allousa

I wonder how much of the hard times people have are really due to the normal first few years of marriage and getting to know each other and not so much due to the visa process?

Bridget,

I would agree with you to a certain extent that a newly married couple have an adjustment status of their own disregarding cultural/religious experiences. But I have seen EXACTLY what has been posted before here on VJ about how MENA men can change once children enter the equation and I mean specifically their OWN children, not step-children, happen in MY OWN MARRIAGE. I maintain several friendships outside of VJ with some of the MENA chickies and they've had such similar experiences to my own. Mostly problems resulting from differences b/w religion or culture.

So from my deductive reasoning, it's more prevalant than to just be normal marriage differences. Just sayin'.

I'm still having a hard time why some people are taking this SO personal because I don't believe I have pointed to anyone in particular and said "Your marriage is doomed!". I know for myself that I am coming forth with my experiences in trying to help some of these VJers NOT have a doomed marriage, but instead find away to deal with it. I know for Hicham and I it has taken ALOT of communication....ALOT, ALOT, ALOT....and we are still working on trying to communicate better going on 8 years of being married! I don't think one person should make all of the compromises in the relationship either because I believe that will lead to resentment.

Marriage is hard work....PERIOD!

You tell people how miserable you are, they don't like it... you tell them how happy you are, they don't like it It can't all be about the scams and users. I think it's good to tell people when you have a good experience with your spouse, so that they don't feel like they're headed for doom. My post was in response to a few people that seemed to find a quick and easy adjustment to be unusual. As for keeping personal things off VJ, I said that to the OP because she felt she was insulted and judged for something personal she shared (and I agree, she was attacked for that). Oh well, I wish the OP the best.

BECAUSE a quick and easy adjustment IS unusual. As long as I've been on VJ, I can think of only TWO people whose "journeys" that I know about have had a quick and easy adjustment. I think several of us that have been here a while have quite a few horror stories and we didn't post all of that. We were just being truthful about our experiences.

I have to say that if my kid was making that much noise or crying for that long, we would have definitely left the store. I do understand that kids have tantrums and it can be hard to control them. Been there...done that!!!! I am a little surprised that the guy was able to get so close to the child, know what I mean? I would certainly be guarded already if someone were approaching my child and wouldn't even let them get that close.

IF they were able to get close enough to touch my child.....hold my purse an earrings because I would be whipping some serious AZZ! I mean start a collection for my bail, because I would gladly take a seat in the squad car after "takin' care of bizness"!

I'm NOT a violent person....but mess with my cubs....you're gonna get MOMMA LION!!!!

Seriously, Amal....I thought you were a celebrity all along!! Dang!!!!

I guess I'm considered on "old-timer" and I think most here know I try and steer clear of drama...didn't always at first when I came on here.

I can certainly appreciate the OP's viewpoints and comments as I did feel that way when I first came here. But now that I'm on the other side of the fence, I can see the "old-timers" viewpoints as well. I really think it's the prespective of your "journey" and where you are at in it. I know that in the beginning, I felt hopeless and wanted some answers and anything that might give me strength to hold on a little longer.

Our journey was a little different in that my husband and I had a life here in the States and suddenly found out he could NOT come back to the States when he went to visit his mother because of our attorney not knowing what he was doing. We were separated for 4 years and had to start all over after having already been through a 1 1/2 of immigration processing already! In the 4 years that my husband was in Morocco, I lost my father to liver cancer and gave birth to our son, each one being the most life-altering moment, and I had to do it without my husband. As horribly painful as those moments were, I don't propose that my pain is more than others, because what we each go through is UNIQUE to us. I can't say that I feel more than you and vice versa.

I can understand that it might appear as though there is a "clique" because I thought that in the beginning as well. But what I've come to realize is that many of us here have "walked" with each other through some really difficult times and it is THOSE times that bond you with people. A couple of these ladies have become like "sisters from another mister" to me and I know that I will keep in touch with them long after my time on VJ fades. After a while, you do find those that you can trust and those that you want to reach out to.

I do think it is wise to keep most of your personal life, just that.....PERSONAL. Message boards are public forums and open to ANYONE. You have to know that you do open yourself up to comments from people that might not understand your situation or unfortunately, care about your situation. It's sad but true.

From time to time, I do try and offer advice since I have walked this journey for a long time already (7 years and still counting). This past week, I was handslapped for being honest about what the adjustment status is like. I KNOW that when you are first starting out, you don't want to know that going through getting your SO over here is the EASY part, but the truth of the matter is......THAT'S THE TRUTH! I know way, way, way, way to many people that have gone through this to be able to say that it's true! Is it going to happen to everyone....there are a few that come through the adjustment process easily and with little discomfort and argument.

