resilient

Well, the reason I asked is because I got the impression that you did NOT have sufficient evidence from after the marriage... in that case, lawyers say what is important is to prove the good faith at the time of marriage. Even the waiver box in the application says that. "Married in good faith..."

Now, if you do have evidence of the bona fide marriage in addition to your short dating period material, of course it's great. I just had a legal aid lawyer tell me that I can submit the same evidence from the AOS interview and I should be fine. And that if I had more from the marriage time, that's even better.

Is the OP getting divorced and will apply for a waiver? If so, I was advised that what does matter is MOSTLY the bonafide nature at THE TIME OF MARRIAGE. Not if the marriage worked out or anything like that. So, proof of what happened after marriage is good, but is not the most important thing. And what happened before the marriage (including dating, etc.) becomes super important, as you have to prove you married in good faith.

Yes I am seeking waiver due to divorce. I have been doing some research on this topic and it seems like good intent and faith at the time of marriage can be proved by what happened during the marriage. Joint financial assets, insurances, leases, property show good faith marriage. If some one gets married just for immigration prupose, they would keep the financial assets/property seperate.

If you can't help the OP and ANSWER the question, why bother replying nonsense?

otr, I am also interested in what should go in the affidavits. Hope someone answers.

Hi,

I'm entering the 90 days time frame today and about to file to remove my condition GC by myself. I entered the country by K-1 in July2007 and got the conditional GC in Mar2008. We did everything right but unfortunately our marriage didn't work out and the divorce ended in May2009. I've been living in the marriage address and have changed all the joint names on our bills and lease to my name only since Jan 2009. Now I'm preparing all the documents which I have pretty much everything in joint names up until Jan 2009 - a year lease, joint taxes for 2 years, joint bank account, joint health insurance policy, con-ed bills, timewarner bills, and some holiday cards from friends/family.....

Since it's going to be a special case because I divorced, I'm also preparing affidavits for people which are my landlady(of the apt we were living together for a year and I'm living here now), a friend who was a witness at our wedding at city hall, and another friend of mine who hung out with both of us from time to time. Question is:

Anyone knows if these affidavits are enough and helpful to prove my bona-fide marriage besides those joint-account paper evidences that I have only for a year? And what kind of content they should say in the affidavits besides their required information?

Another question: Should I submit the lease and bills after Jan2009 until May2009 (last date in our divorce paper) which are in my name only but in the same address as marriage address? Do they care about evidence in my name only after our divorce?

Is anyone in the same situation as me?

Any suggestions would be very helpful and appreciated...Thank you!

Naomi

You should have filed to remove conditions as soon as your divorce was final.

Submit everything you have showing you guys had lived together.

Yes, I know, but I already missed that so I'm filing in the 90 days window instead. Now I want to know more about the content of the affidavits and if they would be helpful or not, and the evidence after the divorce in my name, if they are necessary to be filed?

" a year lease, joint taxes for 2 years, joint bank account, joint health insurance policy, con-ed bills, timewarner bills, and some holiday cards from friends/family.....

Looks like you have plenty of evidence you guys married "with good faith". Get some affidavits also.

More ammo the better.

I imagine you are aware you will have to wait 5 years from date of your GC [90 days prior] to apply for US C now.

One thing at a time tho.

Is the OP getting divorced and will apply for a waiver? If so, I was advised that what does matter is MOSTLY the bonafide nature at THE TIME OF MARRIAGE. Not if the marriage worked out or anything like that. So, proof of what happened after marriage is good, but is not the most important thing. And what happened before the marriage (including dating, etc.) becomes super important, as you have to prove you married in good faith.

congrats!

yes, could you please go into more details about what was requested and what did you send before.

What did you sent, what was requested?

Hi There. I really need some advice from everyone. Here is my situation. I married my US love this year, but after a couple of months, found out he had been cheating the entire time. So I left him - I had no choice! I would not want to stay with a cheater.

