imm1234

Hi!

In the section where we have to list the last 5 years of travel, how do I go about entering an exit date of 11/2013 and entry date of 01/2015 (I realize that this was a break in continuous residence). Because the n400 question is asking last 5 years only, should I just list exit date as 5 years before filing (for example 02/07/2014-01/2015 instead of 11/2013-01/2015), Because if I count 11/2013 too, it increases the number of days spent outside. And 2013 dates are going beyond 5 years.

30 months of the last 5 years have already been spent in the US with no trips > 5 months since 2015 (we are filing based on the 4 years plus 1 day rule)

Thank you for your help!

1 hour ago, SusieQQQ said:

Well...if 3 lawyers on AVVO all said you’re good to go why didn’t you just say so and stop the thread? Clearly you have the answer you want.

 

(Personally I’d take the approach that refiling after a denial would be significantly cheaper and probably even faster than using a lawyer to appeal, but according to you that’s not going  to be a problem anyway.)

 

good luck 

I appreciate your responses, but if you refer to my original post, my question to forum has nothing to do with whether my parents are eligible to file or whether they should file or not. I was second guessing myself after a few posts posted here, so I posted on AVVO to confirm. My questions to this forum according to my original post are:

“Has anyone filed and received their citizenship under this rule with no issues? Without retaining an attorney? Is there a way to attach a letter or addendum stating our intent to file under this rule when we file the n400 online?“

And these questions still stand, I realize these are unusual circumstances to file under and there aren’t that many people who do, but I’m still hoping someone on this forum who has filed using this rule could relate their experience to myself and maybe others here who could benefit from that info.

Thanks.

11 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

 

As per previous quoted post above the having to “run back” to the US was the only reason you gave for not waiting. As you acknowlegde here they will still have to “run back”, so is there another reason not to play it safe by waiting? With the length of time it takes to process applications (which you also acknowledge) they could take a year to find out they’ve been rejected, and then have to wait another year after filing a new petition at that stage to eventually naturalize. Seems all that could end up taking significantly longer than the “play it safe” strategy.

It doesn’t make any sense that they would be rejected, if they did get denied we’d probably get a lawyer to appeal that decision, since they had every right to apply earlier than 5 years. The lawyer we consulted with has also successfully dealt with these types of cases before. 

I even asked on AVVO.com after I posted here and all 3 immigration attorneys that responded to my post said my parents are eligible to apply next week based on their travel history.

What if we apply in a year and the wait times go up to 20+ months instead of the 10 months it’s currently taking. That would be worse in my opinion. Maybe if this uncertainty didn’t exist, the decision would be easier to make.

29 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

But then you’re also aware that your father still can’t leave for more than 6 months at a time until the actual naturalization? - given what you said about the rationale for wanting it now being to not have to return to maintain continuous residence.

Yes, as a naturalized citizen myself, I realize this. They can still travel (albeit for under 6 months, but they never even go over 4-5 months per year when traveling outside the US as a precaution) while their n400 is being processed. 

24 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

You’re aware that average processing time for N400 is around 10 months now, plus the usual wait for an oath ceremony? 

Yes, I’m aware. And it could get much longer If we decide to file a year later. My district office had interviews scheduled at 5 months from biometrics this very time last year and now it’s double the time.

On 1/20/2019 at 8:55 AM, EM_Vandaveer said:

Most prudent would be to wait one more year before filing.

Definately, but unfortunately my grandmother lives abroad and her health is getting progressively worse and my father would like to spend time with her before she passes away, instead of having to run back to the US so his continuous residency isn’t broken. Otherwise they would have waited 4 years and 9 months to file. And of course with the current political situation, they would like to file for their citizenship sooner than later.

26 minutes ago, geowrian said:

I hope others chime in, but you have it directly from the horse's mouth in the link above. that's the USCIS policy manual that they use when adjudicating the N-400.

