Dagnammit

Well congratulations! So finish the story and tell us what you ultimately sent in reponse to the RFE. Obviously it worked.

So I sent in my Subject Access and a cover letter like you suggested, giving more details and explaining that I was never charged and this was all the information I had, and had tried to get more but only received the RFE on January 12. I was really sweating it but they seemed to be all right with it after all, PHEW!

Thanks to everyone for your help, got the email yesterday that my card is in production, WOO HOO!

Hi all, one last question: am about to send my response tomorrow, how would you recommend posting it? Priority, Certified, Signature Required, what? I feel like every time we've sent things to USCIS the way we posted it wasn't the most effective way.

This is going to the USCIS California Service Center, P.O. Box 10590, Laguna Niguel, CA.

Did you just call me OLD!

Hope it all works out very soon for you, this is obviously causing you unnecesary stress!

Ha, no no no, just meant 12 as an age, relatively speaking... you were so young, it shouldn't count against you now. I will chalk this foot in mouth up to USCIS stress!

You could always consider making an affidavit to accompany any true copy verifying the veracity of the copy; the affidavit could then be notarized. A notary in NYC would be able to take care of that for you.

Smart thinking, thanks Honey Crumpet

My Subject Access report arrived today, I asked for all arrest details but it contains no info that I didn't already have - just lots of useless reference numbers. I am hoping that it will be enough since I was only 12 at the time and that was a long long time ago!

Good luck!

12 is so long ago, I bet you'll be fine. Best of luck to you!

I would send notarized copies, not the originals. I am lucky in always working somewhere with a public notary but if you don't just get good copies and find a public notary. Personally, I think (and hope) your green card will just turn up in the middle of all of this mess, keep checking the USCIS status as they don't always email you!

I am now going through naturalization and still waiting to see if I get an RFE for the arrest details and court records. I ordered them a few weeks ago so I have no idea what I will receive or whether they will turn up before my interview. I like you made one mistake (when I was 12). I was charged, pleaded guilty to causing about £20 of damage (which I paid back), I was not convicted .

Ah, good call. Will ask the wife if she knows anything about getting something notarized here (NYC). I just checked Wikipedia (probably not most reliable source but) and it says in NY state, public notaries are "strictly forbidden to certify 'true copies' of documents."

Here's hoping your report arrives before your interview, and that you have smooth sailing the rest of your naturalization process.

Do you still have the original police report and Subject Access Report? I gave copies to the Embassy in London and sent notarized copies with my AOS.

It seems strange that they would be so interested - I think that they made a mistake by not understanding that a caution means that you don't go to court. I only had police certificate and subject access letter (which was just a letter from New Scotland Yard containing charge, court date and outcome). The information that they are asking for is normally required for naturalization, not AOS.

Did you request the arrest report with the Subject Access? If not, apply for it now (you will need it at some point).

Assuming you didn't omit any information that you considered to be "stepped down" such as getting into trouble as a juvenile you shouldn't have a problem.

Point out that you were cautioned and released which meant that you were not charged with the offence and did not go to court. Notarize any documents that you send and follow Nich/Nick's advice.

I am sure you will be fine, there is no way this crime would prevent AOS.

Good luck!

Thanks for your quick response, Darren. Have not applied for the arrest report, will look in to this immediately. We still have one original SA and police certificate, which we will send with the RFE response. No info omitted, this was my only crime -- it just gets more and more regretful as the years go on, unfortunately. If only I had foreseen falling in love with an American (among other things)! Will follow your and Nich-Nick's advice and cross our fingers this doesn't prevent us from AOS. Thank you both so much, will let you know how it goes.

Well I hope it either explains what you have is all there is or buys you some time. And I re-read the form and it does say ever committed a crime in or out of the US so I was wrong. You needed to report it.

I'm not very versed in crimes so wish somebody else from the UK that had something to explain on their police record would say what they included. Hey I just thought of somebody who's been active again in the naturalization forum. He's very smart and posted recently he was arrested when he was 9 years old or something like that. He did AOS easily so maybe ask him. His name is Darren and comes from Cambridge. Send him a private message. Here he is http://www.visajourney.com/forums/user/48120-darren-and-crissy/

Thank you, I will write him now!

I'm just a VJ member with no legal background or expertise. But I would respond to the RFE in writing and send a copy of the RFE notice with it. Address the envelope with a notation on the outside "Response to RFE" to it gets routed properly. Send with delivery confirmation, Priority mail, etc. It may not be what they asked for, but you can at least respond prior to Feb 1 so they don't think you are ignoring it.

