Alabama Supreme Court first in nation to defy federal court gay marriage order

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

So what?

Glad you asked!

So, there are 37 states, including Alabama, where same sex marriage is 'legal'. This means that there are still 13 states in the union where it is not. In June of this year, the US Supreme Court is expected to make a ruling on whether or not a state constitution can ban same sex marriage. This is a REALLY BIG DEAL.

Why?

Because in thirteen states, same sex couples, whether married in another state or not, have no marital rights. They cannot file state income tax together. They face difficulties both being the parents of the same children--they must, at great expense, adopt their own children in cases where, for example, one female partner carries the child during their marriage via sperm donor and they intend to raise the child together--this is NOT the case for an opposite sex couple and adoption may cost tens of thousands of dollars that would be much better spent on raising the child and looking after the child. They are not considered family to their own spouse by hospitals and must therefore spend a great deal of money on legal fees to have living wills, power of medical attorney and power of attorney papers drawn up--and these are often overturned by homophobic families' lawyers! They also do not have the same rights of inheritance as opposite sex married couples.

These are major issues, but there are multitudes of others, some small and some large. These are a huge problem for people.

Why not move out of state, you ask, to somewhere where your union is legal? It's not always that simple. Military families, academic families, families in certain other industries do not always have the choice of where to live--if my wife and I wanted to leave Texas, she would have to abandon her career right now and she is not at a point in it where she has the choices that someone with more seniority would have. She has to live where she got the best offer. Sometimes there are other concerns such as having to take care of an ill or elderly family member.

So why is Alabama pulling this b.s. scary? Because this summer, 13 states are likely to get marriage equality by a Supreme Court ruling. If other states take ideas from Alabama, this could get messy. The Supreme Court will end up more involved. The federal government may have to call in the National Guard. If this happens? There is likely to be bloodshed. We will get our equality, but at a cost that we would much, much rather avoid.

So here's hoping Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee and Texas don't take a page from Alabama's books and throw a tantrum. Because when states throw tantrums, people die and no one wants that.

[JohnR! 5,495]

That is true but on a very positive note there are many or us who support equality for all. There is a wide spectrum of supporters outside the LGBT community that does and will continue to march for equality. You must not forget that 50 years later racism is alive and well in our country, as evidence that laws can't change ignorance, bigotry and ignorance, so the important thing is to win on the legal side and let the less aware fall by the wayside and wallow in their irrelevance and obsolescence.

Well, actually, GLBTQIA folks have been marching for decades. So yeah, we are. That being said, it's not quite as extreme as Selma, fortunately. We're still denied rights, but we're not denied the right to vote towards our treatment. The trouble is less that and more that, as a minority that takes up about 10% or less of the population, on our own we have no hope of effecting change. We need allies. We need to challenge unjust rulings in order to effect change. This is less like Selma and more like Loving v. Virginia. Both important civil rights cases, but very different.

The comparison to slavery is not about us being enslaved but about the fact that popular vote was not going to overturn laws allowing slavery. The majority supported slavery. The minority needed rights. Popular vote was not going to help that minority.

Edited March 7, 2015 by JohnR!

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

That is true but on a very positive note there are many or us who support equality for all. There is a wide spectrum of supporters outside the LGBT community that does and will continue to march for equality. You must not forget that 50 years later racism is alive and well in our country, as evidence that laws can't change ignorance, bigotry and ignorance, so the important thing is to win on the legal side and let the less aware fall by the wayside and wallow in their irrelevance and obsolescence.

Yup. I am very glad that we have allies. I am glad that there are lawyers willing to take our cases. Very, very glad. It's just that popular vote cannot be used to determine the rights of minorities, for exactly the reasons you state--racism still exists. Eventually, with enough legal stuff backing us, we'll at least have on paper equality and that's a thing we can hold up against bigotry, at least, though as things like the DOJ findings in Ferguson show us, the law is only as good as the people enforcing it...

[JohnR! 5,495]

Civil Rights will always trump popular vote, even in those instances where popular vote is used as a means to delay the inevitable. We all saw it in California and other states, and we'll continue to see it as states continue to fall in the marriage equality march. Quite possibly Alabama will open the floodgates that will settle the matter once and for all, in the same manner the passing of Prop 8 opened the gates to get the Feds and SCOTUS involved. Sometimes an apparent defeat turns out to be prelude to an overwhelming victory.

It was true in Seneca Falls in the 1840's, Alabama in the 1960s, Manhattan in the late 1960s and remains true across this nation today.

Yup. I am very glad that we have allies. I am glad that there are lawyers willing to take our cases. Very, very glad. It's just that popular vote cannot be used to determine the rights of minorities, for exactly the reasons you state--racism still exists. Eventually, with enough legal stuff backing us, we'll at least have on paper equality and that's a thing we can hold up against bigotry, at least, though as things like the DOJ findings in Ferguson show us, the law is only as good as the people enforcing it...