I received my GC with conditions prior to seperating. But now, im faced with the difficult task as to what to do when it comes time to submit my papers to remove the conditions.

Hubby and I are not legally seperated yet. Right now we are just living apart doing our own thing (well mind you..he has vandalised my car and sent my numerous abusive txt msgs to me AND he is also going around telling everyone i married him for papers which is totally not true!!!!!). I just found out he has left the state as well and moved north.

So my question is, if i apply for a divorce - will this be detriment to me? Will they deny me my GC without conditions? Seeing as my husband commited adultery and left me for other women? We married for love, everything is genuine with regards to us being a couple at the time we got married.

What would happen if i applied for divorce and then got married to another American (assuming i fall in love again) prior to submitting my papers for removal of confitions?

Or is it in my best interest to try and patch things up with this a**hole and have him come with me to the interview to remove my conditions. (do we actually need to interview ??)

Has anyone been through this situation? I really need some help. Thanks!

"What would happen if i applied for divorce and then got married to another American (assuming i fall in love again) prior to submitting my papers for removal of confitions?"

Don't even think about it until you have your GC.

Thanks Dakine. Yeah that was just a hypothetical. I dont think i'll be marrying so soon again. After the break down of this marriage i think its time to reflect (and to choose carefully!!)

ERRRR... Why is that we can't even think about it (finding someone new)? In my age, I do /should want to find a new person as soon as possible so I can still have kids... What's the problem with finding someone new between the separation and getting the permanent GC? Meaning, not TO GET a GC, but to have a new love in life and a future with someone? I don't see any problem with that. Does someone? And why?

thanks!

do you know if they asked for anything else from her or if she had another interview or anything like that?

Birdlover got approved in September.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...98922&st=15

Hi Nubby, sorry to hear your story and hope you're doing well in spite of all.

I am also separating (for different causes than you), so I went to a Legal Aid lawyer and she told me that the MOST important thing is to prove that you ENTERED the marriage in good faith. Basically, showing what you had during your AOS interview (things that prove you entered the marriage in good faith) plus of course stuff from the joint life after marriage if you have it (hopefully you do). She said that it doesn't really matter who is applying for divorce as long as it is not detrimental to you of course (saying that you married for immigration purposes only, etc.) But I am not 100% sure about this last part, I was not really convinced that it makes no difference who applies for the divorce.

In my case, he abandoned me (love was still there but we had other issues), but I don't want to file on grounds of abandonment so we are signing a separation first and waiting 1 year to divorce - with no grounds.

But I have this feeling in the back of my mind that of course they are going to ask all the details about it, who asked for divorce etc... oh man, having to go through it and also talk about it to complete strangers (IOs)... no one deserves it in life.

Same here. Separation soon :[

Thanks Nubby for reviving this thread, VERY useful for people in our situation. Unfortunately birdlover last signed on two months ago...

I hope her case went well and that she comes back to tell us some good news...

hi birdlover2008 - how is everything going now? have you heard anything from USCIS? did you get approved for your 10-year GC?

I am just about to head into the whole "seperation & divorce" thing and your posting has been really helpful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would love to hear more updates from you!

Thanks!

thank you zila for the inspiring post. I am in the same boat and sometimes it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

camifree, good luck with everything.

Cami, I am so glad you decided to say and try some more. The fact of the matter is that every immigrant feels at one pot exactly how you felt. I encourage you to be strong and keep your eyes to the future. A country doesn't make a person happy but the friends they make and the inner strength you have to pass every obstacle. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. After some time passes you will come out of this ugly faze so much more powerful and confident and mature. Obstacles make or break a person. The fact that you decided to stay and try some more brings much respect from my part. I too am alone here and been through very rough times, but I decided to stay and not give up, maybe something will change for the better. 6 years have passed since i've been here and now I could not imagine leaving my country(this country). I love everything about it, including the people here though at the beginning seemed so different than me. It is hard to make friends but after you leave you realize that in spite of what you thought to be just acquaintances they were actually friends of yours that cared about you more than they let to show.