Write your letter so it is concise. Things I would include are--

• The arrest in question was {date],in the United Kingdom for stealing a pack of cigarettes worth $4.95 when you were ___ years old (if a teen.) (or ____ years ago if you were an adult) Don't mention drunkeness if it's not on the report.
  
• You were charged with [name of crime], paid for the cigarettes, and were released without further fine, going to court, or serving time in jail. A caution was put on your record.
  
• You provided the required documents available on the case to the consulate officer who interviewed you at the US Embassy in London, England for a K1 Fiance visa. After reading the report and discussing the incident, he concluded that you were not inadmissable to the United States.
  
• Because the case did not go before a judge, there are no [take some words from the RFE] documents that I can provide. Everything the United Kingdom has on file has been provided on the police report dated [date] and the Subject Access Report dated [date]. There are no further documents to provide for consideration.
  
• The only original documents are in the file which came from London and were turned over when you entered the United States. The USCIS should already have those originals in your A-file. You can get more originals of the same documents they have on file, but it will take 40 days according to the Association of Chief Police Officers in The United Kingdom.
  

Sum it up with-- I received this RFE notice for the first time on [date] with only with ___ days to respond. Please advise me if you would like for me to get more original copies of the documents you already have in my A-file and if I can be granted 60 days extension to get those from the United Kingdom. I have never been in trouble except for this one incident. Please inform me of anything I can do to keep a $5.00 theft in my past from separating me from my US citizen wife.

Include something at the end like "I certify under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States that the above is a true statement based on all information of which I have knowledge."

That's about all I have in the way of ideas. Take a copy of the response to your infopass appointment.

Thank you so, so much for this. We are very panicky and scared and not being able to get any concrete advice from anyone has made it so much worse. I really appreciate your response and will do just this.

Because you sent the subject access and brought it to their attention. It was not needed for AOS, but you waved an arrest in their face voluntarily. Only people already living in the US on another visa (like work)would send in about crimes committed in the US.

Found it: part 3, section C of the I-485 asks "Have you EVER, in or outside the United States, been arrested, cited, charged, indicted, convicted, fined, or imprisoned for breaking or violating any law or ordinance, excluding traffic violations?"

Of course I checked yes, since I have been arrested, and also because I knew that my police certificate and subject access form were in my file. I included the SA again as an answer to any potential follow-up questions. This seemed like common sense. What should I have done instead?

Because you sent the subject access and brought it to their attention. It was not needed for AOS, but you waved an arrest in their face voluntarily. Only people already living in the US on another visa (like work)would send in about crimes committed in the US.

Ah, #######. I don't remember the exact wording, but there was some question on the I-485 about past arrests, so we included the police certificate and subject access again. I thought this was the right thing to do.

The original is in your K1 file from London turned in at POE and should now be matched up with you AOS file. Does it say the charges, and the details of how the case was handled? (I've not seen a subject access report to know what it would contain.)

It's very brief, just the facts ma'am. Has the date, place and time, reason for arrest, my vital stats, and that a caution was given and charges were dropped. (At work right now with just the RFE, not the SA, so will look when I get home tonight and copy exactly what it says.)

Infopass is good. Yes the exact wording of the RFE would be useful.

RFE says:

"Please submit the information requested below.

COURT DISPOSITIONS: Department of Homeland Security records reflect that the applicant has been arrested and/or charged for at least one crime. As such, the applicant, must submit certified copies of the court records, identifying the complaint, disposition, and sentence for any and all arrests, even if the arrest has been expunged. Each final disposition should be obtained from the court where the hearing took place. The documentation must be original or certified copies. Certified copies must include a court seal stamp.

If a court action HAS NOT taken place by the arresting agency, the applicant must submit a certified letter from the arresting agency indicating the final disposition of the arrest.

If the court disposition is not available, the applicant must obtain a certified letter from the court stating that there is no record. The applicant may NOT submit a police clearance of a photocopy. The documentation must be original or certified copies. Certified copies must include a court seal stamp.

If the applicant was granted diversion, he/she must submit court records that identify the charge and whether he/she plead guilty to the charge, or admitted guilt, prior to diversion being granted. Records must also include the final disposition (dimissed or convicted) and the sentence. The documentation must be original or certified copies. Certified copies must include a court seal stamp.

