m17122018

Good morning everyone. 

So I got admitted into a masters in the US and I was supposed to begin in person classes in August, however embassies are still closed so my school is looking for alternative solutions as I will not be able to join them for fall 2020 (meaning I will have to wait and join them in person for spring 2021 in January, there is no in between). 

The problem is that I got selected for the DV 2021; for some time I did consider getting the DV but in the light of recent political events and given it is a very complicated situation right now, I have been thinking about it and I am reconsidering and going for the safest option (and the option I worked really hard for, I do not want to waste that). 

However, I was told that because I got selected in the DV lottery and my case number is really low, I will have a hard time overcoming the assumption that I will have immigrant intent and adjust my status as soon as I am there... Is there anything I can do about this? Is all hope now lost to get an F1 or is there something I can do to overcome that assumption?

PS: I will not be looking to adjust status, but honestly I worked long and hard to get admitted into this masters, I have been excited about it for quite some time and I even got an Assistantship to cover the costs... It is not an opportunity I would like to pass on. 

Thank you all for your help

32 minutes ago, Quarknase said:

Yup, I assume it will be extended. That was the administrations goal from the beginning and covid helped immense to accomplish this agenda point.

He cannot just extend it forever though, can he?

On 6/9/2020 at 7:10 PM, puda said:

Do you have the link to the FB group? Or any group about DV Lottery winners or focusing on Green Cards applications? I won the DV this year so would be interested to talk to other winners

Congrats!! I won too. Which region?. Also, feel free to message me. I would like to stay in touch with other winners as well

11 minutes ago, geowrian said:

All the major/most common reasons for a refusal check out fine. And having been issue a J-1 and K-1 in the past implies there likely isn't another reason (unless something happened since those, obviously).

Nothing has happened except for the breakup with my fiancé (but I left on day 88 of the 90 I had to either get married or leave the country and I guess it is also a good thing that I followed the rules and did leave the country) and having been admitted to a master's (which should also be a good thing if it were to matter at all). You mentioned "major/most common", any other small or less common or sometimes overlooked reasons I should pay attention to? (I read prostitution, drug use, polygamy... and none of those apply to me at all lol I also have to renew my passport but I can bring my old one, the one I applied with, to the interview with me).

I know I am being irrational, I really do know that. 

10 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

I totally get this. I think we are all never quite ready to believe it until we get that visa in our passports! 

I can't even bring myself to think about that out of fear it won't happen and it'll break my heart. I am such a drama queen about this but at least it is reassuring to feel understood. Thank you!!!!!!! 

11 minutes ago, geowrian said:

Applying for an immigrant visa and having it refused does not make somebody ineligible for an F-1 visa. However the reason for the refusal may be an issue. To be refused an immigrant visa, there needs to be a reason. The vast majority of those reasons would apply to most visas (so it's not that applying for / being refused the visa is the issue - it's just something that would apply to both visa classes).

I do not have any medical problems rather than mild depression three years ago (which mostly caused me to be extremely tired and unmotivated but that is it), no criminal record, have never overstayed my visas or ESTA, got my J1 and K1 approved without a problem and even went back to the states after my K1 (I got stopped at the border, was asked what had happened and then that was it and I enjoyed my vacation in the US), I can prove 125% of poverty guidelines in savings, completed high school and college... 

So there isn't, objectively speaking, any reason why it should be denied. That being said, I still cannot believe I got selected and I cannot even believe I might get to live my dream. So it should not get refused but I am legitimately worried about it for no good reason.

6 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

In this particular situation gonna be a hard assumption to overcome in my opinion, as OP’s case number is likely to be current while he is there on his student visa, so adjustment is the obvious route. You could try argue to a CO that you’d return home to do consular processing but for most DV applicants that is the less logical route.  I agree it’s not a hard “don’t try” but I think the odds are against him. 

Completely agree with you. My number might even become current before I can travel, if I cannot get my visa before August the school has said I have to either defer for spring or take online classes until spring, either way I won't be able to travel before January and there is a huge chance my number will be current before then.

