groovlstk

Not sure if your questions are rhetorical, but I'll answer as honestly as I can based on my experiences.

Dating as equals?

Yes, as in she didn't see me as a ticket to the land of milk and honey, and I didn't see her as someone desperate to escape a hard life.

Why do so many FSU women post their profiles to internet sites in the USA?

I didn't meet my wife through a marriage agency or dating site, but I'd say there are a myriad of reasons, many of which (both good and bad) can be boiled down to simple economics.

Why do so many American men spend a small fortune and all the grief of travel to meet a FSU women?

Same answer: I'd say there are a myriad of reasons, many of which (both good and bad) can be boiled down to simple economics.

I think women in Moscow and St. Petersburg probably are not so anxious to leave their homeland and also have nice flats, jobs, cars, etc.

This is absolutely true and something I took as a positive. My wife is originally from Moscow and when we were dating we were able to do so as equals.

My wife and I married in Las Vegas two months after her arrival, and then we had a more formal celebration for our family and friends four months later. I'm glad we took this approach since her family and some friends wanted to join us and needed to make arrangements and apply for visas, plus it just made things less frantic.

The place we used in Vegas was called A Hollywood Wedding Chapel. We didn't scout it out first and when we arrived we found a musty office carpeted with astroturf. The only "Hollywood" reference in the office was a poster of that crappy movie K-PAX on one wall. One of the couples waiting their turn were drunk as skunks, and we've speculated about what happened when they sobered up more than once The minister speed-read a cheezy sermon he's probably done 2000 times and then gave us the "here's your hat, what's your hurry?" routine. And despite all this, or maybe because of it, it was the most romantic and wonderful thing in the world

My wife loves fruit, gorges on it, and one of my weekly pleasures is surprising her with new varieties she may not have tried in Russia and/or whatever is fresh at the time.

But man, we just had the Summer of Fruit Flies. Every time I thought they were eradicated, I'd find a banana peel or some juice spilled on the counter, and bingo a whole new generation of the little SOBs were free to spend their short lives circling my beer mug.

[Yes, i want i will focus on the worst case scenario because I am the one being affected by the current situation. I will not make any excuses for the VSC. They are notorious for dragging their feet.

Dragging their feet? You mean you believe they are intentionally sitting on stacks of applications rather than dealing with an understaffed workforce or competing directives from management?

Pfft, come and complain after you've been waiting for a year, not a few months. There are people with legitimate claims of poor service, you are not one of them.

In Cheljabinsk there is a great place where you can have 2 hours private sauna for only about 50 bucks. Not traditional Russian banja I guess (never have been, but I have read those involve beatings on the back).

Don't believe the things you read about banyas in the western press. I was similarly wary about the "beatings with twigs" until I went myself.

If you have a Russian banya nearby, treat yourself. I absolutely love going, especially in the Winter. The place my wife and I go to has several different heated rooms, some dry and some wet, all with different temperatures. There's a lounge area where people throw back Baltika and vodka, order food, etc. My favorite thing is hanging out in the hottest room until it gets uncomfortable and then jumping into a pool of ice-cold water. Sounds insane, just like the Russian guys who do the same thing in freezing river water, right? It's the best feeling in the world, and not at all uncomfortable, despite how it looks on TV.

I stopped trying to get my American friends to join us, they always give me a wierd look as if the whole banya thing is some quirky, uncomfortable tradition among Russians. The joke's on them, though - it's a million times more relaxing than ordering takeout and a six-pack and watching TV.

To be quite honest, I didn't really like The Big Lebowski all that much. It was funny, but I didn't buy it or anything. I've only watched it a few times, so maybe I'll watch it again one day and it'll just click for me. There were funny parts, but for my money, if I'm going to watch a bowling movie, I'll take Kingpin over TBL any day.

One thing to note with TBL - it's easy to semi-dismiss it as mildly funny but not very exceptional after a single viewing. I was persuaded to give it a 2nd look by a friend, and after that every time I watched it I discovered new comic gems in the dialog. There's so much going on just below the surface that it takes a few viewings to appreciate it

Both the Big Lebowski and Army of Darkness are big in my house. I think the only films I introduced were some of my older favorites, like Sunset Boulevard.

Wow, I haven't yet shown The Big L to my wife, yet - I assumed the humor (most of which is via dialog) wouldn't translate well. I'll have to give it a try this week.

One of my friends and I went to Lebowskifest a few years ago when it came to NYC. I've never before watched a movie that gets funnier every time you see it.

Don't sweat it, too often people get consumed with accumulating a sheer mass of evidence - if your marriage is bonafide you'll have nothing to worry about. FWIW, my wife and I didn't get around to putting her name on our checking account until after AOS, the only thing our AOS interviewer asked was the date of our marriage and if she had an EAD card (which he confiscated since it was no longer necessary). We were one of only a few couples who didn't have a lawyer with us (and listening to the lawyers coaching their clients 5 minutes before their scheduled interviews to be sure they had their stories/names/dates in synch was sad but comforting). It will be over before you even know it.