Girl, don't give up, you started one road, keep going further and fight your destiny because it will come a day when you will wake up and say: God, I feel good, i'm so glad i staid! I am so happy i live in this country and so happy to see how many doors have opened up for me. I promise you that dark won't stay dark forever! Don't make decisions when you're down, make them when you're ok just so that you are lucid about your options and future.

If you need friends I am in Chicago. I am alone and i am an ex-immigrant, now an American Citizen. Please contact me and I will be there for you and help you through this as much as I can. I know what it's like to be in your shoes right now. But you will see things will be better, just be confident and look ahead and look up, no matter how dark it is now around you, there is sunshine if you dare to hope!

You'll be in my praiers

Ziia

So sad to hear your story. But I understand, as I am in the same situation now. For now I am still willing to wait until citizenship though.

If I were in your shoes, I would sublet my apartment and go home for a month or two to see how I feel before moving. You could regret it later.

Anyway, regarding your question, if you really decide to move, put ads on Craigslist - you can sell anything there!

Hope you find what is best for you.

Thanks a lot for your answer, rika. Yes, it seems it will be hard to get answers for the agreement here. I am not working now, so I might go to a Legal Aid consultation soon. It seems most of you waiver people divorced very quickly. Is it because you all live around California? (I mean, easier to divorce). Do you apply for a waiver at CSC if you are from CA area? Maybe it would be better to try and divorce instead of waiting the one year separation... but then I would have to accuse him of abandonment. Didn't want to go that avenue...

there are very few people who filed I-751 with a waiver. And not all of them obsessively hang around

Separation agreement is not something routinely done, so I hope you find help here, but it is not likely.

Can you ask a lawyer to look at it? Are you happy with what's in it? You could start your own topic and ask for VJ unprofessional advice

(of course crop out all the personal info - names, addresses, account numbers etc)

Here is the direct link for the original Memorandum at the USCIS page for the file:

"I-751 Filed Prior to Termination of Marriage" (155KB PDF)

Donald Neufeld, Acting Associate Director, Domestic Operations Directorate

04/03/2009

General Memorandum page (go down to April 2009, that's where the file was added):

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...0000ecd190aRCRD

Memorandum by Subject > Conditional Residence - we should all bookmark this one to check for news regularly!

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...0004718190aRCRD

Memorandm PDF:

http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments...tion_3apr09.pdf

Thanks Mr. Neufeld, whoever you are

I was browsing USCIS site for my case and I remembered I read your post earlier this evening.

Look what I found on their memorandum page, it MIGHT help you somehow, as it seems to be your case exactly!

http://www.uscis.gov/memoranda

October, 2009

Adjudication of Form I-751, Petition to Remove Conditions on Residence Where the CPR Has a Final Order of Removal, Is in Removal Proceedings, or Has Filed an Unexcused Untimely Petition or Multiple Petitions ( PDF)

Additions to Adjudicator's Field Manual, Chapter 25.1(g)(6) and 25.1(h)(4) and Appendix XXXX (AFM Update AD09-48) Donald Neufeld, Acting Associate Director, Domestic Operations 10/09/2009

10/09/2009

Hope this helps... directly from the them!

thanks a lot justashooter.

exactly... I would like to know what kind of language COULD BE unfavourable in a separation agreement. I am not sure if one can state incompatibility, as this is not a ground in NY. From the link I posted, it seems that you don't need an actual reason for separating in the agreement, but I am not sure...

I am really concerned about what the immigration officer will look for in this agreement when I apply for the RoC Waiver. I did not see answers while researching here on VJ.

I do have all our joint docs and bills from this 1 year marriage - we would always put it in a organizer, and I have it with me. I also have all the papers we used on our AOS interview.