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

Civil Rights will always trump popular vote, even in those instances where popular vote is used as a means to delay the inevitable. We all saw it in California and other states, and we'll continue to see it as states continue to fall in the marriage equality march. Quite possibly Alabama will open the floodgates that will settle the matter once and for all, in the same manner the passing of Prop 8 opened the gates to get the Feds and SCOTUS involved. Sometimes an apparent defeat turns out to be prelude to an overwhelming victory.

It was true in Seneca Falls in the 1840's, Alabama in the 1960s, Manhattan in the late 1960s and remains true across this nation today.

Very true. I'm just really hoping that this doesn't all end in bloodshed. As much as I want the same equality as any immigrant married to an American, I don't want people to get hurt for it. The Supreme Court decision on the whole matter is expected in June, somewhere close to the two year anniversary of DOMA falling. I'll never forget DOMA falling and I'll never forget this falling.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I am sure that in the future our kids' children will look back at this and shake their heads in the same manner we shake ours at the causes for Loving v. Virginia.

Very true. I'm just really hoping that this doesn't all end in bloodshed. As much as I want the same equality as any immigrant married to an American, I don't want people to get hurt for it. The Supreme Court decision on the whole matter is expected in June, somewhere close to the two year anniversary of DOMA falling. I'll never forget DOMA falling and I'll never forget this falling.

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

I am sure that in the future our kids' children will look back at this and shake their heads in the same manner we shake ours at the causes for Loving v. Virginia.

I'm sure, too.

And the conservatives will still be wailing about how it's not fair they can't marry their guns, cars or have a whole horde of slaves, I mean wives to do their bidding.

Maybe if they could satisfy one woman, they wouldn't have to look for multiple women with really low standards willing to deal with their #######. After all, there's only so many times one lady can be expected to put up with being left unsatisfied in a week.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Not a Tailor

[JohnR! 5,495]

:rofl: Luckily for them they can always rely on big guns, huge cars or monster trucks to compensate for other shortcomings...

I'm sure, too.

And the conservatives will still be wailing about how it's not fair they can't marry their guns, cars or have a whole horde of slaves, I mean wives to do their bidding.

Maybe if they could satisfy one woman, they wouldn't have to look for multiple women with really low standards willing to deal with their #######. After all, there's only so many times one lady can be expected to put up with being left unsatisfied in a week.

Edited March 7, 2015 by JohnR!

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

:rofl: Luckily for them they can always rely on big guns, huge cars or monster trucks to compensate for other shortcomings...

Well, I do hear the vibrations from an engine can do very nice things for some ladies...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Glad you asked!

So, there are 37 states, including Alabama, where same sex marriage is 'legal'. This means that there are still 13 states in the union where it is not. In June of this year, the US Supreme Court is expected to make a ruling on whether or not a state constitution can ban same sex marriage. This is a REALLY BIG DEAL.

Why?

Because in thirteen states, same sex couples, whether married in another state or not, have no marital rights. They cannot file state income tax together. They face difficulties both being the parents of the same children--they must, at great expense, adopt their own children in cases where, for example, one female partner carries the child during their marriage via sperm donor and they intend to raise the child together--this is NOT the case for an opposite sex couple and adoption may cost tens of thousands of dollars that would be much better spent on raising the child and looking after the child. They are not considered family to their own spouse by hospitals and must therefore spend a great deal of money on legal fees to have living wills, power of medical attorney and power of attorney papers drawn up--and these are often overturned by homophobic families' lawyers! They also do not have the same rights of inheritance as opposite sex married couples.

These are major issues, but there are multitudes of others, some small and some large. These are a huge problem for people.

Why not move out of state, you ask, to somewhere where your union is legal? It's not always that simple. Military families, academic families, families in certain other industries do not always have the choice of where to live--if my wife and I wanted to leave Texas, she would have to abandon her career right now and she is not at a point in it where she has the choices that someone with more seniority would have. She has to live where she got the best offer. Sometimes there are other concerns such as having to take care of an ill or elderly family member.

So why is Alabama pulling this b.s. scary? Because this summer, 13 states are likely to get marriage equality by a Supreme Court ruling. If other states take ideas from Alabama, this could get messy. The Supreme Court will end up more involved. The federal government may have to call in the National Guard. If this happens? There is likely to be bloodshed. We will get our equality, but at a cost that we would much, much rather avoid.

So here's hoping Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee and Texas don't take a page from Alabama's books and throw a tantrum. Because when states throw tantrums, people die and no one wants that.

I have no issue with gay marriage. I have a problem with dishonest arguments that try to conflate the issue by bringing in silly tangents.