I do believe it's all a matter of where you are in the process and how you look at it. Please know that from the bottom of my heart, I wish all of the people going through this process....hope and happiness!

Judy, so sorry for your loss. My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family.

Judy, so sorry for your loss. My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family.

- I have to wait until sundown for my ice cream.....

Anyway, it's been interesting reading what everyone has to say. What I try to do (and am not always completely successful - I'm far from perfect ) is read what everyone has to say, realize that we all have our own experiences and points of view, and not get upset (that's the hard part) about anything. It's difficult sometimes, though, because I DO feel defensive at times - like when I went to a family event recently and was more or less shunned by a few relatives I used to be close to (in my pre-"married to an Arab" days). Face it, NO relationship is perfect, but when we have the inevitable problems, we feel like 'everyone' is going to say it's because of the mixed marriage. I love my husband, and I think he's really wonderful. Neither of us is perfect, though, and we have our times - one was Saturday night/early Sunday, actually. I was in tears, but felt I couldn't call anyone to talk, though, because if whoever I called even suggested it was because of who he was, that would really get my dander up! Definitely not what I needed.

Anyway, the reason I like to read posts from others though, is that as well as we've managed to cope, it can be SO helpful to get insight from others. Some of you might have read my posts in the past. One thing I wish I had known in the past was how to handle my husband's moods. We had a few really horrible fights last year until I figured out to leave him alone and give him his space. Yeah, I know that is probably true of all or most men (not just MENA), but I wasn't expecting the "I made a mistake marrying you, I should go back home and divorce you" type of statements. It was soooooooo wonderful when I read that many MENA men (no, not saying "all") go through that phase, but that it (at least usually) passes. It still really sucked at the time, but it ended after a few weeks. Somehow it helps to know that I'm not the only one who dealt with that. I also wish someone had warned me about the treatment we got at the POE when he first arrived.

The problem with all of this information is that it sometimes gets difficult to keep from getting paranoid and overly sensitive! I think that's why some of us get really angry and defensive when we hear anyone say anything bad about even one MENA man. It's hard enough to hear it from people we realize "don't know any better" (like my idiot relatives, or even well meaning but clueless friends), but when it comes from within the group (where we sometimes ONLY want to feel safe, supported, and encouraged), sometimes it's too hard to deal with. I try (again, not always successful) to keep in mind that some of us are hurting, some of us are being protective and not wanting others to get hurt, and some of us are (at least at that moment, and often due to outside-of-the-relationship reasons) very sensitive to any type of criticism and feel like we're being attacked. When we're feeling vulnerable for whatever reason (just had a fight, having trouble understanding the SO, recently got insulted by a rude or clueless person, whatever), it's very easy to mistake "please be careful" for "your relationship is automatically doomed because you married a MENA man". And also, everyone runs into finding out at least once in a while that what was in their minds wasn't exactly matched to how it was interpreted by others.

So, for what it's worth, I (with all the best intentions) suggest that we all listen to what everyone has to say, realize that some of what you hear could be something to look out for - but not expect all of the 'bad' stuff to happen to you. The trick is to figure out what to totally ignore and what to remember and use in a good way to avoid or at least solve problems. Add in the difficulties we all face: 1 - just being in a relationship; 2 - adjusting to a new and different person/culture; 3 - dealing with all the naysayers on the outside who give their unwanted and rude opinions - and there's going to be some hurt feelings. If I wasn't so human, I'd just not read posts when I feel a little emotionally vulnerable. Unfortunately, that's often when I turn to VJ for advice or just as my form of escape (since I don't really have other vices to resort to, like drinking or whatever - I'm a procrastinator/avoider).

We'll all have to forgive each other for any stepping on toes. I apologize if I did or will upset anyone - not my intent. I guess growing up in the family I did, and then dealing with a total jerk in a horrible 15 year marriage, has really developed my desire to smooth things over whenever possible.

I wish all of you peace, love, and happiness - and a smooth journey!

venusfire

It never is easy to expose yourself to open criticism and comments. I appreciate your comments and hope that others do as well.

Ice cream sounds good so I'll take pistachio. However, I'm gonna need a kettle cooked chips chaser with that.

Yeah...well...I'm DEFINITELY going to need at LEAST A 16oz coca-cola to wash it all down with....

............................BURP!

<handing out extra spoons>

Good idea Jen!

KH, I've agreed with much of what you said so far, but I do have to disagree about the part of MENA men not being involved as fathers. I have to say that Hicham is VERY HANDS on with our son. He's very involved in his sports and we both take time with him at night when reading and doing bedtime stuff. I am so very proud of my husband when it comes to him being a father.

