laura428

We're in a similar situation. I've been a landed immigrant in Canada for over five years, so obviously have not maintained domicile in the States. However, we chose to file DCF. After speaking with Montreal over the phone, I was told that the steps we're taking to establish domicile should be sufficient:

1) Listing our house with a realtor before the interview.

2) Bringing letters of employment from US employers, showing intent to work within US borders.

My husband's interview is a week from Friday... I'll be able to tell you for sure then if it was enough! By the way, a friend of mine just did the same thing. They were both resident in Canada... had the interview a few weeks ago. The officer didn't even ask about domicile or financials (?!?!?!?)... said it was a cakewalk. I can only hope that my husband gets the same officer!

Also... on the financial end of things... I'm a stay at home mom, so have no income, US or otherwise, for the I-864. We're using assets in lieu of income, plus have joint sponsors as backup. Just thought this might be an option for you, too. Your husband's job, and income (US or otherwise), may or may not matter, depending on the officer you get.

Not that you should have to, but what will you be doing to resolve the domicile dilemna?

Congrats - sounds like a great trip!!

Congrats!!

In Eastern NC here we ahve a RNC centura and it is in NO way affiliated with our Canadian RBC I found that out the hard way. Yes I can go withdraw money, cannot deposit or do anything else. The branch manager told me that they are NOT the same bank company. go figure. So I do all my Canadian banking online with my RBC bank card.

Yep... I was told by our local RBC that they severed ties with Centura sometime last year, I think. We were hoping to go through them for our mortgage, but no dice.

Thanks for the info... that's what I figured. Guess we didn't really need to get the kids' pictures taken so soon, but at least they're done. We'll just use them to get the passports as soon as we get the SSNs.

what zyggy says sounds right to me. why would we pay US capital gains on a property located in canada?

anyway, that's what i'm sticking with. we sold our house last night (woohoo!) and i don't plan on giving any of that money to either government!

Yay for you guys! Hey, btw, did you guys use a realtor or sell it yourselves? We're debating... it seems almost silly to use a realtor in this hot market, but we've got a guy who did an appraisal for us back in February we might use if we decide to go that route. Maybe we'll see if he's willing to budge on his commission...

WHen one is living abroad, you can only get taxed on Capital Gains for those gains that are on property in the US. You cannot be taxed on Capital Gains for property that is located outside of the US if one is living abroad.

Hi Zyggy...

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, we would not pay capital gains while still living here. Does this mean that, as long as we sell our property before moving back to the States, that we won't pay then, either? Does it matter that we'll have moved back to the States in the same tax year as when we sold our Canadian property?

I'm hoping this is correct. It seems odd that Canada won't tax us on our primary residence, but the States would, even when it's on foreign soil and sold before we move back.

I'm planning on going to the Consulate on Monday to submit my kids' applications for Consular Report of Birth Abroad. We're applying for the SSNs at the same time. In the instruction section, it says that we may apply for their US passports in lieu of the Consular Reports of Birth Abroad at a passport acceptance agency if we prefer. I also remember being told during our last visit to the Consulate that we could apply for their passports if we like. However, in the application (DS-11), it asks for their SSNs, which we obviously don't have as we're just now applying for documentation of their US citizenship. (Using the online form, it won't even let me proceed without entering a SSN.)

It would seem to me, then, that applying for their passports isn't possible until we've obtained their SSNs, correct?

Here is a good starting point.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/intern...d=96392,00.html

It's kind of complicated your first year.

Thank you, but question... the above link applies to non-USCs, but I am the USC in this case, sponsoring my husband. (Doing DCF - we're both residing outside of the States right now.) I'm trying to find info that's relevant to a USC, living outside of the States as a landed immigrant and owning property there, selling said property and moving back to the States for the last three months of the calendar year. The property is jointly owned by my husband (alien-to-be) and myself, yes, but the only tax info I've seen thus far is for non-USCs. I'm sure we'll have an interesting time filtering through all of the info relevant to him, but I can't seem to find a starting point for me.

Will I, as a USC, be subject to capital gains tax for selling my foreign principal residence, 100% owned (read: not rented out), but also not lived in for a full two years (built and moved in January 2005)? It seems that if this is the case, no one in their right mind would sell their property and move to the States within the same calendar year. If it turns out that we WILL owe, I'd like to find out asap as we may very well postpone our move to avoid it.

I tried calling the IRS help line earlier today - thinking that might be my best option for an accurate answer as our case is a bit complicated. Of course, it rang ten times then disconnected...

