Senate to debate anti-outsourcing bill (they know it won't pass)

[^_^ 5,021]

The Senate will debate a new anti-outsourcing bill this week, which Democrats claim will help create jobs.

The bill would end certain tax credits, deductions and deferrals for U.S. companies expanding or moving overseas.

It would also give companies a two-year payroll tax holiday for any worker who is hired in the United States as a result of bringing back operations from overseas.

A vote on the measure is scheduled for tomorrow.

The program would cost about $720 million over 10 years, but has little chance of passing because of Republican opposition as well as opposition from business groups.

http://www.mlive.com/michigan-job-search/index.ssf/2010/09/senate_to_debate_anti-outsourcing_bill_t.html

[SMR 368]

The Senate will debate a new anti-outsourcing bill this week, which Democrats claim will help create jobs.

The bill would end certain tax credits, deductions and deferrals for U.S. companies expanding or moving overseas.

It would also give companies a two-year payroll tax holiday for any worker who is hired in the United States as a result of bringing back operations from overseas.

A vote on the measure is scheduled for tomorrow.

The program would cost about $720 million over 10 years, but has little chance of passing because of Republican opposition as well as opposition from business groups.

http://www.mlive.com/michigan-job-search/index.ssf/2010/09/senate_to_debate_anti-outsourcing_bill_t.html

Anyone who thinks outsourcing is a problem doesn't understand economics. Outsourcing is not a problem; it is a symptom of a problem. The problem is that operations in other countries are doing the same thing we are doing for so much less money that it makes financial sense to put up with the issues of shipping and communication to do the work there instead of here.

Anyone with a basic understanding of business knows that in order to be successful you have to do something the same for less money or better for the same money (or both, or perhaps a little worse for a lot less money or a lot better for a little more money). This, or course, must be adjusted for geographic convenience. The reality is that some things in America are worse or the same and cost a lot more money. That's a problem. Trying to blame the "evil" companies is not going to change that.

When you are dealing with domestic markets, you can control this and band-aid it with tariffs and tax schemes. But you can't do that for export markets. If I'm building computers and trying to sell them in India, for example, there is no way to force me to use American components if Chinese components are cheaper without simply making me unable to compete with manufacturers in other countries that use cheap Chinese components. I suppose you can subsidize me, but then you're just taking American taxpayer money so that I can sell computers to India for less. That isn't going to help the American economy.

[Heracles 417]

The fact is America is never going to be able to compete with India or China on wages, so should you just export the entire country's workforce?

The American government and any genuine American would be doing everything they can to keep jobs in America - your country.

[mawilson 2,133]

Why do you think it won't pass?

[^_^ 5,021]

Why do you think it won't pass?

Filibuster:

Democrats admit they don't have enough votes to defeat a possible attempt by Republicans to block the bill.

[mawilson 2,133]

Filibuster:

Democrats admit they don't have enough votes to defeat a possible attempt by Republicans to block the bill.

Why do you assume that Republicans will filibuster it? Seems like a classic pre-election feel-good populist bill.

[^_^ 5,021]

Why do you assume that Republicans will filibuster it? Seems like a classic pre-election feel-good populist bill.

Because McConnell opposes it?

Minority Leader Mitch McConnell , R-Ky., countered on the Senate floor that the bill would increase the deficit and would not create jobs in the United States. "Most of the factories the Durbin bill is trying to prevent from moving overseas are not traveling overseas to sell back to the American market but are moving there to gain competitive advantage over foreign companies in foreign markets, and in doing so, they create more jobs and more opportunity right here in the United States," McConnell said.

[mawilson 2,133]

Minority Leader Mitch McConnell , R-Ky., countered on the Senate floor that the bill would increase the deficit and would not create jobs in the United States. "Most of the factories the Durbin bill is trying to prevent from moving overseas are not traveling overseas to sell back to the American market but are moving there to gain competitive advantage over foreign companies in foreign markets, and in doing so, they create more jobs and more opportunity right here in the United States," McConnell said.

Is what he's saying true? If so, he has a point.

[SMR 368]

The fact is America is never going to be able to compete with India or China on wages, so should you just export the entire country's workforce?

The American government and any genuine American would be doing everything they can to keep jobs in America - your country.

