

...

...

...

Ooh-er Missus

then ... you can simple ignore my posts ... and not respond (spam... harass)

And you can do likewise. In fact, perhaps you should. There - problem solved.

What problem ... you appear to have the problem.

Piss off

Still trying to project your problem ?

Project... Problem...

Sounds dirty...

[natty bumppo 297]

Again ... simple question ... why?

Please explain.

No

So the statement ... is not supported .. and is meaningless

Oh I support it. I just don't care to discuss well... anything... with you.

...

...

...

...

...

Ooh-er Missus

then ... you can simple ignore my posts ... and not respond (spam... harass)

And you can do likewise. In fact, perhaps you should. There - problem solved.

What problem ... you appear to have the problem.

Piss off

Still trying to project your problem ?

Project... Problem...

Sounds dirty...

Only in your mind.

... waiting for the next unsolicited attack ....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Only in your mind.

... waiting for the next unsolicited attack ....

Unsolicited? ...something you didn't seek out... request?

[natty bumppo 297]

Only in your mind.

... waiting for the next unsolicited attack ....

Unsolicited? ...something you didn't seek out... request?

Well ... since you've obviously nothing to add to the conversation R'Jo and I had earlier ... other than attacks ... please continue with your self justification ..

meanwhile ... ... waiting for the next unsolicited attack ....