The Open Political Debate Topic.

[Don_Joy's Prince 0]

Certainly. But that's not the same argument posed by that particular brand of Creationism which arises out of literal interpretations of the bible.

My personal view on this is that asking a modern audience to reject scientists' ongoing attempts to understand these phenomena and accept illogical, supernatural explanations is a bit unrealistic. I also feel that way about the general elements of religion that require a belief in the supernatural.

I am not saying that they are right or wrong, but that they do have the right to their beliefs. I think what you really scared of is that someone will actually believe them. On that note, I get the impression that the average person in America really believes that cavemen actually ran around with dinosaurs.

But back to the subject of teaching creationism vs. evolution in the public schools, this is one of the very reasons I don't believe that the government should be in the school system business. Like the Belgium system I was talking about, have the money follow the student not the school. Give the parents the tax credit or voucher or what ever instrument that you prefer to use and let the parents decide. If the are Christian then they will go to a Christian school, if you are secular progressive then chose a school like that, Muslim children may go to a Muslim school or whatever you get the picture. Then all this pledge of allegiance stuff and the creationism vs. evolution will all be settled. And the magic of this system is that if a school fails to teach the children it will cease to exist due to bankruptcy as the parents flee to a better school. That is what happens in Belgium. The students there speak 2 or 3 languages, are 4th or 5th in quality of education in the world, and the cost is half per student of the American school system.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Don_Joy's Prince

[Alex+R 0]

IMO, the public school system is pretty much all that holds together the US in terms of national identity.

[no name 1]

IMO, the public school system is pretty much all that holds together the US in terms of national identity.

Does that include these?

Children of Illegals in Public Schools

4,228,738

Cost of Illegals in K-12 Since 1996

$13,671,267,753

source

[Alex+R 0]

IMO, the public school system is pretty much all that holds together the US in terms of national identity.

Does that include these?

Children of Illegals in Public Schools

4,228,738

Cost of Illegals in K-12 Since 1996

$13,671,267,753

source

My post was not about illegal immigration; it was a response to Prince's post. However, any immigrant that grows up in the American school system is likely to develop an American identity, even if they hold onto another one as well. I think that's very useful to us as a nation, and really has zero to do with legal status.

[no name 1]

IMO, the public school system is pretty much all that holds together the US in terms of national identity.

Does that include these?

Children of Illegals in Public Schools

4,228,738

Cost of Illegals in K-12 Since 1996

$13,671,267,753

source

My post was not about illegal immigration; it was a response to Prince's post. However, any immigrant that grows up in the American school system is likely to develop an American identity, even if they hold onto another one as well. I think that's very useful to us as a nation, and really has zero to do with legal status.

I have a HUGE problem with illegals saying there are 'American'. And I bet I'm not alone.

[Don_Joy's Prince 0]

IMO, the public school system is pretty much all that holds together the US in terms of national identity.

Well it's an absolute failure! If something doesn't change it is going to crumble completely. We can't keep propping up a a failed system with large injections of cash. Most of my state taxes go to fund education, it's around 60% that is not counting my property taxes on my houses. Yet grows like a hungry beast more and more every year, yet at the same time it sinks deeper and deeper into failure. So much so that if I ever have children I will not put my children into Portland Public Schools. Of which I am a product of.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Don_Joy's Prince

[Alex+R 0]

I have a HUGE problem with illegals saying there are 'American'. And I bet I'm not alone.

I'm sure you're not, and I'm sure we all know how you feel about "illegals" by now. However, someone that grows up in the U.S., attending public school, is probably going to develop an affinity for the U.S. Whether you want those people here or not (and yes, we know you want them all sent home asap), don't you think it's better that they *like* America and feel a loyalty to it than not?

[no name 1]

I have a HUGE problem with illegals saying there are 'American'. And I bet I'm not alone.

I'm sure you're not, and I'm sure we all know how you feel about "illegals" by now. However, someone that grows up in the U.S., attending public school, is probably going to develop an affinity for the U.S. Whether you want those people here or not (and yes, we know you want them all sent home asap), don't you think it's better that they *like* America and feel a loyalty to it than not?

