A qusestion to men who would pay for sex...

[Peikko 1,575]

The rub is that you do not understand that prostitution is a business. I have no illusion that prostitutes are doing it because they "enjoy sex". Maybe they do, maybe they don't. It doesn't matter. Fee for service. How many people that you pay for service ENJOY what they are doing? How many do you CARE if they are enjoying it? It seems no one has a problem with the idea of fee for service, do you care if the Vietnamese girl that does your nails was a doctor in her country but now puts polish on your fingernails? Do you get a certificate of enjoyment from the illegal immigrant that mows your lawn in the blazing heat for 12 hours a day?

Heck, I enjoy my job so much that I will no longer work more than 20-25 hours per week because I don't need to.

As for it being consensual...YES it is. In exchange for money. You think the guy that details your car is going to come over and do that for free?

Just because there are women out there that will offer sex to men for free, and undercut the professionals and take money from the pockets of girls working very hard, why do you hold them out to be somehow better? The women at your local club or your local singles ads are nothing but "c*ckblockers" for people trying to make a living. They may as well sit outside the nail salon ad offer free manicures.

Why does "sex" suddenly complicate matters? It is a fee for service. I do not care if the prostitute enjoys it, I wouldn't ask.

Well Gary, I wonder? Have you ever paid for sex or is this all speculation on your part?

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Do you think you would notice if the chef hated cooking? I think you might and that's a closer analogy than the 'waitress' bullcrap.

Now, as for the actual question, are you saying that sex for you is an act of selfish pleasure?

Yes, and then I would eat somewhere else.

No, I am saying that for a client of a prostitute sex is a selfish pleasure and he doesn't care about her emotionally. I was using an analogy, it is where you compare a situation a person may be more familiar with to the one you are discussing. Analogies are a way of explaining something to someone that otherwise isn't "getting it". It is not to be construed as what one believes for oneself, but I know that you are used to forcing your beliefs on other people, so it is natural that you try to assume that and force that opinion on me so you do not have to have a meaningful discussion. By assigning "positions" to people (control) you can argue better.

There is nothing WRONG with sex being a selfish pleasure for the client of a prostitute, that is what he PAYS for.

[mawilson 2,133]

I went to finishing school and I still think it's ok to pay for sex.

Bottom line, there are lots of crappy jobs out there.

Surely prostitution isn't as bad as being a septic tank repairman, sewage worker, port-a-potty cleaner or fishmonger.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Well Gary, I wonder? Have you ever paid for sex or is this all speculation on your part?

It is not important if I paid for sex or not. We are discussing a topic. You admonished me to stay on topic. I am. Discuss it, or leave.

It is not speculation that prostitutes may not enjoy sex and that clients do not care.

[Peikko 1,575]

It is not important if I paid for sex or not. We are discussing a topic. You admonished me to stay on topic. I am. Discuss it, or leave.

It is not speculation that prostitutes may not enjoy sex and that clients do not care.

Clearly it is speculation unless you have paid for sex and know from experience. Despite all your protests, sex is not just another service, if it was, you wouldn't give a fig if your wife went out and had sex with other men - unless you do think that is perfectly ok. Do you?

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I went to finishing school and I still think it's ok to pay for sex.

In Russia the Soviet government ran "Sparrow School" to train women to be prostitutes. Since the Soviet Union disolved it is now a privately run school to teach women how to care for the sexual needs of men. Some are prostitutes, some are women that want to please their husbands. The KGB and, now, FSB are some of their best clients. Heaven only knows HOW we ever won the cold war!

Is that the school you wnet to?

[Peikko 1,575]

Bottom line, there are lots of crappy jobs out there.

Surely prostitution isn't as bad as being a septic tank repairman, sewage worker, port-a-potty cleaner or fishmonger.

If it wasn't, I don't believe it would be illegal in the US. I know the church puts a moral spanner in the works in the US, but it's not simply a question of whether 'god' approves of multiple partners, it's whether sex should or should not be valued as something beyond an animalistic act.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I am saying that for a client of a prostitute sex is a selfish pleasure and he doesn't care about her emotionally.

There is nothing WRONG with sex being a selfish pleasure for the client of a prostitute, that is what he PAYS for.

There is nothing wrong with it if you are an amoral person Gary.

Various forms of libertarianism have been criticised for just that - that proponents take positions on issues with no consideration of their moral or ethical dimensions. As philosophies go, it's quite evil.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Its a MADHOUSE

[mawilson 2,133]

If it wasn't, I don't believe it would be illegal in the US. I know the church puts a moral spanner in the works in the US, but it's not simply a question of whether 'god' approves of multiple partners, it's whether sex should or should not be valued as something beyond an animalistic act.

Prostitution is legal in (some parts of) Nevada. Before 1915, it was legal everywhere in the US.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Clearly it is speculation unless you have paid for sex and know from experience. Despite all your protests, sex is not just another service, if it was, you wouldn't give a fig if your wife went out and had sex with other men - unless you do think that is perfectly ok. Do you?

So then you are a prostitute MC? If not it is just speculation? Be serious. You really cannot argue a point, can you?

No, it is not OK if my wife has sex with other men. It is also not OK for her to cook them dinner or clean their toilets but I have no moral crusade against cooks or maids. Those are things that WE, Alla and I, agree are exclusive to each other. We have made that choice for OURSELVES and it applies to only ourselves. I really don't care if some other guy and his wife agree for her to be a prostitute.

Again, we are discussing a general position on an issue. A person's personal choices for himself, or those he makes with his family are not an issue and I have said so since my first post on this issue.

You must be completely stumped if this is the best you can do.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Prostitution is legal in (some parts of) Nevada. Before 1915, it was legal everywhere in the US.

Northern California had several notable houses, even as late as the 1970's. Of course, as the towns grew up and became respectable, those things kinda disappeared.

[mawilson 2,133]

it's whether sex should or should not be valued as something beyond an animalistic act.

Let the free market decide. Do you own your own body or does the government own it?

If it's your body, you should be allowed to sell any part of it, be it your #######

or a kidney if you choose to do so.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

There is nothing wrong with it if you are an amoral person Gary.

Various forms of libertarianism have been criticised for just that - that proponents take positions on issues with no consideration of their moral or ethical dimensions. As philosophies go, it's quite evil.

I think it is evil to project YOUR moralisms onto others. In fact I consider it far more evil than thinking that sex is a selfish pleasure and using the services of someone willing to satisfy that pleasure for a fee.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think it is evil to project YOUR moralisms onto others. In fact I consider it far more evil than thinking that sex is a selfish pleasure and using the services of someone willing to satisfy that pleasure for a fee.

That would only be relevant if I wanted prostitution to be illegal. I don't. That has never been my position.

The point Gary, is that if you refuse to acknowledge ethical aspects of these issues then you can justify virtually anything. And indeed, you do.

[Peikko 1,575]

Prostitution is legal in (some parts of) Nevada. Before 1915, it was legal everywhere in the US.

Lots of things were legal simply because the legal infrastructure did not exist to enforce a plethora of laws, whatever one thinks of that. Regardless, my point remains, is sex something that has value beyond an being an act of selfish pleasure? Why does anyone care at all if their partner is or isn't sexually aroused? Can a prostitute be raped by a client?