We need to figure out what we can do better and cheaper than the Chinese and Indians. If we can't compete, we're doomed. Stiff-arming American companies into doing what you want them to do, whether or not the math works out, is not a long term solution.

Why should an American laborer expect to get more than an Indian or Chinese laborer doing the exact same thing? Just because he or she is American? If someone somewhere else can do what you are doing for less money, you're out of a gig. You need to come up with a new gig or accept that you are going to make less money. There's not much you can do about that short of going to war.

[mawilson 2,133]

Why should an American laborer expect to get more than an Indian or Chinese laborer doing the exact same thing? Just because he or she is American?

Of course.

[Heracles 417]

We need to figure out what we can do better and cheaper than the Chinese and Indians. If we can't compete, we're doomed. Stiff-arming American companies into doing what you want them to do, whether or not the math works out, is not a long term solution.

Why should an American laborer expect to get more than an Indian or Chinese laborer doing the exact same thing? Just because he or she is American? If someone somewhere else can do what you are doing for less money, you're out of a gig. You need to come up with a new gig or accept that you are going to make less money. There's not much you can do about that short of going to war.

Will you work for dollars a day? Then nothing you do will ever be cheaper. Realistically, who wants their country and ultimately themselves to end up competing for dollars? While some on the right here are keen on that, since they are so fond of crapmart, I strongly oppose race to the bottom strategies.

Actually the best thing you can do is educate Americans to understand that cheap is just shooting yourselves in the foot. For the small percentage that are wealthy, as illustrated earlier, they are just going to profit more and be able to purchase things even cheaper; thus leaving them even more money to become even wealthier. However, while they are living it up aristocratic style, more and more Americans are forced to live in third world squalor, with little opportunity to ever grow. That is totally unacceptable.

There is a lot that can be done to tackle this and Aus and Canada are doing it. Both countries barely manufacture anything, yet their people are stilling killing it. First thing is close all illegal alien loopholes, as the US is full-house. With the death of manufacturing, the US does not need anymore 19th century workers period. Both countries actually put their Country First. Slogan ring a bell?

Edited September 27, 2010 by Heracles

[SMR 368]

Will you work for dollars a day? Then nothing you do will ever be cheaper. Realistically, who wants their country and ultimately themselves to end up competing for dollars? While some on the right here are keen on that, since they are so fond of crapmart, I strongly oppose race to the bottom strategies.

Actually the best thing you can do is educate Americans to understand that cheap is just shooting yourselves in the foot. For the small percentage that are wealthy, as illustrated earlier, they are just going to profit more and be able to purchase things even cheaper; thus leaving them even more money to become even wealthier. However, while they are living it up aristocratic style, more and more Americans are forced to live in third world squalor, with little opportunity to ever grow. That is totally unacceptable.

There is a lot that can be done to tackle this and Aus and Canada are doing it. Both countries barely manufacture anything, yet their people are stilling killing it. First thing is close all illegal alien loopholes, as the US is full-house. With the death of manufacturing, the US does not need anymore 19th century workers period. Both countries acotually put their Country First. Slogan ring a bell?

You don't seem to be listening to what I am saying and I can tell because you seem to think that I am trying to argue with you when in reality I agree with a lot of what you are saying. We need to figure out ways to perform higher value added services. Manufacturing no longer provides a lifestyle that most Americans want. I acknowledge that. What I am saying is that it is pointless to try to fight that. If we can't compete with China in manufacturing, we can't compete. And no amount of tax breaks, tariffs, tax penalties, and strong-arm laws is going to change that. The American economy needs to adapt and be smarter and more productive. That is what will made us, and will keep us, an economic power.

If you think you can convince Americans to pay 3 times the price for something just because it is made in America, go for it. But it's a dead end loop. Even if you can, those Americans who are working in manufacturing won't be able to pay 3 times the price and they won't have anything more than what they had before when they made less money but everything cost less by shopping at Walmart.

In regards to dollars a day, I don't want to work for it. But I also realize it's unrealistic to do the same thing that some guy in India is doing and expect to get paid more for it. It's a global economy and unless you can break the internet, prevent shipping, or confuse the languages so people can't talk, it will remain such. If I want to be paid more than the guy working in a factory in India, I have to do something more valuable than what he is doing. Protectionism will get us nowhere.