If you are considered a US resident for tax purposes for the entire year, and you have lived in the house less than 2 out of the past 5 years, then it may be subject to tax by the IRS.

http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq-kw127.html

But if we're not residents the entire year (only the last three months of 2006, potentially), then this shouldn't apply, right? I took a look at the links and publications included, but didn't see anything specifically addressing someone who only lives in the States for part of the year.

wally, an American with income must file a U.S. return every year no matter where in the world they live, whether they owe tax to Uncle Sam or not. It's not easy finding a tax preparer with credentials in both Canada and the U.S., nor is it cheap. Something to think about before moving to Canada or taking out citizenship there.

Yup... I've filed every year I've been here (except for 2004 - still have no idea how I spaced that... thankfully don't owe anything, though, as I had no income). I found the easiest way to get a US/Canadian accountant is to contact H&R Block. If they don't have someone in office, they can locate someone who can help you. Cost me around $130 every year to have it done.

Wow, congrats! It took us eight months to do the Canadian route back in 2000/2001... guess they've sped up the process! Enjoy your year here... I've definitely loved my last five.

Congrats!

did you hear anything, laura? man, that's really going to suck if we have to pay capital gains. let me know what you find out - i'm going to ask our financial planner. he didn't mention anything about this before, but now i want to be sure.

No worries. I was told that as long as you sell before you take up residence in the States, and that your house was 100% owned by you, i.e., you didn't rent out any portion of it, you're fine (just like you would be if you weren't moving out of country). It'll mean filling out a bit more paperwork at tax time next year, but you won't owe anything. (Can you imagine???????)

Here's a direct link w/more info:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/t4037/t4...ml#P4419_154030

IMHO you can relax. However if you want to double check (and I suggest you do...you don't know me or anyone else here and this is finances! ), the International Tax office is amazing for answering questions for Canadians exiting the country. 1-800-277-5177

Hey, I just tried that number but instead of reaching the International Tax office, I got Home 1-2-3, a mortgage company...? Could you double-check that and let me know if it's a different number? Thanks!

Nevermind... just Googled it myself. It's actually 1-800-267-5177. Now, if I could just get through.

IMHO you can relax. However if you want to double check (and I suggest you do...you don't know me or anyone else here and this is finances! ), the International Tax office is amazing for answering questions for Canadians exiting the country. 1-800-277-5177

Hey, I just tried that number but instead of reaching the International Tax office, I got Home 1-2-3, a mortgage company...? Could you double-check that and let me know if it's a different number? Thanks!

I sold my apartment in Vancouver 3 months before I left the country (deal closed April 2005, I moved July 2005). It was my primary residence (I lived in it). I was told by a financial advisor that as it was my primary residence it was NOT subject to capital gains.

I received no tax submission slips for capital gains (which I've had before for investments) for this. I filed 2005 taxes without issue.

IMHO you can relax. However if you want to double check (and I suggest you do...you don't know me or anyone else here and this is finances! ), the International Tax office is amazing for answering questions for Canadians exiting the country. 1-800-277-5177

edit: I didn't read your link. It would make sense to me though that from the little you quoted that if a person completes emigration (leaves the country) and then sells the property/home after leaving, then yes, capital gains apply...because it's not your primary residence any longer. Again, Revenue Canada should be able to clarify that. There may be some gray area about if it's on the market before you leave and then sells after.

Also, look around at Serbinski's tax forums: http://www.serbinski.com/ I'm sure something will be covered there.

Thank you SO much! I will definitely be calling that number on Monday - what a great resource.

Yeah... I'm wondering if the penalty comes only if you sell AFTER moving to the States. Our plan is to sell then move roughly 3-5 weeks later. We were also considering re-investing some of our profit in real estate here to take further advantage of the boom, but after reading a bit, I'm thinking we might be better to invest elsewhere with all of the taxes involved (it being a secondary property and living out of country). Perhaps more ?s for the International Tax office, eh?

So, I've been doing a bunch of research on capital gains and stumbled upon something that's scaring the bejeezus out of me...

We bought our house in Calgary two years ago, right before the boom, and have seen a nice increase in it's value since. I know that if we were to sell and stay in Canada, we wouldn't have to pay capital gains tax because it's our primary residence. However, I just read something that... I *think*... says that we might have to pay if we leave Canada.

"If a resident of Canada moves to another country, and severs residential ties with Canada, he/she is deemed to be an emigrant of Canada for tax purposes. When this happens, the person is deemed to have disposed of almost all their property and re-acquired it at fair market value. Tax will be payable on any capital gains arising from the deemed dispositions."

via http://www.taxtips.ca/personal_income_tax.htm

Has anyone been through this? I'd appreciate any insight here, as the gains we've made were going to fund our new home plus our kids' college education. Please please please say this isn't so...

Yay Kara & Blaine!!!!!!! I'm so happy for you guys, and it sounds like it was so easy! I was really curious to hear about his interview because our situations are so similar (both stay at home moms who don't have *true* domicile in the States). Sounds like it was a breeze.

California, here you come!!!