In any way, the master's is two years so most definitely they will think I will try to adjust my status. I also am not comfortable telling them I have no intention to immigrate when I do clearly want to pursue the GC. It would be a whole different thing if I had not been selected I didn't know at the time of the interview; but I have so I don't have plausible deniability and it wouldn't sit right with me.

Again, thank you all so much for your help. This was not an easy decision and I couldn't have made up my mind without your help, resources and information.

12 minutes ago, geowrian said:

More specifically, it means their decisions are not subject to judicial review.

In general, a refusal can be appealed (there have been limited success stories) to show that it does not apply or can be overcome. But a refusal under 214(b) for immigrant intent cannot be appealed as that is solely at the CO's discretion.

Also (I know you're aware but for any others), no single factor is the sole reason for being unable to overcome the presumption of immigrant intent. It's always based upon the CO's understanding of their entire set of circumstances.

 

I don't think this was necessarily implied. They may or may not reach that conclusion (the burden is on you to overcome the presumption that you intent to immigrate via that visa), but it has no impact on the DV application. The only way it would be an issue there is if you made a material misrepresentation in the process.

 

The risk is if you apply for any visa and are subsequently refused, it may (likely would) impact your eligibility for an ESTA (to visit for up to 90 days visa-free).

No, no that it was implied. Sorry for the misunderstanding. It's more that, given how worried I am about it all, given my concerns do have some grounds to them (so like it is not something so far fetched or that it an imaginary problem I have created in my mind because I am nervous) and all the answers I have gotten and information I have gathered, I think the safest thing (specially with the whole covid situation making things worse) is for me to not pursue an F1. 

hat about the other way' Would getting the GC denied (I do not have any reason why it might be, again it is just me being too worried) be a problem for a future F1? 

11 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Ok this passport number being blamed is now demonstrably false - because the passport requirement only came in last year’s entry forms for the first time, and those selected using that basis have literally only just been notified this past Saturday. So she could not have both already been selected and claimed passport number in the entry form as a problem back in February. 
More likely what happened: she was selected the previous year and they suspected that once she was in the US on a student visa, she would adjust status. That is a perfectly valid 214b rejection, for intended misuse of a NIV. (And much more relevant to your specific case to begin with, as we had said back early in the thread...)

 

The doctrine of consular non-reviewability means a consular denial cannot be appealed, by the way.

Okay so most definitely I should not apply for an F1 as they could suspect I would adjust status once in the country as soon as my case number becomes current. That doubt is solved, thanks!! 

3 minutes ago, Paul & Mary said:

Having worked in the F1 space I can tell you that you need be ready to submit the F1 now to be there in August assuming the school is going to be open, etc.  A TA isn't just going to show up a week before classes. I;m sure you would be expected to be there as soon as the 30 day window opens.  The school needs to get the DS-2019 done.  In a non COVID19 environment, consulates would have been ready for the F/M/J rush for the start of an academic year by having more slots open for those.  Now no one knows. If the EOs continue and the consulates reman quickly there should be some slots available.

 

I do agree with @SusieQQQ but as of this moment there are a lot of unknowns but getting the DS-2019 doesn't cost you anything.  Then later you can make the decision about paying the SEVIS and Visa fees.   Plus a denial of a NIV visa won't impact the DV.

I have my I20 but that's it, I could fill my DS160 but I was waiting it out to be honest given I cannot make a visa appointment. And like you said, as a TA I am supposed to report to school a week before classes begin, so first week of August, given we are in mid June and visas are not being issued PLUS the embassy in Spain not knowing when they will open (but not until the end of June at least because of the lockdown phases) and if we have to go through the 14 days of quarantine if we are allowed to travel at all, that will mean travelling by mid July... I honestly do not see the timelines adding up at all, there is just not enough time.

13 minutes ago, geowrian said:

The DV application was specifically stated as a reason by the CO?

Or they just got a 214(b) due to immigrant intent and are attributing it to the DV application?