I said we are in "good terms" as we are not fighting, but we actually stopped talking. It still hurts when I see him or talk with him... so it's healthier to break the contact, I guess. I am the one who seems to be more tormented by the separation, and susceptible to do crazy things, hehe. He keeps it cool, at least on the outside. But he always been like this. Who knows what he is really feeling inside.

But of course, I won't do crazy things I am trying to be a decent person besides all the hurt.

He is quite younger than me. I understand why his family didn't want him married, although I don't agree with them; I also understand that he is just too young to stand by me in this whole situation. Also, being so young, he is not in a phase that he wants to have children, and I really want to and should while I still can. Because of his family pressure, he changed completely and showed a side of him I never seen before. Anyway, I see now that the relationship was destined not to work in the long run, but when you're in love, you are hopeful that all will work out because of the love you have for each other... so naive!

In the back of my mind I keep thinking that his control freak mom might do something to harm my chances of staying here, but, what can I do beside wait to see how this whole thing goes... hope all will end well.

i'm sorry to hear you are having this difficulty. take the advise of the legal aide you can arrange.

i see no downside to signing a sep agreement if it is a required part of a quick divorce. the only concern you might have is in regard to any language that indicates reason for divorce that could be seen as unfavourable. if the reason for divorce is stated as incompatibility, it should not affect your 751 in a negative way.

be sure to get copies of all documents that might be useful in your future and store them in a safe place. you two might be on good terms now, but seperation and divorce have a way of changing peoples perspective within the first few months of seperation. some people do strange things once they begin to lose the bond they have while living together. they can enhance their perception of forgotten ills and use this enhanced perception as basis for actions they would not consider before seperating.

if your partner is divorcing you because of family pressure he must not have that strong of a character to begin with, so will be easily swayed by others in the coming months. watch your siz, and continue to be honorable in your communications with this guy. he might turn out to be the worst enemy you have, or the best friend you have. it's too early to tell.

Hi all.

So, it looks like I am going to be a waiver applicant in 1 year from now. I am in the process of signing a separation agreement so we can get divorced in 1 year. (NY state, it is better this way)

Anyway, my question is: is there a discussion topic for waiver people here? I have questions regarding the separation agreement I am about to sign, but it doesn't seem like people in the "Major changes" subforum know how to answer my questions.

Please let me know... good luck with your applications and thanks!

Hi there,

You should read a bit more the Guides here to get the whole process... I was lost in the beginning as well, so I had to read a lot on VJ and google a lot too to understand the main guidelines. You should too.

As I was in the same case as yours (H1 before marrying), I can tell you that most certainly your case will NOT be transferred to CSC. Cases transferred there are usually for people who won't have an interview because they had a fiancee interview in their country of origin before coming to the US.

You will most certainly be invited for an interview in your local office (my interview was 3 months after my application for AOS) and your wife will have to go with you and attest that the marriage is real and not broken, answer questions about the relationship from the Immigration Officer, etc. As she seems to want out of the marriage, it seems like she won't agree to go with you to the interview as the marriage is ending.

Anyway, good luck, and remember - you have to be informed to make good decisions. Read a lot about the process in the guidelines!

in most states, a marriage that is not consumated is void, in a legal sense.

if your spouse intends to sit in an interview and say that you have a continuing married relationship, she will be lying, especially so in that you are no longer living together(?). you are not qualified to adjust status by interview.

if your case has been moved to CSC, you will likely be approved without interview. if it is anywhere else, you will need to interview.

Thank you so much for the prompt response.

How do I know if my case has been moved to CSC or not?

One more thing is - he was the one who abandoned me (because of his family... but that's another story), so I don't see in which ground HE could file for divorce directly. I could do it, based on his abandonment, but I don't think it's a good idea for the foreigner to be the one applying for it... also, I don't really want to.

FYI:

What are the grounds for divorce?