The page that you link on the USCIS site had a footnote that led me to a website that said 

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?&node=se8.1.316_15

(ii) For period in excess of one (1) year. Unless an applicant applies for benefits in accordance with §316.5(d), absences from the United States for a continuous period of one (1) year or more during the period for which continuous residence is required under §316.2 (a)(3) and (a)(5) shall disrupt the continuity of the applicant's residence. An applicant described in this paragraph who must satisfy a five-year statutory residence period may file an application for naturalization four years and one day following the date of the applicant's return to the United States to resume permanent residence. An applicant described in this paragraph who must satisfy a three-year statutory residence period may file an application for naturalization two years and one day following the date of the applicant's return to the United States to resume permanent residence.

2 minutes ago, geowrian said:

Then they don't meet the qualifications for the 4 year + 1 day provision nor the regular 5 year rule at this time. They will become eligible - assuming everything else is in order - at 5 years after their return to the US.

 

Correct. I don't think anybody is suggesting that they file only to get denied then apply again. That provision is usually used when somebody's case was not quite so clear cut that continuous residency was broken, or they didn't know about it and filed anyway. It doesn't make sense to file for naturalization just to get denied & qualify under that provision.

We had two different immigration attorneys (through face to face consultations) confirm that they are eligible to apply under the 4 year and 1 day rule. I was just wondering if anyone on this forum had applied under this rule by themselves with no complications.

29 minutes ago, geowrian said:

https://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartD-Chapter3.html

"An applicant who is required to establish continuous residence for at least 5 years and whose application for naturalization is denied for an absence of one year or longer, may apply for naturalization four years and one day after returning to the United States to resume permanent residence."

 

Have they been denied in the past?

No, they’ve never filed before. They received their GC in 2012 and had maintained continuous residency until 2013 when they had to leave for 15 months after filing for a re-entry permit. My mother had begun chemo treatments abroad and was advised against traveling by her physicians until her treatment ended.

It doesn’t make sense to be denied and then file again after 4 years and 1 day because why would they want anyone to pay the filing fees twice? Knowing they’d get rejected the first time around?

My parents are eligible to file under the 4 year and 1 day rule next week. We have spoken to 2 attorneys and they said my parents are eligible (they left the country for 15 months after filing for a re-entry permit in person before leaving, but they have been maintaining continuous residence since Jan 2015, they had left for health treatments abroad as they didn’t have health insurance here in the US at the time) 

One out of town attorney was too expensive to retain and one said they could just attend the interview with my parents, so wouldn’t have to pay their firm the expensive filing fees.

We can file the n400 without issues, but I have read that sometimes USCIS agents aren’t aware of the 4 year and 1 day rule and will reject the application. There is also no place on the application to clarify that we are filing under the 4 year and 1 day rule as opposed to the 5 years rule. 

Has anyone filed and received their citizenship under this rule with no issues? Without retaining an attorney? Is there a way to attach a letter or addendum stating our intent to file under this rule when we file the n400 online?

Thank you!

Hi,

My parents can file for naturalization on Jan 20th 2019 under the 4 year 10 day ruling. Their continuous presence was interrupted in 2014 because they stayed abroad for longer than a year due to illness but filed for Advanced Parole before they left. They have left the US every year since Jan 2015, but never for more than 5 months. They will have completed 30 months of physical presence in the US by August 2018 (from Jan 2015- August 2018)

They want to go abroad in Sept 2018 and return in Jan 2019, 2 weeks before they are eligible to file their n400. They have resided in the same house in the US since 2012 and their residence will not be changing when they apply for their n400. The USCIS website says:

"In general, an applicant for naturalization must file his or her application for naturalization with the state or service district that has jurisdiction over his or her place of residence. The applicant must have resided in that location for at least three months prior to filing. " 

Does that mean they have to be *physically* present in the US the entire 3 months before they can file their n400? So they shouldn't travel from Sept-Jan? Or is it ok for them to arrive in the US Jan 5th 2019  and then file on Jan 20th?

On a side note, would you recommend they have a lawyer file their case for them because of the one year absence? I personally don't think it makes their case any more difficult, but it isn't the straight forward 3 or 5 year situation either. Thank you for reading!