To obtain the court disposition, the applicant will be required to provide the arresting agency case number in order to obtain the court case number. The applicant must provide the case number to the appropriate court clerk to obtain the final court disposition for each arrest.

If the applicant has any other arrests/charges, it is necessary that he/she follow the same instructions as described above and submit the required documentation.

ARREST REPORTS: In addition to the required final court dispositions, the applicant must submit the arrest report for each arrest indicated above. Arrest reports are prepared by the arresting officer and give a detailed narrative description of the activities that resulted in the arrest and charges. These can be obtained by contacting the police department that actually performed the arrest and indication the date of arrest and the name given to the arresting officer at the time of the arrest. If the arresting agency does not have the arrest report, the applicant must obtain a certification of non-existence on that arresting agency's letterhead."

I called the MPS last Friday and talked to someone who told me that the only thing they could send me was a subject access report, which I already have. I asked if it would help if I came in person to request further documentation and they told me not to bother, it wouldn't do any good. If I could even figure out what to ask for or if they'd give it to me, I'm sure I'd have to go through the channels that require me waiting 40 days for a response (which is standard when dealing with the MPS/info from the PNC we learned), and I don't have that time now. I am so frustrated and upset. I don't want to have my AOS denied because of this. And if it is, how do I go about rectifying it for when I reapply?

Hiya, I've about this issue posted before in the AOS forum but now as events have unfolded my questions are more UK centric and was wondering if anyone here might have some insight or info for me.

I am from London and now live in NY, AOSing from a K-1 fiance visa. We got married last winter and sent away our AOS application in the spring, USCIS received it, got my work and travel authorization early this summer as well as notice that our case was forwarded to the CSC (which typically means quicker approval/no interview, according to what we'd heard) and have been waiting for the green card ever since. Signed up for email and text updates but only ever got the ones about them receiving the application way back when. Have read that it can take six months or more for the green card to come through, and besides, could work and travel, so have just been waiting patiently all this time until decided to check USCIS.gov on a whim on December 12 and saw they sent us an RFE on November 11! We have been at the same address all this time, and have never received an RFE in the mail or any text or email saying they sent one.

Called USCIS the next day (Dec 13) and spoke to a supervisor, and was told they would resend the RFE and it should arrive within 15 days. (It arrived January 10). Also made an INFOPASS appt for the soonest I could, which was Dec 28. At INFOPASS, they sent me to an office upstairs where I dealt with the first very helpful human in the flesh in this entire process. He looked at my paperwork and said that everything looked in order, and that he couldn't see what the RFE (that we still haven't received) is for, but that he did show that our case was moved to be adjucated on December 16. This would have been three days after I called on the 13th to say we hadn't received the RFE they mailed November 11. (According to people on the forum, this meant it had been sent for approval or interview.) He gave me a form email to send out to USCIS that says we still had not received the RFE from either date, and if they needed any further information from us to contact us. He seemed to think this meant that someone else looked at my case when they got the notice to re-send the RFE, that person decided the RFE might not matter, and that I'd receive my green card soon. So sent the form email, called them twice to make sure they'd marked down that I'd sent it, and went back to waiting.

Then got the RFE in the mail, FINALLY, last week, January 10. Almost a full month since we lodged the complaint that it hadn't arrived, and two months after they initially sent it. It says our response is due Feb 1. They are requesting court dispositions and arrest reports. I was arrested in 2004 for stealing cigarettes (while drunk, I was young and foolish, a one time thing, and paid for them after being arrested), given a caution, charges dropped, no court date. For the K-1 visa process I of course got my my police certificate and subject access form, which stated that no charges were pressed and a caution was given. My interviewer at the London Embassy asked about it briefly during my interview, and when I explained he said, "But it never happened again, right?" and I said this was correct and he breezed right through and that was that. I sent in the subject access form again (a copy, not the original) with our AOS package. I'm not sure why they're suddenly interested in this, but the papers they want 1) don't exist, as there was no court date, and 2) in the time it's taken them to finally get this bloody RFE to me, I don't have time to get anything from the MPS or PNC in London stating that no records exist due to no charges being pressed, etc, because their standard turn around time is 40 days from receipt. This is quite the pickle and I am beyond frustrated.

If I'd received this RFE back in November, when they claimed to have originally sent it, I'd still have a hell of a time trying to get the papers that the American government requires that I don't think the English government actually produces in such a situation. I imagine this is all because I sent a copy instead of an original, and some stickler saw it and decided to make things more complicated and asked for more details. But now I have two weeks, basically, and nothing useful can be done. I am so upset if someone decides to deny my AOS because of this, even if it means I can re-apply (and pay the fee again).

