PMartin37

Luckily, our rule of law isn't in any way based on "there is no evidence that didn't occur."

I added (as far as we know) because we don't know every single witness account. I don't have a law degree but I don't think there is any rule against new witnesses stepping forward if they saw anything. You just never know.

Brandishing is a very specific term. There is no evidence that occured.

Incidentally there is no evidence that didn't occur. (As far as we know)However, I wasn't implying he was acting like Yosemite Sam.

From your article:

Very different cases. This woman was convicted of going to retrieve a firearm in order to re-enter the situation that caused her (claimed) fear of grave bodily harm or death... No big surprise that both her stand your ground, and self-defense claims were rejected...

Agreed, she did show bad judgement in going over to her ex's home. She should have waited for law to arrive to safely handle the situation.

Things escalated due to her bad judgement and she felt fearful for her life so she fired her gun.

Anything sound familiar here? Yes they are different cases and different issues at play. But Zimmerman didn't commit a felony by aggressively pursuing Martin with his gun-no. He did make a bad judgement and took matters into his own hands, brandishing a gun in the process to protect himself when things escalated beyond his control. His wounds look like a girl fight scrap if you ask me...not even a black eye..come ON.

Check this out. This lady claims she fired a warning shot and invoked the stand your ground law for her defense. She got 20 YEARS. If Zimmerman gets to walk after firing a warning shot into Martin's chest... hmm.

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/news/nation_world/152151485.html?cmpid=15585797

I agree no one on a visitor visa or work visa should ever be allowed to adjust status. You can't tell me these people who come and marry while here on a visitor visa didn't know they weren't planning to marry long before they hit US soil. They should have to return to their home country and go thru the visa process and wait like the rest of us do. People who blatantly commit fraud like this should be banned. Just like people who come here on a k-1 and don't marry within the 90 days. Then stay with no status and either remain here illegally or marry someone else in the future(not the petitioner for the 129) and then adjust status with the new spouse. The system is broken and it makes me angry that the rest of us have to jump through hoops, while these people lie to get here.

You got that right! Those are the people that make it longer for the rest of us! You have an excellent point. I don't know why they don't make it impossible for that to happen in the first place? Seems it would be a wise allocation of resources to stop that in it's tracks so that train doesn't keep chugging down the road and holding us all up.

What planet do you live on? The same one you're on. I can move to my husband's country today. The issue I brought up was how LONG it would take to acquire citizenship in other countries. Based on some that I researched ( I haven't researched every country in the world and never claimed to) I found that the waiting process is generally longer and have different restrictions. Before we were married, I could go for a period of time, apply to stay, and never leave. Or not leave until I was ready. People do it in record numbers and it is relatively easy for young folks without jobs to do. No biggie. Incidentally, I cannot work without citizenship where my husband is and I would have to wait 7 yrs to even apply. Not everywhere is the same as your husband's country.

People are not generally punished there for entering the country (or even just TRYING) to enter the country legally.

I have every right to criticize our system. It is punative to those that do what is asked and lax with those who flaunt thir refusal to even TRY to follow the law. Our president's talk that suggests forgiveness for those who blantantly break the law while ignoring all the ones who are taxpaying voters absolutely puzzles me.

A also agree that no one should be allowed to adjust status from tourist or temporary worker EVER. If I, personally went to another city and married, you can be danged sure I'd return to my own home to collect my belongings and resolve my family and business situations as well as my responsibilities. If someone was an honest tourist or temp worker, they would need to return home for the same reason. That is a great time to file and follow the same process.

There is an effort to do away with the K-1 visa. Personally, after reading up on it, I agree fully. We used this because it was a toss-up and this seemed only marginally easier for us. For legitimate couples, I expect the decision is about equal. There are so many victims of fraud associated with that and it is heartbreaking. (I used to date a guy who had suffered because of that--once he got here, the sweet woman who was his childhood friend in Iran demanded a 70,000 pay-off or she'd turn him in for fraud. He refused and she called homeland security on him stating that he was a terrorist and abusing her. Yeah. He found out later that he was not her first "fiance". He spent more than the cost of a modest house in legal fees.)