As much as I'd like to agree with groovlstk, I don't think women even know themselves, so getting to know one over the course of three months is great, but you'll just have to relearn her three months later. And then again three months later.

.... and the cycle continues.

Get married. Don't get married. Whatever. I don't think it really matters whether you know the person or not. I spent the better part of six years communicating with my wife before she got here. I still don't have her figured out. I don't think it's because I can't do it, it's because she can't figure herself out so who am I supposed to get to know?

Three months is nowhere near long enough. Three years isn't either. Thirty, maybe. Check back in 2030 and I'll let you know.

I think we're talking semantics, here. I don't think it's possible for anyone to truly know another person down to the last centime - man or woman - but it's a flimsy justification for marrying a complete stranger.

I am trying to book flights for after the interview and I wasn't sure how long it takes to get the visa. I realize this might not be the wisest thing, but chance is good for the soul. Any advice would be appreciated.

As a side note, I have been reading on this forum for a while and occasionally posting. You guys crack me up.

You should arrange to pick up her visa at the DHL office. It's accessible via marshrutka. I took a calculated risk and pre-booked my wife and I tickets from Moscow to NYC 8 days after her scheduled interview date. Everything worked out fine (we had the visa in hand three days after the interview) but like others have said here, it's a risk.

Not to sound snarky, but I think this is common sense. Even two USC's who have been dating and seeing each other in person for months or longer will not have a "representative" experience within the first 90 days. People should do what feels right for them. If that means using the 90 days to "get to know each other better" then so be it. It's not my business to say they can't.

Maybe I wasn't clear, but the entire point of my post is that it's not wise to plan on doing the "getting to know you" thing while simultaneously making a decision on whether to marry her while she's experiencing this once-in-a-lifetime variety of stress.

I'm late to add my two bits to this thread, but to any of you who think you can use the 90-day K1 period as a trial, you should know that those 90 days are not representative of what your life together will be like. When your fiancee arrives, she'll very likely be overwhelmed on many fronts as she tries to make sense of her new environment.

This is just my experience, but when my wife arrived in '06 she behaved much differently than she did when we met on her own turf (and thankfully, I had the sense not to propose to her after a few dates and spent enough time with her before filing my K1 to know this was not her normal emotional state of being). Her moods were mercurial, she was weeks getting over jetlag, she'd turn from affectionate to cranky in moments when she was tired - the list goes on and on. I guess the only metaphor that comes to my mind is your first days of school when you were a child - this time may have been a nightmare and you cried for your mom every morning, or you made some fast friends and had a blast - but in all likelyhood those days were not representative of the next few years.

So whitey's hands are clean in all of this?

Only if you believe there were dirty hands to begin with, which I do not.

You guys are still dodging the race card...... well, that'd be the SOP, right?

I dodged the race question because it's not something I like to accuse someone of lightly. It raised my eyebrows too, but I take groovlstk at his word that he was describing the situation using "black" as an adjective rather than as a racial undertone. I otherwise disagree with his stance on the issue, but there's plenty to pick apart without going there.

I don't know the demographics of the people cited in Blues Fairy's earlier post about the mob who beat students who were cheering after 9/11 (or was it all hypothetical?). There was no agreement that "something should be done," what occurred was completely spontaneous. There was no time for even the slightest planning and everything was over in a matter of minutes. If you coughed you would have missed it.

You guys are still dodging the race card...... well, that'd be the SOP, right?

Slim, sorry if my initial post was confusing, there should be no race issue, it's just geography.

The area where this happened is sort of a conflux of two distinct neighborhoods, one Egyptian and one African American. There are actually more tensions between Copt and Muslim factions within the Egyptian neighborhood. I honestly can't imagine any different outcome were this to have occurred in the Italian, Polish, Puerto Rican, or any other nearby communities.

yes, I know what the word means, and unlike you I know how to spell it

Damn that spelling mistake rule that automatically loses me the argument. Oh if only I'd been more careful with my spell checking.

Mox, actually that was a low blow on my part. I know you know how to spell it. So I may have to wrest the mantle of defeat from your grasp.

Please. The "I was there, it affected me more than it affected you, so you have no right to question my perceptions" is a tired fallacy that's been used for 7 years to shut down any conversation--sorry but I'm not buying it. You should look up the definition of "sanctimounious" before you start applying it so loosely.

I love reading these sanctimonious - yes, I know what the word means, and unlike you I know how to spell it - discussions about due process and justice after the fact. Mox, you're so willing to take into account that the poor guy who was beaten was off his meds that day, are you willing to extend the same possibility to the guys who beat him? Maybe they were "completely hysterical over recent events" and were not in control of their mental faculties, excuses you are quick to extend to the guy who ignited the fracas but not those who were initially minding their own business and wanted nothing more than to get on with their day.

Mox, you and your pals have the luxury of sitting here and preaching about justice and due process with all the earnestness of philosophers chained to a madhouse wall. I'm sorry if it sticks in your craw, but you could never understand the shock and tension in the air that day.

I gave you some really good examples of what might have been going on, and you ignored them because it conflicts with your own prejudices. You saw what you wanted to see.