Have made another INFOPASS appointment for Thursday this week, but was wondering if anyone here had ever heard of a situation like this, or had any advice as to what we should send them by Feb 1? Would it help if I type out exactly what the RFE is asking for?

Another thing that still confuses me is that on our Dec 27 Infopass appt, he said he showed our case had been moved to be adjudcated on Dec 16. The consensus here was that adjudcated meant interview or approval. Did it perhaps just mean it had been moved to have the RFE re-sent? Does this make any sense to anyone?

They won't RFE twice for the same thing. If she doesn't reply correcting they will deny her So I'd make an INFOPASS to find out exactly what would be accepted.

Thanks both for your responses. Have made InfoPass for week from today. Last time I went the man told me our case had been moved to be adjudicated, so let's see what we learn ("learn") this time.

Also thought maybe we could just send them confirmation from the MPS that those sort of UK records aren't available, but I doubt we could even get our request to the MPS and get their repsonse back in time to answer the RFE. There's typically a 40 day wait on anything from the MPS, and we now have two and half weeks. So discouraged about this. Thought we were so close, just waiting by now!

UPDATE: Received the RFE in the mail yesterday, January 10, despite them being notified we didn't receive it by December 13. It says our response is due Feb 1. They are requesting court records. I was arrested in 2004 for stealing cigarettes (while drunk, I was young and foolish, a one time thing, and paid for them after being arrested), given a caution, charges dropped, no court date. For the K-1 visa process I of course got my my police certificate and subject access form, which stated that no charges were pressed and a caution was given. My interviewer at the London Embassy asked about it briefly during my interview, and when I explained he said, "But it never happened again, right?" and I said this was correct and he breezed right through and that was that. I sent in the subject access form again (a copy, not the original) with our AOS package. I'm not sure why they're suddenly interested in this, but the papers they want 1) don't exist, as there was no court date, and 2) in the time it's taken them to finally get this bloody RFE to me, I don't have time to get anything from the MPS or PNC in London stating that no records exist due to no charges being pressed, etc, because their standard turn around time is 40 days from receipt. This is quite the pickle and I am beyond frustrated.

If I'd received this RFE back in November, when they claimed to have originally sent it, I'd still have a hell of a time trying to get the papers that the American government requires that I don't think the English government actually produces in such a situation. I imagine this is all because I sent a copy instead of an original, and some stickler saw it and decided to make things more complicated and asked for more details. But now I have two weeks, basically, and nothing useful can be done. Are they going to deny me for this?! And if so, can I re-apply?

So I check our status today on uscis.gov and now it says "On January 4, 2012, we mailed a notice requesting additional evidence or information in this case I485 APPLICATION TO REGISTER PERMANENT RESIDENCE OR TO ADJUST STATUS." January 4! After requesting them to re-send on Dec 13! And going in for InfoPass on Dec 28 and the guy saying it showed it was moved to be adjudicated. WTH?! If this is a re-send of the original RFE supposedly mailed Nov 11 that we never received, we should be receiving it about two weeks before it's due. Great. Still no idea what it's for or if anyone at USCIS is on the same page. Very bad mood about this.

Adjudicated means approved or sent for interview.

Well that's wonderful albeit confusing news! I guess we send this email like the InfoPass man instructed, and then if the second RFE ever does show up, do we give them what it asks for? Has anyone ever heard of anything like this happening before, getting approved before an RFE is answered? So strange.

So had InfoPass this morning. They sent me to an office upstairs where I dealt with the first very helpful human in the flesh in this entire process! He looked at my paperwork and said that everything looked in order, and that he couldn't see what the RFE (that we still haven't received) is for, but that he did show that our case was moved to be adjucated on December 16. This would have been three days after I called on the 13th to say we hadn't received the RFE they mailed November 11. He gave me a form email to send out to USCIS that says we still have not received the RFE from either date, and if they need any further information from us to contact us. He seemed to think this meant that someone else looked at my case when they got the notice to re-send the RFE, that person decided the RFE might not matter, and that I'd receive my green card soon. Does this seem plausible? What exactly does adjucation mean here? If anyone can weigh in I'd be grateful.