Are any of Zimmerman's injuries death threatening? He was an ex-bouncer, after all, and outweighed the kid by 50 or 100 pounds. He had no problem throwing drunk women on their arses, or picking fights with alcoholic beverage control officers.

I'm not convinced the photos of that viscious pummeling whilst he was on top of Zimmerman are going to be heavy evidence of "life in danger". No black eyes...mild nicks on the back of his head. Not buying it. I think Martin discovered Zimmerman's gun and wanted to make a play for it and Zimmerman grabbed it and shot him maybe out of reflex? Maybe out of rage? The jury will decide that.

I got 3 year residency in Egypt through marriage.Was easy ...We did that so I didn't have to keep getting a visa every time i came to Egypt.Maybe make a petition and get all VJ members to sign it.Also friends and family to sign it .Just an Idea

Well now that's a policy I could definitely go for! lol I don't really see it happening here though. I wonder how they can do that honestly, I mean without any sort of background check, etc. or something of that nature?

Well it it far easier for us as US citizens to travel freely in most countries. I was surprised how easily a visitor visa to Jordan was obtained. I don't need any documentation other than my American passport to enter. In fact I am heading to Jordan tomorrow for a much needed, albeit short visit with my husband. The separation of his visa process is wearing on us .

I'll agree with you there about the visas. I applied for an Indian visa and was approved about 2weeks later. Only because you have to wait for snail mail to and from their processing facility.

Wow you're going tomorrow??! Travel safely and enjoy your visit! (F) :-) I know you will!

What do you call a hole in the chest?

That would be evidence of Zimmerman fighting for his life.

If you look at the jacket Zimmerman was wearing that night you would realize that he could have concealed 4 of those guns 2 crowbars and a raging hard on in broad daylight.

A gun? I suppose it would be possible for a certain amount of time.

A crowbar? Don't be ridiculous.

A raging ...? For Zimmerman? I don't imagine this would be a problem

To become a citizen of Jordan if you are not from an Arab country it is 15 years by naturalization if you maintain residence there, 5 years if you are from an Arab country, or it is automatic if your father is of Jordanian descent. If you marry a man from Jordan and you are of Arab descent you can apply for citizenship in 3 years, 5 years if you are not of Arab descent. When visiting Jordan you get a visitor visa at any point of entry that is good for 30 days, anything beyond 30 days you register with the police and the Ministry of foreign affairs and you can extend it for up to 6 months. If you want to stay longer than the 6 months you renew the visa through the Ministry of foreign affairs in Jordan. I will add that you do not need to apply ahead of time for a visitor visa. When I go to Jordan I just pay a fee of 30 Jordanian dinar at the airport and it's good for 30 days.

Thanks for that info! I was going in circles finding anything about marriage related immigration on the internet. So one year (even 2 yrs)for U.S. immigration is after all a drop in the bucket it seems. I am curious about the whole subject of immigration now lol I'm interested because of this forum and also to draw comparisons to our system. The whole thing is fascinating and frustrating at the same time.

Its very easy in Nigeria. And its a full fledged Passport or permanent resident status needed to work there. You got to figure most countries would want Americans to immigrate there its usually not that big of deal.

And yes that AP like Pakistan seems to be mandatory AP. But yet some get approved no AP. So who knows.

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What about the marriage visas there though? If I marry someone who is there with permanent resident status, how would I immigrate there?

Immigration journey just doesn't end at NOA1, in my opinion it ends at a successful POE. Others have argued it ends at successful AOS.

Doing your research, how many of the countries place folks in AP? HOnest question, I don't know.

Like OP stated later, this is not a criticism of our government but the frustration is in knowing that they could move faster if they wanted to.

Tell us what we need to do since for K1 we know the met at least once in two years, etc still ends up with denials for some folks.

I agree with you for IR1/CR1 couples it ends at the POE as far as being with your spouse to live here.

I am not sure about AP in other countries. They would probably call it something different anyways. I've looked at Jordan and India, and now I just looked at Nigeria. I can't find anything about becoming a permanent resident. Maybe you could help me out in that regard. This is what I found for Nigeria.