"Grounds" are legally acceptable reasons for a divorce. In New York, there are divorces after separation, and fault-based divorces. There is no such thing is NY as "irreconcilable differences."

Divorce after separation - In a divorce after separation, you do not have to have one of the fault-based grounds, or reasons, for the divorce that are listed below. To file for divorce, you and your husband must either have a separation agreement or a court ordered-judicial separation. You also must live separate and apart for one year after the agreement or judicial order before you can be divorced. To understand what needs to be in a separation agreement in order for it to be considered a ground for divorce, it is best to consult a lawyer.

Fault-based – With a fault-based divorce, you do not have to be separated before filing for the divorce. In New York, you can file for a fault-based divorce for any of these reasons:

- Cruel and Inhuman Treatment – This includes physical, verbal or emotional abuse that endangers your physical or mental well being to the point that it is "unsafe or improper" for you to live with the abuser. The judge will require more than that you simply did not get along with one another. The judge will be looking for specific instances of cruelty that occurred in the last five years.

- Abandonment – To file for divorce based on abandonment, your spouse must have abandoned you for a period of one or more years. Specific examples of abandonment by your spouse include a physical move from the home or locking you out of the home. Also, if your spouse has refused to engage in sexual relations with you for at least one year, this can also qualify as abandonment and is known as "constructive abandonment."

- Three Consecutive Years Imprisonment - This is a ground for divorce if your spouse has been in jail for three or more years in a row beginning after your marriage. Once your spouse has been in jail for three years in a row, you can file for divorce:

while your spouse is still in jail

up to five years after s/he is released.

- Adultery – You must be able to show that your spouse committed adultery during the marriage. This is usually hard to prove in court, since you need evidence from a third party - someone besides you or your spouse.*

(yes, it's terrible to get a divorce in NY!) =(

Hi all, thanks for the answers.

First of all, I'm a female, and my ex husband is the USC. I live in NY state. To get a divorce in my state, without accusing each other of all these horrible things that would grant us the decree here, the best way is to have a legal separation agreement signed, wait 1 year and then ask for a divorce. (yeah, it sucks, but...) We just don't want to accuse each other of anything and have it in papers, etc.

I might not have money - but his family does, but that doesn't matter as I don't want any of it. We signed a prenup before the marriage anyway. I married him for love and I'm really sad it didn't work out. We are in good terms in spite of everything. So, the signing of the agreement will be for the solely purpose of getting a divorce in 1 year from now - that's the best way we found to do it in my state.

I am not super concerned time-wise, as I will be able to ask for divorce exactly when the window for RoC starts, but I hear uncontested divorces don't take that long in NY state... or do they? would it take more than 2 months?

But my original question is: are there things that should NOT be in this agreement, regarding the future Removal of Conditions?

i.e. - who's initiating the separation or divorce, etc?; division of the few assets of the short marriage; CAUSE of the separation? stuff like that

I mean, I never did this before, I didn't look at the document yet 'cause I don't want to ruin my weekend, but, I am asking if someone has been through this and knows what SHOULD NOT be in the agreement.

Thanks.

Please keep in mind that it is not only about the USC hurt. We foreigners also hurt.

Hi, it seems as you had problems with a foreigner. I had problems with my USC. So, let me tell you that, even though our problems seem to be the opposite, I feel the same things you mentioned in your post: "feelings of

bitterness, personal embarrassment, anger, distraught, deception, betrayal, being used, being abused, exploited, frustrated, and just down right p1ssed off at yourself for not recognizing bullsh1t for what it is?" also, I feel like my dreams have been crushed... and not a lot of hope in life.

Do you feel there was/is a lesson to learn from your situational demise; and if so, what did YOU learn?

Well, I am still hurting and trying to find out if there's something I can learn from it all, but so far, I just feel like I was dumb and let my heart overcome my brain.