I will conceed that there is a common thread that runs through alot of relationships, mostly cultural issues that so many of us have or will face. But these are still individual relationships and I know that I don't intend to say they are all the same. I can understand how some of what we are saying can give you pause or worry, but I know that since I came here and while I was going through the visa process, I've learned alot that has actually helped me communicate better with Hicham. Like I said earlier, we DO have issues with our son when it comes to religion that surprised me, but because of some of the things that I have read here, it DOES help me to understand where he is coming from.

NOW, if I could find a site for him to join so he could get better intel on ME.....we'd be getting some where!!!!

my husband was put in AP for the next year and a half....

how come they put him on AP???? i hurd that they give you your 2nd appointement withing 30 days after the second one????and why???

another thing,isnt the backlog is for only cdj not for the other consulats or embassies????.

thanks for your time

They put him in AP because they could. I do believe that is pretty standard across the board, now the wait times...those are not standard and are all across the board. What I learned from our experience is that waiver processing doesn't follow the same rules as other types of cases. The only part of the process that WAS predictable was the estimation of time that Rome gave for processing his file once it got there.

Dang, hes in for a long journey!

We were already at a year and a half dealing with USCIS when Hicham got stuck in Morocco. Tack on the 4 years of going through the waiver process. And then another 6-8 months when he got home because they did not have his name correct on his greencard and it took us that long to get it fixed!!!!!!!

gosh you guys have been through alot. I have so much respect for couples who go through such trials and stay together and make it work

Thanks SO much. I received TONS of support from my MENA VJ family here through so much of it. I took a trip over to the waiver section today for a look see because I haven't been over there in so long. I happened to see a couple of people suggest www.immigrate2us.com and I'm pretty sure THAT was the website I was thinking of that was so helpful but confused it with VJ's waiver forum.

Hicham and I have been through SO MUCH and it's been very difficult for us at times...the process...the separation...the adjustment when he got back here. We are still a work in progress, but we are at the 9 year mark and still hanging in there. Despite the difficulties, Hicham IS a good man.....and he is the BEST father to our son.

Dang, hes in for a long journey!

We were already at a year and a half dealing with USCIS when Hicham got stuck in Morocco. Tack on the 4 years of going through the waiver process. And then another 6-8 months when he got home because they did not have his name correct on his greencard and it took us that long to get it fixed!!!!!!!

I was wondering, if he got deported 7 yrs ago with a 10 yr ban, then arent you banned for 3 more years from here???

Thats why people file waivers...they are "waiving" the ban

yah but from what he wrote, it looked like he didnt file the waiver yet and thats hes waiting on a first interview???

ya. you file the spousal visa, go thru the whole process of that and then just get a "you arent eligible for the visa" response at your interview...then come the waviers.

Yeah...we had to start the entire process all over. It was heartbreaking.

jpaula....HOW ARE YOU??????? Have not talked to you in such a long time! Hope all is well with you.

It's been quite sometime since I have been on the Waiver Forum. I just know that it was helpful at the time I was going through it....mostly because of advice I got from jpaula!!!

I didn't really find alot of people going through what we were at the time.

Were you forcefully deported?

My husband and I went through the I-601 and I-212 process. Here is some background:

My husband was here on a student visa when we met. We got married after 11 months. We were in the process of filing paperwork HERE in the states, but ran into a lot of difficulty because my husband is Palestinian and all of his paperwork is processed as such EVEN THOUGH he was born in Morocco. While our marriage was approved from our interview, we were still waiting for it to be processed when my husband's mother became very, very ill. He flew home to see her. EVEN THOUGH we were in process, my husband's student visa had expired while he was still here and he was considered out of status and USCIS considered him to have voluntarily deported himself. So he was not able to re-enter the country. We were told that we would have to file an I-601 waiver and the I-212.

I'm going to be brutally honest with you. This was a TOUGH, TOUGH, NIGHTMARE PROCESS. It took us over 4 years. I had to refile everything here in the states first through the local office. Then it went on to the NVC. This took no less than a year. It finally was sent to the Consulate in Morocco. After it had been there for about 6 months, he went in for an interview which we thought was going to be for the waiver case. It was a quick interview that didn't go well and then my husband was put in AP for the next year and a half....even though much of this had already been done when we were processing our case in the States before he left. He finally had an interview scheduled in Morocco, but as he was riding the train to his interview...a bomb attack happened a couple of blocks from the Consulate's office. They shut it down completely for two months! Finally, he did receive his interview, that went very well and we were told the file/case then had to be sent to Rome for the waiver processing. It took several months to get there and for them to log it in. Once it was finally reviewed (6-8 months after getting there), it was finally approved and things happened very fast after that. I think he was approved in January and was able to get his passport stamped and stuff my the beginning of March.