She hired a lawyer and they appealed or whatever that process is called (do not take the word "appeal" too seriously because it might not be the correct term) and they said that because she had applied and was selected and what not, they had doubts with the intent of going back to her home country and with the whole not wanting to immigrate. 

Again, obviously this was all said in a much more professional and legal way, but despite all my efforts to channel my inner Elle Woods, I am not a lawyer or know the proper terms.

But, honestly, unless the whole DV 2021 gets cancelled because of the ban (which seems to be highly unlikely even if the ban gets extended) I personally think it'll be better to pursue the GC rather than the F1. Because at this point, with embassies closed and given they will probably be extremely backed up once they resume issuing visas, I won't get my F1 before August when the in person classes will begin so I will have to defer any way. Now it's only a matter of knowing if they will let me defer BOTH the TA and the program and if the change in my legal status will affect my acceptance (which it should not, because I am the same person one way or another)

10 minutes ago, geowrian said:

I don't think the refused F-1 was being disputed, but it is speculation as to what exactly caused the refusal. Blaming it on the DV application is like blaming it on the shirt color they wore that day...there's no way to prove or disprove that was the reason.

Plenty of people who enter the lottery do get NIVs issued still.

I agree some other things might have played a part, and I was not there to see this for myself, but that was the reason she was given. In any case, better be safe than sorry this time.

1 hour ago, SusieQQQ said:

I don’t speculate on things like that, it’s pointless imo. 

I know, but I cannot help it, it has me super worried. Sorry.

2 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Entering a lottery is not immigrant intent. 20 million people a year enter. Many of them have no problem getting an immigrant visa. Facial recognition picked up entrants long before passport numbers. People have mentioned before having discussed DV entries in their successful non immigrant visa interviews. On the other hand a lot of F1 applications get denied  with never having entered the lottery. It’s amazing what people come up with as reasons. I have no doubt she was denied under 214b, that’s common, but entering a lottery is not sufficient for that finding. Obviously as you already said there must have been other factors. 

Honestly, let’s just hope the ban gets lifted and I don’t even have to consider it. 
What do you think will happen with that? 
I have been seeing a lot of news lately but nothing for sure 

1 minute ago, SusieQQQ said:

I dispute that. Someone speculating about a denial. 

It’s not speculation, it happened to her at the embassy in Madrid (which is not a complicated one).
The reason they gave her was that it couldn’t be proved she had intention of going back to her country. 
Because of the passport number requirement, it automatically shows you have entered the DV Lottery. That visa is to immigrate and stay. You wouldn’t enter the lottery if you didn’t have intentions/thoughts/etc of moving permanently to the US. 
To qualify for a non immigrant visa such an F1, you need to declare that you have no intention whatsoever or staying in the country afterwards in any way, that you do intend to return to your home country (or at least leave the US) once you’re done.

Obviously a lot of other factors come into play but, for them, if you have expressed your want of moving permanently to the US, you cannot also declare your intent of not staying. It creates more than enough reason for them to doubt your intentions and deny it. 

For anyone wondering: 

Given the new requirement for the DV lottery where you have to include your passport number, I am most likely going to get my F1 denied if I choose to apply. 
This happened to someone I met through this forum around February. 

For DV 2020 or DV 2021?

So four days after the results were published and a few days before we find out if the Executive Order ends by June 23rd... What do you THINK will happen with the EO and this year's winners?

6 hours ago, juancarlos said:

Congrats on that teaching assistantship! I am currently studying with one. Where are you going to study?

I am just worried they won't let me defer OR won't let me take it if I am not an International Student. I will go to MS

45 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

I’d suggest you spend some time on the britsimonsays website. There is a lot of information about the process and answers to the types of questions you’re asking on there.

Sorry. I sent it twice

10 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

I’d suggest you spend some time on the britsimonsays website. There is a lot of information about the process and answers to the types of questions you’re asking on there.

