MrsAmera

Well if you actually read what I wrote you would have read that I wasn't comparing the Sahrawi to the drug militias. I was comparing the Polisario and AQIM to drug militias.

I've also consistently held in this discussion that I feel sorry for the Sahrawi - that they are stuck in the middle of this argument. I've also never said that Morocco's annexation was the best idea, only that independence for the region wouldn't truly be independence and that Algeria or some other forces would make it a puppet.

Also I knew about the Western Sahara loooong before I even knew any Moroccans.

I don't get what your last 2 posts have to do with the discussion. Who said they wouldn't serve if drafted? Vote? This all started because someone pointed out that while fantastic that this woman is getting her face fixed there are scores more injured and killed by American policies. HIT you took that reality to mean something else.

I have to argue that were the Polisario and AQIM to pull out of that region Morocco would have no problem letting the Sahrawi's reunite with their families. However opening that border is tantamount to the US opening up the southern border to be infiltrated (moreso) with the drug militia.s

Who said anything about hatred and venom?! Disagrement does not = hatred. You said " I am just glad there is someone else who understands that it's absolutely hypocritical to want to come to the USA to reap the benefits of everything we have and then at the same time to criticize our government". So "reaping the benefits" means keep your mouth shut?? And it's hypocritical to speak out against wrongs? The government runs on the premise of the input of the people. If we all keep our mouths shut then the system dissolves. One of the benefits is to open your mouth. I would think a little civics brush up might be in order.

I also am highly offended that any insinuation to my politcal viewpoints would be made based on my marriage. My family have been staunch political activists for decades, not to mention I've studied politics deeply, lived and worked in Washington DC and have seen policy creation, development and implementation first hand. If anything my husband is apolitical and really has very little to say about what goes on, aside from those things that impact our daily lives. I'm the one speaking out here, I'm the one that takes issue with what MY government does in MY name. I'm a citizen, it's my duty to do so.

I think we're talking about two different things. Of course any citizen should be willing to take up arms - but to me that does not mean that you have have to believe everything and support it hook, line and sinker. It's that concept of "If you're not with us your against us" that got us into a conundrum to begin with. There's a whole lot more grey than black and white.

I didn't realize I was presenting a high level analysis here. I think I also clearly stated that neither argument will equal what the Sahrawi want. Algeria has it's own agenda, as does Morocco. The Sahrawi are in the middle of a geo-political game. Just understanding the facts of the condition the Sahrawi are in lead to my comments that of course another country will step up to fill that power vaccum if they attain independence.

You don't have to be independent to have infastructure...the US South seceded from the Union and they had an infastructure. My point in this argument is that "Independence" for the Western Sahara is not really independence. The Polisario forcibly control the region and are brutal. Algeria backs the Polisario because of the reasons cited above. There are 500,000 people in the Western Sahara...a desert wasteland that happens to have mineral wealth and coastal access. Morocco has offered them autonomy but to remain a part of Morocco, Algeria/Polisario pushes a referendum with independence as an option. Everyone in this argument has an agenda. I certainly feel bad for the Sahrawi because really I don't think anyone in the argument is in favor of what's best for them, or what their wants are even. They are a pawn in this geo-political game.

Algeria supports the Polisario because "freedom" for the W. Sahara = access to the Atlantic for them. Economically, militarily and geographically positioning them better. Algeria has set itself in the eyes of the Sahrawi as an ally and friend, and a seperate country of W. Sahara would never be able to sustain itself without intensive outside assistance. Who do you think will step into that? Algeria, they've been positioning themselves as such. W. Sahara wouldn't accept Morocco or Mauritania in that capacity. Mali and Niger are in no position to offer support either. The only option would be Algeria. And Algeria has always planned on that.

Also, let's remember the Polisario/seperatists have also killed and imprisoned many Moroccan citizens/police/military in this endeavor. Morocco internally struggles with Polisario terrorists recruiting inside Morocco and carrying out small scale attacks.

Not believing every line that is fed to us by "leaders" does not = supporting enemies. It's that kind of logic that erodes civil rights and liberties in the US. I have to wonder if the founding fathers are rolling in their graves at the pass some people give to our leaders. They are representing us, if we don't agree with what they do we have to stand up to that.

The saddest part of this debate for me is that the people (Sahrawi) are being propped up and "supported" by the Polisario who don't want them to be free either. Their ultimate goal is to have control over that region. Algeria supports the Polisario because it would give them access to the Atlantic Ocean. If tomorrow Morocco gave up possession of the Western Sahara it would be a huge vaccum, because there is no infastructure, no sense of governance or even much industry. They would rely heavily on the outside countries. Without a doubt Algeria would step in and be a new colonial master in the region.

I guess you just have a different definition of what "defend and support" means.

Well then IMO they should start by questioning the Polisario and Algeria's support of that terrorist organization before laying it heavy on Morocco's "occupation".

I don't think you're getting that those two things are not mutually exclusive. There is a difference. I don't agree with the speed limit but that doesn't mean I break the law. We have something called loyal opposition it's a foundation of this country. You don't have to agree with it, but you still follow the laws/rules etc. Do you think that all Americans loved the Vietnam draft - he** no! Did they get drafted and do their service? Yes. I'm so tired of everyone having to waive the raw-raw flag to be considered American when a real American, a true "patriot" questions his government and isn't led blindly by leaders whose interests are often much more muddled than our own. I've worked with the federal government in Washington. Trust me they are all disconnected and it's a completely different ball game.

Oh boy.....where are we going with this?

