Cali_D

Just under 2 years (or about) remaining on the (at least) 10 years or 40 quarters.. ok, this time I am really going... cheers.

Thank you for your civility. Cheers. Off to the gym now, so I won't be replying to anyone tonight. 🙂

In the end, you may be right. Though my agreement does have a date for start and stop. She can try to sue me after 10 years, and may very well win. Though, this brings up a different problem. She has a 10 year green card. So if she gets that extended (without me), it may release me of my responsibility. Though, this is just a thought. I have no idea if that is true. Anyway, that's a different topic. But for sure my agreement has an end date for the 10 years. Looked at it today.

That's why I said (I think). Anyways, not looking to argue. I am just telling everyone what 3 lawyers told me today after about 2 hours. You know what really sucks. I can't image the bill I will get for paying for that meeting! lol 😂

Good question, I asked all these questions today. Also, they were clearly spelled out in my judgement papers. If she works 40 quarters, I stop paying. If she becomes a citizen I stop paying. If she goes home tomorrow temporally, I still pay. If she changes her permanent residence, I stop paying. If she dies, I stop paying.

Do you guys care more about being right? Or helping people? Are you suggesting I am lying because I didn't remember the amount I pay every month? Ridiculous. Also, she is under no obligation look for work. She would be obligated to supplement her income if I was paying her spousal support. But I do not pay spousal support. I-864 income is not spousal support. And yes, she could try to collect after 10 years. The Kumar case was ruled on in 2017 (I think). It will be interesting to see what happens after 10 years.

You are dead wrong and clearly didn't read the Kumar case I cited. A payout in divorce doesn't affect the obligation of support per I-864. It doesn't matter that she became a billionaire in a divorce settlement. THIS HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED IN REAL WORLD CASES. You can have your opinion, but you are wrong about the law. Read the full Kumar v. Kumar case please. This was the first most and most known case. After this, many more cases came about, all with the same result. I hate that this has turned into a debate. This is what I was worried about. Please stop spewing your opinion of things as facts.

The problem is, it is not widely known by immigration lawyers because they don't do many divorces. Regardless, I would have still signed the document and 7 years ago when I signed it my income as far less than it is today. Love makes you do crazy things, lol 🤣

Payout I could give her $0 or million dollars, it would have no bearing on the I-864. My payout was a DIVORCE SETTLEMENT. I-864 has nothing to do with divorce. These matters are not related. 3 lawyers told me that today. If she was an American, I would have paid her the same 250, with no I-864 support. Conversely, if I was broke and she was an immigrant, I would have paid her zero dollars in divorce settlement and I would still be paying her monthly per the case law on I-864. If Bill Gates marries an immigrant, he will be paying her monthly per the case law on I-864. I realize thats an extreme example, but it's true. Even if he gave her a billion dollars, she would be able to collect the tiny amount from I-864. Even if the court ordered Bill to pay a monthly spousal support of a million dollars a month, she would still be able to collect the tiny additional amount from I-864. Divorce settlement and I-864 support are in no way related. I am not sure how to make the more clear. Increase amount The amount would only go up if the person sues me. Nothing is automated. There is no system in place for automatic increase. 10 years 10 years came from the case law. The document stats 40 quarters (10 years). As I have said many times, this has been interpreted by the court to mean I must pay 125% above the living wage for 10 years. If you want to understand the real world consequences of signing an i-864, look at case law, not just the document.

Not going to reply to each person.. I'll just try to answer a few questions.. The large payout of 250k has absolutely nothing to do with the I-864. Nothing. Zero. Forget about it. It's not a factor when determining how much she should be paid per I-864 guidelines. That payout was a divorce settlement. As explained several times, these are 2 very different issues. I don't know if the amount will ever increase but it can, that depends on my ex. It's actually just under 2k. Regardless, for the amount to increase, my ex would need to take me to court (unless I just agree) and a judge would decide if it would increase. And, I can 100% tell you, YES it would increase. I would lose because I am bound to support her for 10 years. That's the law. Something my lawyer told me today that I think might be helpful to everyone .. The document is not the most important part of understanding the law, the interpretation of the document is the most important thing. Many judges have given their interpretation of this through case law. So, if you want to understand the law, you really need to look at how judges have ruled and interpreted documents. This is why we have a US Supreme court and State Supreme courts. So in ALL cases taken to federal and state court (in CA and others), the court determined the I-864 means you will pay directly to your spouse (if they so choose) for 10 years. There is no getting around it. Even with a prenuptial agreement.

I don't understand what you mean. My current agreement does match the requirements of the I-864. It says I will pay her in accordance to the I-864 guidelines, which is what everyone agrees to when signing that document. This is what everyone doesn't seem to understand. To be clear: the I-864 legally binds anyone who signs it to pay DIRECTLY to the person you sponsor. Given that, I'm not sure what you are asking?