I am still going through it (it is a great resource, thank you for sharing). It is a very overwhelming process

10 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

It might if your case number was low enough for an October interview, but I don’t think that’s the case.  If the EO is extended beyond August, then I’d say don’t fill it in yet as you won’t know when or if you can actually get a DV green card, and go for the F1. As time goes on after you start studying you can then judge whether or not you’ll be able to get a green card depending on developments later.

If the EO is not extended- can’t say your preference but this is what I’d do - defer the masters admission and get the green card first.
 

Bear in mind also advantages to having a green card while you’re a student. More funding options, ability to work freely rather than the usual F1 restrictions, etc. If you do defer you can also move to the US when you get your green card (you won’t have the one month F1 restriction either) and depending on your financial situation, you can either start working to help fund your college fees, or take a few months you might not get otherwise to travel round the US a bit. 

It is still pretty low without having to rush anything, so I guess that is great. Maybe they could even still give me the Assistantship as a resident (now I have it but as an international student)

To get it approved, do I need to show proof of income or proof of savings? Sorry for all the questions, this is overwhelming and I haven't been able to fing actual answers to some of the questions.

What reasons could get it denied?

Thank you for the millionth time

30 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

For EU? Yes, that’s low. Historically this kind of number would have usually interviewed December/January.

Okay so, you would recommend waiting to see what happens on June 23rd and then fill the DS260? That won't affect my chances of having the interview as early as possible right??

And, again, million times thank you for you help

1 minute ago, SusieQQQ said:

It would be highly unusual to not get a DV visa with a low case number. Not everyone understands the process well.

My case number is in the mid 6 thousands. So fingers crossed!!

24 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Think of what is more important to you. If you really want a green card - deferring your masters for a year is not such a big price to pay (especially given the concerns over how fall classes will be taught amid covid). (If you have a low number and can do a spring start on your masters that would probably be ideal, but not sure how many schools do a spring start like that).
 

Once you have submitted a DS260, you have signaled immigrant intent.

What worries me is that I got a Teaching Assistantship ad I do not know if they will let me keep it.

23 minutes ago, aaron2020 said:

To get approved for an F1 student visa, you must prove that you intend to leave the US after finishing your program.  An F1 student visa is a non-immigrant visa and you must have non-immigrant intent to get one.

You can not use an F1 student visa to wait in the US for your green card.  Wanting a green card is evidence that you have immigrant intent.

You will have to make a choice.  It's not possible to have everything you want.   Delay your education and enroll after you get green card.  Nothing's guarantee so you will be taking your chances with the DV lottery.  

Even if I have a low case number, I could still not get the GC?

1 hour ago, milimelo said:

Given the school could start (or not) in August and they can’t start issuing DV visas before October 1, F1 would be common sense. You’d then have to watch your DV number and go AOS route. 

39 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

You can apply for the F1 - but bear in mind there is a chance they may not give it to you as you would effectively be entering the US on a non immigrant visa with intent to stay and adjust status (the process for getting a green card if you are already in the US).  I think you should apply for the F1 as soon as embassies reopen just so you have some certainty. 
 

On the timeline - DV2021 visas will be issued between October 2020 and September 2021. Your case number will determine where in the queue you end up.  Suggest, if you have not already, that you browse the britsimonsays website as there is a lot of information about the DV process, it can be a little confusing to get your head around at first.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR ANSWERS!!!!

My case number is really low so will that be an issue?? the visa bulleting for July is not out yet so I do not know if I will be in for Europe, I was about to fill my DS260 (to be honest I don't even know if I can actually fill it out yet) as soon as the visa bulletin came out. But then I can't get the F1???

I am so extremely confused and overwhelmed right now so thank you so much for your help

Hello!!! 

I hope someone can help me out with this:

 Turns out I won the DV Lottery for this year and, obviously, I just found out today. But I was admitted to a master's program in the US a few months ago (beginning Fall 2020) as an International Student.

I have no idea how long it can take for the DV lottery to get processed and I was wondering if I can still apply for an F1 and begin my masters while I wait for the greencard??

Thank you all so much