Really good examples? Such as the guy was off his meds? Please, tell it to Dr. Phil or Oprah.

Seven years later and I haven't the faintest degree of empathy or sympathy for him.

If you believe might makes right, then I guess this makes sense.

If I went into an African American neighborhood and started shouting racial epithets, I'd deserve to get a good popka-whoopin'. The man was no innocent bystander chosen at random. He peed on the wrong group of people at the absolute worst possible time. He knew the possible consequences yet couldn't contain his joy at what he witnessed that day.

On the other hand, what if the guy had been mentally handicapped? Over-medicated? Under-medicated? So completely hysterical over recent events that he wasn't in control of his mental faculties? You think you were seeing the whole story, but there's a good chance you weren't.

Someone who watched the day's events on TV, who wasn't there to witness the exchanges I described, and could never fathom the emotions local people were feeling in the immediate aftermath wants to tell me I really didn't understand what I saw?

Do you realize how sanctimonious that is?

I witnessed someone being beaten on 9/11, an Egyptian guy in Jersey City, in full view of the smoke and debris that was obscuring most of lower Manhattan.

I was in a liquor store waiting to pay for a bottle of much-needed Jameson's on the worst day of my life when a young Arab guy ran up to the open door and yelled "EGYPT OWNS THIS COUNTRY!" People turned to look but most were still in a state of shock over the events earlier that day, no one even commented, but I could hear the guy repeating this line as he went door-to-door along the street. When I exited the shop he was on the sidewalk surrounded by a group of black men who were beating the holy living Jesus out of him.

Did I feel sorry for him? Not a whit.

Did I try to help him? Nope.

Was it wrong? Technically, yes.

Did he get what he deserved? Yes, he got exactly what he was looking for, and then some.

Seven years later and I haven't the faintest degree of empathy or sympathy for him.

My wife went through much of the same. She was one of the top interior designers in the huge Grand store in Moscow. When she finally received her green card and started looking for work in the US, she was very discouraged.

First off, never ever ever let her be tempted into doing the easy thing and working for Russian firms in the US. They are ghettos of low pay, no health insurance, and exploitation. I'm speaking in very general terms here, but in my experience most take advantage of illegal Russian immigrants or Russians who can't speak English or who simply lack confidence. I would even go so far as to caution against working for an American firm if her manager happens to be a Russian man.

So sue me.

Second, it sucks to be a new immigrant in this country. Everyone wants to exploit her. If she's offered a job, ask her about her colleagues. My wife had a job offer on her first interview, after her first day of work she discovered that all of her co-workers were illegal immigrants. No wonder they offered her no medical plan or vacation, and the only days off were NYs and xmas.

Lastly, if she's a true professional and loved her career, don't let her settle for anything else. She'll be earning money but ultimately she'll be miserable. Support her while she gets whatever training or accreditation she needs to resume her career here. She may have to start at the bottom of the ladder again, as my wife has had to do, and this will be frustrating, but she'll quickly catch up.

Hope this is helpful.

For those who aren't married and living with their Russian spouse, don't think that the wacky "alternative" opinions your significant other has are cute or endearing. Hearing a woman tell you that she caught a cold by sitting on a cold bench may seem amusing, but it's a whole other ball of wax when you're living together and medical issues arise.

Korat,

I won't comment on your accusations about this girl, only to say that I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the gist of your account was true; girls like this are all too common in the MOB world but most guys involved are afraid to look behind the mirrors.

That said, I think you should take a step back and analyze your own behavior. Don't you think it's odd that years after this woman screwed you over, you're still tracking her every move? Do you think you come off as rational when you pry into her personal life and seek out snitches like hospital workers and bank managers?

And most of all: do you really think anyone here believes you're doing it to protect other men? Here's a bulletin for you: you're doing it for yourself (although I'm sure on some level you know that).

Nadya may have screwed you over and part of your motivation is surely revenge, but no one would hang on this long unless they were lovesick. I've met guys like you before, and the unspoken motivation obvious to anyone but him is, "if I can't have her, no one else will." There's also the (ridiculous to anyone but you) notion that you are somehow responsible for her behavior because you "spoiled" her long ago, and thus feel a guilty responsibility to protect other guys from her. So noble of you! But the white armor you're flashing to everyone here is actually the emperor's new clothes; or better yet, the armor is a sad green mix of envy, jealousy, bitterness, and unrequited love.

And you accuse Kurt of living in a fantasy world???

One question: does your current "fiancee" know that you track your ex's every move and sabotage her attempts at scamming others? I'd bet my next paycheck that she has no idea about your crusade and no matter how much you've managed to deceive yourself about your motivations, you are wily enough to keep this off her radar because you know she'd dump you if she saw how obsessed you are with Nadya. Sound about right?

Dude, get over her, move on or you'll drown in your own bilious poison.

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http://www.totallyfreecrap.com/

A few questions:

If the chick loved the guy, but not the American economy, why didn't she just ask him to live in her home country?

Because for a guy whose relationship is grounded in fantasy it's a lot easier to attribute her indifference to him on cultural differences or other such nonsense