Why? They have no respect for it in the first place!!! I suppose sending millions of illegally earned $$ to Mexico shows their 'loyalty' to the uSA?

PS: We're all aware of how you feel about them too, no need to finger point.

Edited January 4, 2008 by devilette

[Alex+R 0]

Anyway, I certainly have about 0 interest in arguing about immigration policy with you. If you have anything else to talk about, then maybe I'll read.

[SMOKE 1,426]

IMO, the public school system is pretty much all that holds together the US in terms of national identity.

Does that include these?

Children of Illegals in Public Schools

4,228,738

Cost of Illegals in K-12 Since 1996

$13,671,267,753

source

My post was not about illegal immigration; it was a response to Prince's post. However, any immigrant that grows up in the American school system is likely to develop an American identity, even if they hold onto another one as well. I think that's very useful to us as a nation, and really has zero to do with legal status.

thought you & your hubby got all bent about people calling Americans "Americans".....doesn't that count for American schools too?

Edited January 4, 2008 by tapout

[no name 1]

Anyway, I certainly have about 0 interest in arguing about immigration policy with you. If you have anything else to talk about, then maybe I'll read.

ooh, how special u make me feel. Sadly, I don't choose to participate in your playground games.

IMO, the public school system is pretty much all that holds together the US in terms of national identity.

Does that include these?

Children of Illegals in Public Schools

4,228,738

Cost of Illegals in K-12 Since 1996

$13,671,267,753

source

My post was not about illegal immigration; it was a response to Prince's post. However, any immigrant that grows up in the American school system is likely to develop an American identity, even if they hold onto another one as well. I think that's very useful to us as a nation, and really has zero to do with legal status.

thought your hubby got all bent about people calling Americans "Americans".....doesn't that count for American schools too?

[Don_Joy's Prince 0]

I have a HUGE problem with illegals saying there are 'American'. And I bet I'm not alone.

I'm sure you're not, and I'm sure we all know how you feel about "illegals" by now. However, someone that grows up in the U.S., attending public school, is probably going to develop an affinity for the U.S. Whether you want those people here or not (and yes, we know you want them all sent home asap), don't you think it's better that they *like* America and feel a loyalty to it than not?

Why? They have no respect for it in the first place!!! I suppose sending millions of illegally earned $$ to Mexico shows their 'loyalty' to the uSA?

PS: We're all aware of how you feel about them too, no need to finger point.

Solving illegal immigration is an easy fix if we deny them employment with laws that already exist on the books they will self deport. If you can't feed your family here you will leave. We have seen it start already. This will also relieve some of the pressure on the school system. But it will not fix the public school systems problem.

[Alex+R 0]

thought you & your hubby got all bent about people calling Americans "Americans".....doesn't that count for American schools too?

Nope, just hubby.

Dev, just because I don't want to play your games doesn't mean I have any up my own sleeve. I find your characterizing 5 year olds enrolling in American kindergarten as having no respect for the US to be kind of hilarious. I really don't think that's what they're concerned about at that age. I don't understand why you need to make every conversation adversarial, uncivil and rude. But I can't stop you from doing it.

[Alt name 1]

From one of the clever young designers in the office, who was bored this morning

New_Image.BMP

[no name 1]

thought you & your hubby got all bent about people calling Americans "Americans".....doesn't that count for American schools too?

Nope, just hubby.

Dev, just because I don't want to play your games doesn't mean I have any up my own sleeve. I find your characterizing 5 year olds enrolling in American kindergarten as having no respect for the US to be kind of hilarious. I really don't think that's what they're concerned about at that age. I don't understand why you need to make every conversation adversarial, uncivil and rude. But I can't stop you from doing it.

Alex, might I remind you (since the 4 years you've been out of HS seem to have made you forget) - public school goes from k-12. That goes up to 18-19. They are fully aware if they are legal or illegal by then.