Like any other country, Nigeria takes the time to grant citizenship to foreigners that meet certain requirements. A main way for foreigners to obtain Nigerian citizenship is via 'naturalization', which requires the following - an individual must be at least 17 years that resided in Nigeria for at least 15 years, is of good character, plans to remain in Nigeria, is familiar with Nigerian language and customs, has a viable means of support, and has renounced previous citizenship. Another way is through 'registration' and this mostly applies to women (not men) married to a Nigerian citizenship. Of course, individuals with at least one Nigerian citizen for a parent can also become Nigerian citizens themselves. I don't find it easy at all to find information about it for any of those countries. For India, you have to wait 7 years to even apply for citizenship and then I have no idea how long it would take. I know there's a man that's been waiting 10+ years after marrying his wife there (who is a citizen). For Jordan I see nothing about it at all regarding marriage immigration ( I only checked because someone was complaining about waiting 5months!!! for a visa from the U.S.). In any case, I find that the immigration process according to research I've done is faster than most. The amount of marriage and fiance visa petitions they receive nationwide must be massive (much more than other countries- I'm trying for find a number on this) and the number people adjucating these cases is very limited. So I'm just guessing here that's why it seems to take so long. But in comparison, it's less time than others.

I think Bill's speculation sounds most probable - that the two of them got into a shoving match that escalated into a brawl that ended with both of them on the ground, but I have trouble believing that Martin, who weighed considerably less (40lbs), could have wrestled Zimmerman to the ground and hold him there for long. Perhaps when noticing Zimmerman's holstered gun on his side he tackled him to the ground, fearing for his life. Zimmerman then felt shooting Martin at that point was an act of self-defense. Then, when giving his statement to police, embellished a bit (head being bashed into cement) in order to try and convince the police that his life was really in danger, except the lead investigator wasn't buying it.

Do I need some glasses, or does anyone else NOT see any black eyes on Zimmerman in the evidence photos? My husband's eyes look darker than Zimmerman's around them due to ethnicity or maybe if he's tired. This is all that I see when I look at Zimmerman's supposedly black eyes. There's no swelling around his eyes. When you have a black eye from getting socked in it, it swells- and usually pretty quickly. It appears to me, unless they have more incriminating photos showing injuries.. the defense is going to have a good time proving this as self defense. Also, I agree with Bill that those little scratches I would bet were inflicted by Trayvon, hence the blood under his fingernails.

What are you basing the 5 months on? Many people have been in the process for years. Also you can gain Nigerian pretty easily (you did say to pick a random country).

I was basing the 5months on the time it typically takes to only approve the petition. After that the length depends upon the consulate and whether they place it into AP or not. That is what I find causes the most delay in many cases here in VJ. How does the process work in Nigeria? How long would it take typically timewise? I would imagine if you're already a Nigerian citizen it's easier to get the marriage visa for your spouse (as it is here) I know in other countries I've tried to find info about immigration, it's either impossible, is very lengthy , or I just can't find anything how to attempt it.

My husbands country Nigerian I am already a permanent resident citizen. My marriage gave me all those privileges. There is no overstay ban cuz I am married to him. And my intention wasn't to criticize the system to the government but to open their eyes make them aware. maybe than some changes for the good can happen.

And I have it in perspective because just less that 5 years ago these same petitions were taken years to get approved. So progress is happening. Just needs a deeper look. Some guidelines need to beset. Just like they give the list of evidence that can help to prove "Bona Fide Relationship". Why not a list of what is expected of a petitioner as far as visiting how long how many times a year. Do you want us to talk everyday, email, skype, IM what is better.

is it not allowed to marry your first meet face to face. Where to get married how to get married what is accepted. these things have denied and have got people approvals. There needs to be some ground rules instead of us guessing because Sally and John did it this way in Canada we do it in Kenya and they get approved we get denied why. Just examples.

I understand what you mean and I wasn't really meaning that you directly were criticizing (maybe some others though). I'll certainly agree this process is a bit intimidating and definitely frustrating. That's why I have to constantly remind myself that it's really a drop in the bucket ( a year or so) to wait to spend a lifetime with someone. I agree criteria alot of times are unclear and thank God this website is here for us- it makes it easier on all of us. It surely is frustrating that some get approved while others do not. But we never really know for sure the whole stories about people (their history, etc.) The fact that some people abuse the system, makes it harder for all of us- that applies to most everything in life and yes it's maddening. It is torture to be away from the one you love.