Try not to panic. My husband's case was forwarded to the CSC also (which many on here say is code for "no interview" green card) and we received an RFE after the case was forwarded. We didn't frontload the application.. no pics, nothing extra, just what USCIS requests. My worry was that we didn't put enough proof, extra stuff etc... in there. However,in the end, my husband forgot to sign one document. Simple as that. No big deal. The case is back on track and we expect approval soon or possibly an interview appointment. I know you are nervous, but try hard to not worry.. it's not worth it.

Still haven't received new RFE in the mail. InfoPass appointment is tomorrow morning. If they gave us a 90 day deadline when they originally sent it, we're almost 30 days away from it now.

This is so frustrating.

Ok - so they just sent it to CSC - they do this all the time.

What center did you send it to? what state are you in?

We are in New York. Submitted the I-485 to Chicago Lockbox in the spring. They transferred our case to the CSC back in June, and that's who I assumed sent the RFE, so I'm a little confused by that email. Have an InfoPass meeting on December 28, and otherwise just waiting to hear from anyone or get the RFE in the mail. Really hope it comes before the holidays and that it doesn't require something time-consuming.

First - Relax.

You are taking the proper steps - wait for the INFOPASS meeting (if you made it) or wait for the re-send of the RFE.

Second - go over your copies of everything you sent for the AOS - compare it with the guides/instructions to see if you made a mistake, or miss something. Check your math on the 864, check your forms for mistakes.

(BTW - have someone else that didn't fill out the forms check them - if you made the mistake in the first place, 9 out of 10 times you will not see the mistake on second look)

Thanks Bobby+Umit and ceadsearc. Trying to remain calm and hopeful and do whatever I can.

Just got this email from USCIS:

"After careful review of your request, it has been determined that your issues will be best addressed by the USCIS office having jurisdiction over your case. Therefore, we have taken the liberty of forwarding your service request, to the California Service Center.

If you have any further questions, please call the National Customer Service Center at 1-800-375-5283."

That number is the one I called this morning. I suppose now I try and call the CSC, or wait for them to contact me?

Sorry to keep replying to my own thread but I called back again, got a supervisor, and he was no further help. Told me they couldn't do anything but resend and once I'd received the RFE and saw what it was for and what the deadline was, I could call again, but that they'd probably make their decision on the information they received by that date.

I am sick about this. I don't even know what it's for! Really hope it's something that I can get a quick turnaround on. I have followed every instruction and demand to a T thus far and the possibility that I could get denied now for something beyond my control is sickening. If anyone could give me any tips or suggestions they would be most appreciated.

I've never heard of an extension but you would be denied without prejudice, meaning you would be able to file a motion to reopen or file again.

I would call first thing tomorrow, make sure to speak to an immigration officer, and see if you can figure out what is going on. Also, if you haven't already, make sure your address is correct with USCIS - even if you have received stuff there before, verify it with them and make sure your name is in your mailbox so they can resend it if needed.

Ok, called first thing and got a live person (but not a supervisor), and she said they can resend the RFE and it should arrive within 15 days (which puts us at Christmas), but no extra time will be granted. So now I'll be 45 days out, and if the original due date was 87 days from Nov 11, that's eating up about half of my reply time. And if they're wanting something from the UK, that's not enough time for me to send away and ask for it and them send it back in time for me to submit, especially with the holidays. Are there other courses of action for me? Call back again and ask again for a supervisor? She wouldn't transfer me to anyone else.

Also, aside the point, but isn't it a little strange to get an RFE after it's been transferred to the CSC and I got work and travel authorization ages ago?

When you call, make sure you ask for a supervisor who will be an immigration officer. The person you talk to first is a call center rep.

You generally get 87 days to respond to an RFE. If you don't adequately respond in that time your AOS will be denied.

And god forbid we don't get whatever they need back to them in time and my AOS is denied (god forbid x1000), can I then re-apply, or appeal? Will I be deported within 30 days? I am freaking out here. I've jumped through all the hoops and was just waiting to hear back, this has really thrown me...

When you call, make sure you ask for a supervisor who will be an immigration officer. The person you talk to first is a call center rep.

You generally get 87 days to respond to an RFE. If you don't adequately respond in that time your AOS will be denied.

That's what I'm worried about... if I've lost 30+ days here already, and they want something that's going to take 30 days or more to get and then get back to them, I don't want to be in danger of having my AOS denied when I never received their RFE in the first place! I saw on another post that perhaps they'd require me to submit a written statement saying we never received the RFE and asking for an extension, has anyone ever heard of anything like that before?