I know that we had to have a lawyer because of the difficulty of Hicham's country and the paperwork associated with that. I feel certain because of your past history, you are definitely going to need a lawyer. You are correct that you have to have a REALLY, REALLY good case to get a waiver approved. Rome is tough and they look at everything. I will say that they are pretty good as far as communicating where you are at in the process and responding to emails. I don't know what their backlog is now, but I imagine that it is alot. My husband and I had a very good case according to our lawyer because we had so much evidence to show the validity of our marriage and also because we had a child together, but also because we had alot of photographs with both of our families in them.

VJ has an excellent section on waivers and you can get alot of great advice there.

Good luck!

I'd be interested in hearing from people in a relationship where one person is Muslim and the other is Agnostic or even an Atheist.

Thanks for all the comments everyone.

I would definitely consider myself Agnostic and I am not practicing any religion, my husband however is a practicing Muslim. I don't believe he truly follows Islam as he is supposed to, but observes much of the customs and he does his prayers every day.

So....you can refer to my previous comments if you would like.

Jenn, I will say that regardless of the differences we may have as husband and wife, the birth of our son has taken our relationship to another level. The love we have for each other as we watch the other with our son....it gives me goosebumps to just think about it.

Load up on the ice cream girlie!!!!! Oh and get lots and lots and lots of rest!

Hicham and I wouldn't pass....there are many, many nights that his snoring is so bad that ONE of us ends up going to the spare room to sleep!

It would piss me off to read that things are all sunshine and rainbows when it's not! I do believe that most MENA peeps on here are straight forward and aren't going to lie.

I know several couples of mixed religions that this is probably the major topic of issues within their relationship and it has posed difficulties for them. Yes...these relationships can work IF you have good communication and BOTH are willing to compromise.

Sorry, but I'm not going to rose-color some of these issues when you marry MENA. I'm about being real and I would want people to be real with me.

I think there's a difference between being real and saying it takes a lot of work to make it work, especially when you add children to the mix. And that many couples don't make it - those are facts.

What bothers me is the implication that no matter how great your relationship is and how well you have dealt with these issues thus far, it's likely that in 20 years he's going to become an entirely different person, unrecognizable to you and everything that you've worked for in your relationship is going to be for naught. Speaking honestly, that terrifies me - how can you prepare for that?

? I'm not sure where I've said that in 20 years he's going to be a different person..

My first marriage to an American man ended after just 5 years because he became a different person than who I first met. There aren't ANY promises when it comes to marriage....PERIOD....no matter the culture. I don't know ONE SINGLE COUPLE that have it perfect and easy. Marriage takes work....heck any relationship for that matter takes work. Relationships with your kids/co-workers/friends. People can hurt your feelings and vice versa.

I'm just being honest that since we've had our son...things HAVE changed than what we first talked about. We HAD planned to find a way to combine all holidays, but now Hicham doesn't want our son to know any religious aspect of Christmas or Easter as he thinks that will confuse him. He says he would prefer we raise our son in a Muslim country because here in America he is surrounded by so many things that could confuse him. So it takes alot of communication for us to work through this.

I'm NOT saying that ALL these relationships are doomed...I just know from MY experience it IS hard and we are going on 9 years. Perhaps it's hard because I'm not willing to give into everything that Hicham wants.

Not sure why I'm being hand-slapped for being honest about it.

I'm pretty certain that DHS doesn't run under the same laws as regular law enforcement agencies. After our run-in with them concerning Hicham's family, we quickly found that they have limitless powers. So, I don't think they would need a search warrant.

It would piss me off to read that things are all sunshine and rainbows when it's not! I do believe that most MENA peeps on here are straight forward and aren't going to lie.

I know several couples of mixed religions that this is probably the major topic of issues within their relationship and it has posed difficulties for them. Yes...these relationships can work IF you have good communication and BOTH are willing to compromise.

Sorry, but I'm not going to rose-color some of these issues when you marry MENA. I'm about being real and I would want people to be real with me.

I couldn't agree more with what the others have said.

Hicham is a practicing Muslim, but while I was raised in a Christian church, I really do not subscribe to any organized religion and probably more along the lines of agnostic. So religion isn't a big deal to me.

We talked about the religious issues ENDLESSLY before we got married. I told Hicham that I would NEVER cover and that if he couldn't accept that, then we couldn't move forward. I also had to agree that any children that we have would be raised Muslim, since that was his deal breaker. I agreed.

As much as we talked about it and thought we knew the issues before hand, it has been difficult since the birth of our son. Some of my family are practicing Christians and obviously participate in their religious holidays. It is difficult at times to walk the line between the two. I'm certain that as he gets older, we will continue to try and balance his beliefs with my family. It's hard work.

Make NO MISTAKE that when you add children to the mix....it's tough.

We've been together nine years now...so I hope we are one of the few that make it.

Can't wait to see the new batch of Menaweeds that are getting ready to come along.

I must say that we Mena peeps produce some BEAUTIFUL babies!!!!