Yay Kara & Blaine!!!!!!! I'm so happy for you guys, and it sounds like it was so easy! I was really curious to hear about his interview because our situations are so similar (both stay at home moms who don't have *true* domicile in the States). Sounds like it was a breeze.

California, here you come!!!

hey laura...

kara, here. just wanted to jump in on the reports of birth abroad - i didn't have to bring blaine with me to the consulate (i was just there last week), and the actual report isn't mailed to you until about 4-6 weeks later. they do, however, give you a receipt showing that you have requested the report of birth abroad.

i'd recommend going first thing in the morning - i was there at 8:30am, and done by 9:30. last year, when i took my oldest, i didn't arrive until around 10am, and didn't get out until after 1pm. you spend the bulk of your time waiting (or in my case, walking with the baby!). and even though they say no strollers, i saw people with HUGE strollers, purses, diaper bags, etc. i had everything i needed loaded in my jacket (and a sling over my shoulder).

have fun!

kara

Hey Kara! I'm so glad you posted this... how is it that two people can go through the same consulate and get completely conflicting information? What's even stranger is that when we went to file Brian's I-130, we were told, and quite adamantly, that Brian absolutely must be there when we file for the kids' consular records of birth. And when we got there, we were told that we had to check our stroller, along with our electronic devices, at the copy center on the first floor. Oy vey... Maybe they've eased up a bit on things since we filed. Ahhh well, thankfully Brian's already slotted a morning to go, so we should be ok.

We're actually heading to Black's this weekend to get the photos done, for the kids' passports and for Brian (for his medical) and me (for my citizenship). Did you have to take the kids there? The license branch told us that they don't do kids' photos anymore. Then as long as that gets done this weekend, we'll head to the consulate sometime early next week. Sounds like we may not have the actual records before Brian's interview, but should definitely have them before the move. And at least we'll have the receipts in the interim.

Wait... Blaine's interview is today, isn't it??? Wow - how exciting!!!!!!! Let me know how everything goes!!

That's what I mean.. I don't think you have a month or two... If you want to make it happen, you need to do it before August...

The paperwork only takes an hour or two to fill out. If I were you, I would give the kids to dad and take a couple of hours to do it..

The form, two pictures, the payment, and a copy of your Permanent resident card, your DL and passport is all you need to get started...

Getting another Citizenship is something that is very special and unique.. don't let this golden opportunity pass you by..

Ok, Zyggy... this is the last thing I'm going to say about this. And quite honestly, although I appreciate all of the advice you've provided to me and others here, not even my parents would be on me like you've been, as they know that if I say I'm going to do something, I do it.

If it were as easy as giving the kids to Dad, I'd be thrilled to do so. However, Dad works 7:30am to 5:30pm, eats dinner, helps with the kids until bedtime, and then goes back to work until our bedtime, or his if he's working late. Not just Monday through Friday, but even on the weekend. What's more, I cannot just pass the kids over to Dad even when he has time, as my youngest is a very high needs infant... something else that takes up quite a bit of my time.

For me to go get pictures taken, I have to go when neither of my kids is napping, the youngest of which naps during mid-morning and mid-afternoon, and the oldest who naps in the afternoon as well (just not, unfortunately, at the same time as the youngest). So finding time after breakfast, then between getting the kids ready for the day, naptimes, lunchtimes, second naptimes, grocery store runs, playtime, getting dinner ready, bedtime, and everything in between, is much easier said than done.

The form is done, and has been done, for months, quite honestly. Even the copies of my PR card, drivers license and passport are done. But when you're juggling what I'm juggling right now, finding an opportunity to actually file them is not so easy.

That is NOT to say that it is not high on my priority list. Again, just not this second.

Sorry if this is coming off as harsh, I really don't mean it to be. But I'm kinda feeling backed into a wall here as every time I post about something (that has nothing to do with this Canadian citizenship issue OR filing for my kids' records of birth), you've asked if I've done it yet. In fact, I'm beginning to feel a little leery about posting anything here at all for risk of having to face the inquisition again.

Respectfully, Zyggy, it will get done. Period. End of discussion.

Yes, but my point is that if you move outside of Canada, unless you make arrangements to come back for those two years (out of five), you're hooped without your citizenship. I'd think trying to come back for two years, even sporadically, would be pretty unrealistic for most people.

Surely, they can't mean that by living with your Canadian spouse outside of Canada makes you exempt...?

go look at the CIC webpage. the only way I can figure out how to read the exemption is the time that you spend with your Canadian citizen spouse counts towards the two out of five. there's even something elsewhere on the site that specifically says that if you are maintaining your PR status by being with your citizen spouse, that time doesn't count towards the residency requirement for citizenship.

Thermophile is correct... If you are living with your Canadian CItizen spouse, that time counts toward the two year out of 5 year requirement. Meaning that if you are still married to your Canadian Citizen spouse, you dfo not lose your Permanent Resident Status...