Update: My divorce lawyer reached out to 2 immigration lawyers today. Both of them started confident that the I-864 ONLY binds me to the government. They ended the conversation realizing they were wrong. I am also bound to directly support the person I sponsor. The case I referenced earlier Kumar v. Kumar is the reason. Family court has upheld that the sponsor must pay directly to the immigrant. The 3 lawyers then found many other case law examples where this has been upheld. To those that give advice (on this website), please be careful when stating things as fact. Obviously most people were wrong about this. Let's not care about being right or wrong. Let's only care that the correct information is being given out. Also, I realized today that using an immigration lawyer is great for getting an immigrant into America. But it seems they are not great at family law. They didn't know anything about divorce, division of assets, martial agreement etc... Not sure if this is the final update or not. If there is more, I will come back to update.

This, I did ask. They told me plainly, because 99% of the people divorcing (and their attorneys) don't understand immigration law. They come to places like this website (no offense to anyone, I appreciate the feedback) and get legal advice from people that have good intentions but are not experts on the granular details of the law. This site is a great resource for understanding the process behind visa's. But when it comes to contracts and legalities, lawyers seem to be the way to go. I'm living proof! 😂

Honestly don't know. It will be couple weeks before the expert is available. I will try to follow up then.

There is nothing in my agreement that clarifies this point, that I am aware of. So I am not sure and I did not ask either lawyer this question.

I will stop paying.

Yes, I started paying this out a little before the divorce was settled as instructed by the lawyer. The time starts at that moment, assuming I have not missed any payments, which I guess I haven't as my finance people do all that.

Thanks for the insight, I was really trying to keep this to a legal conversation. My motives go deeper than I have explained here. Anyway, thanks

I do know what she is doing. Not much. It was a Divorce Court settlement, but we (my lawyer) settled because I would have lost if she decided to sue for money owned to her though the I-864. It was just easier for everyone I guess. ?? Thanks!

I know this is a lot of messages, so maybe you didn't read through all of this (understandable). I explained before this is absolutely not about the money. In the end, it seems I will have no choice but to let it go. I just want to see her do more in life. She is young, smart and talented with a high level of education. She has a Masters degree in economics. If she has no financial support, she will succeed, I'm sure of it. Anyway, that's my motive.

Update: (this is becoming a soap opera!) Today my divorce lawyer and immigration lawyer had a meeting. In the end they both agree that the divorce lawyer was right all along. Yes, the I-864 does bind me to the federal government, however there is a paragraph in there (I read it today) that clearly says the sponsor must support the immigrant… What Does Signing Form I-864 Require Me To Do? Provide the intending immigrant any support necessary to maintain him or her at an income that is at least 125 percent of the Federal Poverty Guidelines for his or her household size. I’m told, this is where everyone makes there mistake. Most people don’t realize the immigrant has the choice to take services from the government or from the sponsor (me). My ex choose take the money from me. I could have fought this, but I would have lost. Both lawyers agree that it’s 100% for sure that I would have lost if I tried to fight this. Literally 100% of immigrants that sue the sponsor directly for the support money win the case. The lawyers went through case law, after case law, to show me this is the correct outcome and there is no getting out of it. Most famously in the case: Kumar v. Kumar. This case is what changed everything in America. https://casetext.com/case/kumar-v-kumar-in-re-kumar They (the lawyers) are going to meet with one other immigration lawyer which is said to be the best, but it’s not looking good. Not looking for a debate, just telling you what a 25 year immigration lawyer and a 30 year divorce lawyer told me. Seems I have flip-flopped many times on this. Ha Ha. Don't shoot the messenger.

Perhaps, though I have an update that is going to do a 180 on all this, lol... standby.

Both misled (by mistake), and I certainly didn't do any homework. 😆

Update on this issue. Please note, if you are one of the few rude people, please don't bother replying. If you are of helpful type, thank you. I don't want this to turn into a debate, which some people on these forums can't help but do. I obviously have no understanding of immigration law, nor have I ever pretended to. Please keep your judgments to yourself. Thank you. I contacted my business lawyer last week, naturally they had no idea about any of this, so they referred me to a immigration lawyer. The immigration lawyer confirmed that what most of you are saying is correct, that the I-864 binds me to pay the government, not my ex (my sponsor). However, where many people were incorrect is, the amount I am obliged to pay (if any) is certainly localized to the area in which they live. This is not important, just thought I would mention it. The reason I was paying directly to my ex is because she was smart (or tricky?) and added some odd language about the I-864 to the dissolution of marriage and the local court had no idea what an I-864 document was. We think, they assumed it was some sort of spousal support agreement because my divorce agreement does say I will pay for the I-864. The judge in the divorce court, myself and my divorce lawyer didn't realize this meant I pay the government, if they request it and not my sponsor (ex-wife). So, the issue is now getting my divorce agreement amended. This is my next task and the immigration lawyer didn't know anything about that process. So now I will go back the divorce lawyer and ask them. The immigration lawyer did say I may consider using a contracts lawyer in conjunction with a divorce lawyer. 3 layers for this so far and maybe a 4th! lol, crazy. 🤪

I think Cathi's post was full of intent. Quite condescending. Yes, already sent a text to my lawyer. We have a meeting tomorrow at 1:00. Sounds like they will refer me to a specialist though. Either way it's a start.