Don't physically attack someone carrying a gun and chances are you will be fine.

If some strange man was following me in the dark of night and then proceeded to stalk me and demand what I'm doing in my own neighborhood, he'd be in for a shock. I'd likely force him to put my skittles where the sun don't shine until the cops arrived.

Very generic we see what their goal is> oh well i tried. they probably looking me up and burning my petition. LOL

I am in the same situation as everyone here. In fact, I anticipate my wait will be longer than most. It's not going to get easier and I accept this. But let's also remember while we are criticizing the U.S. Immigration system, let's consider how long it would take if an American citizen wishes to immigrate to any other country in the world (just pick a random country). I'm willing to wager it's longer than 5mos. or even a year for pretty much any of them IF AT ALL. My husband is in India right now. How long do you suppose I'd have to wait to immigrate there to be with him? I'd look like Mother Theresa by the time I was approved IF ever! lol

So, let's keep this in perspective a bit, that's all I'm saying.

Incidentally... I haven't seen one photo from the evidence that suggests to me black eyes. Where are his black eyes? He was supposed to be beaten severely suggesting he was in fear for his life.

He would have dropped both, in fact the girlfriend heard the phone hit the ground. The ground was wet which explains why the bottle would not break (i've dropped one of those bottles on asphalt btw). Whilst he definately could have clawed at Zimmerman, some damage like his nose is consistent with punches. Also a witness said Martin used "martial arts like" attacks. One reason I have trouble with seeing Zimmerman as the first attacker is that there is no damage on Martin's body to indicate he had taken a punch, kick what have you. I don't think martin released Zimmerman and got up because its not consistent with the ballistics (between 1 and 18").

I also don't think Zimmerman ever intended to kill Martin as it is illogical with the police coming.[/b] The first witness available after the incident said Zimmerman's first words were "Call the police. I shot this guy in self-defense". That sounds like a deliberate choice of words IMO. Through Martin's phone you can hear Zimmerman say something along the lines of "Hey what are you doing here" Followed by a bump- according to Martin's gf testimony- perhaps he was shoved? which would knock his cell phone out of his hand and indicate MARTIN was being attacked first.had Martin replied and said I live here my guess is it would have ended there. Did the THC impair his judgement?

Re read your post. I mean Iv'e owned guns my entire life and after reading your post I wanted to post something like "are you for real" but instead I just posted that jpeg. I mean after reading some of your post it leaves me saying; "####### are they on?"

You seem to want to believe that I'm some sort of liberal against guns. I have nothing against protecting oneself. I considered owning one myself when I was single and lived alone. All of my brothers own guns for protection and hunting and so forth. But they're not mental cases like Zimmerman. And there's alot of evidence out there that indicates to me that he is in fact off his rocker. I think it IS a problem for someone with his history of nutcase, aggressive behavior to be toting a gun around.

Maybe, maybe, maybe....

But why do you say it was clearly visible? I wore a pistol IWB on my side years before I switched to appendix. I never had a problem with flashing my pistol...

Edited to add......why would you say it would be clearly visible under these circumstances?

If it was worn on his side, I would imagine it could be hard to miss, if there was a "martial arts style" fighting as one witness said- whatever that means (I doubt either one of them looked like Jackie Chan), but nonetheless, under those circumstances it would become apparent.

Are you really an adult, or a 13yr old playing with your Mom's computer?

That holster isn't bulky at all. It could have been positioned anywhere on his right side, from small of the back, to appendix carry- and either positioned inside the waistband or inside the belt. The pistol is a Kel-Tec PF9. It's extremely compact and slimmer than any other pistol in this caliber. No magic here.

If it was positioned on his side (in other words clearly visible) this would give a person cause to be completely terrified if they're confronted in the dark by that individual wouldn't you say? Now if the person were to shove you, causing you to drop your phone, that would make you want to stand your ground right? Maybe try to fight for your life even?