From the Canadian Immigration and Refugee Protection Act...

28. (1) A permanent resident must comply with a residency obligation with respect to every five-year period.

Application

(2) The following provisions govern the residency obligation under subsection (1):

(a) a permanent resident complies with the residency obligation with respect to a five-year period if, on each of a total of at least 730 days in that five-year period, they are

(i) physically present in Canada,

(ii) outside Canada accompanying a Canadian citizen who is their spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, their parent,

(iii) outside Canada employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business or in the federal public administration or the public service of a province,

(iv) outside Canada accompanying a permanent resident who is their spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, their parent and who is employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business or in the federal public administration or the public service of a province, or

(v) referred to in regulations providing for other means of compliance;

Wow, that's great news! I still plan on getting my Canadian citizenship, but it's nice to know that there isn't so much pressure to get it done along with everything else that's going on.

On the contrary... there is tremendous pressure on you to get it done... because the Citizenship Act requires three years of residence in Canada out of the last 4 years at the time you take the oath. If they take more than a year to process your Citizenship App, you're SOL.

If you are eligible.. apply NOW...

Zyggy, it's ok. I just meant that it does not have to be done today. I fully intend on getting the process started within the next few months. Just nice to have one thing off of my immediate plate, as I'm currently balancing this immigration process, packing up my house, researching the real estate market where we're going, maintaining a few budgets with my husband's varied employment opportunities, and... oh yeah... taking care of my two and a half year old and seven month old.

It will get done. Just not this second.

Yes, but my point is that if you move outside of Canada, unless you make arrangements to come back for those two years (out of five), you're hooped without your citizenship. I'd think trying to come back for two years, even sporadically, would be pretty unrealistic for most people.

Surely, they can't mean that by living with your Canadian spouse outside of Canada makes you exempt...?

go look at the CIC webpage. the only way I can figure out how to read the exemption is the time that you spend with your Canadian citizen spouse counts towards the two out of five. there's even something elsewhere on the site that specifically says that if you are maintaining your PR status by being with your citizen spouse, that time doesn't count towards the residency requirement for citizenship.

Thermophile is correct... If you are living with your Canadian CItizen spouse, that time counts toward the two year out of 5 year requirement. Meaning that if you are still married to your Canadian Citizen spouse, you dfo not lose your Permanent Resident Status...

From the Canadian Immigration and Refugee Protection Act...

28. (1) A permanent resident must comply with a residency obligation with respect to every five-year period.

Application

(2) The following provisions govern the residency obligation under subsection (1):

(a) a permanent resident complies with the residency obligation with respect to a five-year period if, on each of a total of at least 730 days in that five-year period, they are

(i) physically present in Canada,

(ii) outside Canada accompanying a Canadian citizen who is their spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, their parent,

(iii) outside Canada employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business or in the federal public administration or the public service of a province,

(iv) outside Canada accompanying a permanent resident who is their spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, their parent and who is employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business or in the federal public administration or the public service of a province, or

(v) referred to in regulations providing for other means of compliance;

Wow, that's great news! I still plan on getting my Canadian citizenship, but it's nice to know that there isn't so much pressure to get it done along with everything else that's going on.

Ah yes, I understand why you were concerned about showing some tie to the US. That issue of domicile is something that USCIS is going to have to decide on. On the one hand, some US consulates will not allow USCs to file for DCF unless they are a resident of that country, but on the other hand they require the USC to show that they have a residence in the US.

I'm a little confused though Laura. Since you indicate that your home town is South Bend, Indiana (home of one my favourite college teams, the Fighting Irish), aren't you the one that has to prove domicile rather than your husband?

AussieDude

I know, the fact that I am required to show permanent residency in Canada to qualify for DCF filing, but then am also required to show domicile in the States is a little frustrating. The only things I have in the States showing ties are a few bank accounts in my name, both of which have been sent to my parents' address for the last five years. I'm a stay at home mom, so no US employment confirmation for me. When I talked to Montreal, however, I was told that these really meant nothing, but that showing my husband's employment letter, along with listing our house (selling would be better), should be sufficient, but that it was up to the particular officer my husband talks to.

Go Irish!

To answer you question.. no it does not need to be notarized... In fact, nothing need to anymore...

P.S. Did you get those consular records of birth...

Thanks Zyggy. And I knew you were going to ask me about the consular records of birth. If it were just me who needed to go, they'd be done by now. But because my husband needs to be present as well, and because he's shouldering a ridiculously busy full-time job plus two contract jobs, no, we haven't gone yet. But I'm not worried, still plenty of time. We've got seven weeks until the interview, plus a good month after that before we leave for the States. I've been told that the records should be available to us the next day, so we're still ok.

Don't worry... we won't forget.