I just have to say supporting the military and agreeing with military action are two different things. My BIL and cousins are all in the service and while I of course support them (because it's their job). I don't support US military action, or the action of soldiers and their commanders who are committing crimes under the guise of military action. If people don't question the military and government THAT is when we run into problems.

Also taking an oath saying you will bear arms doesn't mean you have to agree with everything the military/government does. I really dislike the fact that in order to be "patriotic" one must support and endorse all actions of the military and government when that is completely the reason why this country was founded. If the founders of the US had that same opinion, we would all be eating crumpets and sipping tea and subjugated. It is the duty of people in a democracy to question their leaders and those acting in their name.

Mmm could be but I know there were only about 24 people at my husband's oath ceremony last week, and we waited several weeks for that letter to come.

Thanks for the help. I did some research and also found that we could become the guardians of the child in Morocco (per Moroccan law) and then apply for him to come to the US completing the adoption. Morocco itself does not do adoptions but guardianships that can be obtained with a deceased father but living mother. I think I will need to consult an adoption lawyer as the child has not been abandoned per US rules.

My husband and I are considering bringing his nephew (12) to the US to live with us. His (the nephew) father died a few years ago and his mom is having a hard time. I've heard of people adopting their nieces/nephews and applying for immigration that way. Does anyone have any experience doing this? Would we have to actually adopt him or could we still apply for him to come here without adoption (since he has one living parent)?

Both my husband and I are USC. My husband brother and his wife also are USC, would it help or hinder us to have them on as co-sponsors?

I just saw you're in MN - assuming Bloomington office - did he have a heavy set female officer do the interview? If so, she's a witch and odds are good that she didn't pass him on the test. My husband had something similar with the letter happen. I waited and talked to her afterwards to try and straighten things out. She flat up lied to me about why she didn't pass him and when my husband went for his 2nd interview, the new interview lady couldn't understand why the 1st one didn't pass him. Frustrating. I think NickD's wife had the same lady with similar results too.

Good news is that you will get a letter either way.

Either you'll get a letter to come back in about 60 days to redo the test/interview OR you'll get the letter for the oath ceremony.

You also could try calling the number listed on the sheet for the interview - I found that they were very helpful at this stage in the process with what was going on.

well the form he got was wierd

they checked

X You will be given another opportunity to be tested on your ability to

ability to what?????

made sound like he did not pass test but interviewer said he did

Darlene

Although I didn't marry in Morocco from what I've read/heard you can expect the actual process to take about one month. There is lots of running around involved but since you will be based in Rabat/Sale it might be a little faster for you (less travel time)

1. He's sitting in front of the TV, what is on the screen?

CNN or watching an Arabic movie

2. You're out to eat; what kind of dressing does he get on his salad?

none, he likes it naked

Ranch

3. What's one food he doesn't like?

Pasta

4. You go out to eat and have a drink. What does he order?

Diet Coke

5. Where did he go to high school.

Ibn Khaldoun Academy

6. What size shoe does he wear?

9.5

7. If he was to collect anything, what would it be?

money? lol maybe shoes

8. What is his favorite type of sandwich?

Subway - whatever kind looks good

9. What would this person eat every day if he could?

Rghaif

10. What is his favorite cereal?

Honey Nut Cheerios

11. What would he never wear?

Western clothing (western like cowboy clothes)

12. What is his favorite sports team?

hmm...he's not picky here; maybe Barcelona?

13. Who did he vote for?

not yet - but he likes democrats

14. Who is his best friend?

Ahmed

15. What is something you do that he wishes you wouldn't do?

be crabby?

16. What is his heritage?

Moroccan

17. You bake him a cake for his birthday; what kind of cake?

almond

18. Did he play sports in high school?

soccer and boxing

19. What could he spend hours doing?

watching movies

20. What is one unique talent he has?

hmmm i dunno ...

Yes honestly having our son participate was so cool for him! My husband was surprised too because he hadn't hear the officer talking to him. We printed a bunch of pictures so he can take them to school tomorrow and share with his class about his experience. My husband volunteers as a parent-reader Monday mornings in his classroom too so the teacher asked him to talk to the class about becoming an American.

Many of my friends on Facebook know however just thought I would share that our Visa Journey is done. Today my husband had his oath ceremony, 5 years and 6 months after our initial application for his visa. In some ways it's hard to believe it's been so long and in others amazing we've come this far and can close this chapter of our lives. I can't wait to box up all the immigration paperwork and hide it away where I don't have to deal with it anymore!!! The ceremony itself was nice - about 24 people from like 15 countries. The officer was nice, it was a MUCH different experience than we've ever had in that building! Our son (6 year old) went with and the officer asked him if he would like to lead the pledge of alliegance. He got to go up in front with her and have his name called out and then do the Pledge. Very very exciting and memorable for him. I teared up a little during the ceremony because it was very moving. The officer also made it a point to point out that becoming an American is in no way asking anyone to give up who they are, where they come from and what they've been through but rather she hoped they would contribute their experiences to those Americans who have yet to experience the things they have. IT was a very nice speech. I was a little disapointed with how the names were called out and certificates handed out esp. since it was such a small group. Very fast and informal.

That's my last report on immigration Best of luck to everyone in whatever stage of the process you're at!

She took our original copy of our apartment lease too!! My husband tried to argue with her about it but she shut him up and asked him if he'd like to continue this process or re-file. This woman is terrible!

On a happier note - it's done. The ceremony was nice and small (about 24 people being sworn in). Our oldest son (6) went with and the officer doing the ceremony asked him if he would like to lead everyone in the Pledge. He was so proud and excited to get to be a part of it (even got to be called up by his name!)