What did YOU do to heal? / Who assisted you/was there for you? In the first month, I was in bed and crying all the time. Talked with my family that's spread out all over the world on skype. Two members of my family were there for me and I thank god for them. Friends are not that helpful in these situations... they reach a point where they can't hear you anymore mumbling the same things over and over again. Then I decided I couldn't let myself stay like that and decided, for the first time in life, to seek professional therapy. I was sure I was NOT depressed, and that I had reasons to be in the gutter like I was. But, the therapist insisted I take antidepressants and so I did. It took some time, but it did help in the end. Also, obviously, venting with my therapist and trying to find out why it didn't work out helped a great deal.

How are you doing now? better. This week was the first week I felt really better. But still, the scars are there and are not healed completely.

Did YOU honor your "emotional" self? not sure what you mean by that. If you are asking if I did let my emotions flow, yes, I did. I did not pretend I was not hurting.

After honoring your emotions, have you been liberated enough not to classify all "insert nationalities/countries here" as scammers/users or whathaveyous? I don't think about it this way. Well, I am the foreigner here, and I COULD think all Americans are nuts/have psychological problems, based on my experience (I lived here before getting married and also had one previous unpleasant experience before) but of course it's a stretch to classify a whole nation based on your experience with a couple of people.

Also, are you dating again and if so, is your new love home-grown? Did not have the guts yet. I am still not over it all. But intend to do it very soon. I prefer do date someone local, as it is easier to assimilate this way.

And last but not least, are you still open to going through another visajourney? Well, I AM in a VJ still... an unsuccessful one, but I am, and will still be in one for some years to come.

Good luck to you on your healing. Good luck to all of us. Please keep in mind that it is not only about the USC hurt. We foreigners also hurt.

Thanks Tracy, most helpful post ever for I-751 Waiver applicants.

I have a warning though... do not ever use this lawyer's services - Mr. Lee, in NY. A few years back, he was supposed to file for a work visa in name of the company that hired me, and procrastinated waiting for the company to send him a check... and in spite of me asking what was going on, he didn't let me know about this "detail". Then the cap for the visas was completed for that year.

This man basically made me waste 1 year+ of my life. Well, at least now he posted something helpful. But I wouldn't trust his services.

Been meaning to bring up this article in this forum - interesting information about just this situation.

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2009,0924-lee.shtm

ETA quote from the article (which cites a USCIS memorandum), "The importance of the memorandum is to allow conditional permanent residents who are only separated or in divorce or annulment proceedings to timely file for a waiver based upon a bonafide yet terminated marriage by themselves without having to ask the U.S. citizen spouse to sign a joint petition, and to later provide evidence of final marriage termination upon receipt of a request for evidence from U.S.C.I.S. It also gives immigration service officers the authority to amend the basis of I-751 filing rather than making conditional permanent residents refile and pay new fees for another I-751. These are welcome changes."

Hello,

I've been married for 1 year this week, and just received today a Separation Agreement from my ex.

I will try to take it to a Legal Aid clinic for a free legal consultation (I am not working and can't afford an attorney right now)

My main question is: What kind of things should not be in a Separation Agreement? Things that can give me problems later when applying for a I-751 waiver.

FYI, we agreed to do it all in a peaceful way... we are not intending to blame each other and the such. But I haven't had the guts to read what his lawyer put in the agreement yet.

Also, what are my chances of being approved in the I-751 Waiver? I took quite a lot of evidence to the AOS interview and all was fine then. And now I also have a co-signed lease to add to it.

Does the timeline of when we started to have problems and when we stopped living together matters that much, as long as we married in good faith?

Unfaithful wives are sorted out in a different manner where i come from. But here, the law of the land is such that its best you walk away. Her youth will fade away in a few years and all these boyfriends WILL walk away. And soon she will realize she is all alone in a crowd. Be Happy! Best of Luck.

How can someone be so misogynist, cruel and disgusting in just a few phrases?

Thanks God I am not married to a muslim man.