Cut Spending, But Not Really

[Ali G. 37]

The whole point of our government and the huge MISCONCEPTION of the United States is that we are and always have been a Democracy. We were never intended to be a democracy in true form, we were supposed to be a "Represenative Republic" in which EVERYONE was represented accordingly.

Now we have a democracy where political activism and corruption rule the day.

That's one of the many areas where we have gone wrong over the course of time.

Let me get this straight. You feel a democracy where everyone has a say (a voice) can be corrupted, yet under a "Represenative Republic", the people would be represented without the chance of corruption; without the chance of someone pretending to represent me but really pushing their own agenda. Personally, I'll take being able to vote on something myself over having someone 'represent' me any day.

[mawilson 2,133]

Why is that a good thing?

Because laws make you less free.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Let me get this straight. You feel a democracy where everyone has a say (a voice) can be corrupted, yet under a "Represenative Republic", the people would be represented without the chance of corruption; without the chance of someone pretending to represent me but really pushing their own agenda. Personally, I'll take being able to vote on something myself over having someone 'represent' me any day.

This is why the House is elected every 2 years.... If the Rep isn't representing you, you can get rid of them.

and "you" being represented if completely irrelevant if it violates the constitution and that was the whole point of the checks and balances in the way the system was setup.

[Ali G. 37]

Because the United States was never supposed to be about Nationalism. It was groups of colonies/states living under a common good/cause, while at the same time maintaining their individualism.

The beautiful part about this nation and the way it was designed is that you can literally live in a 'welfare' state or you can live in a 'fend for yourself' state if you so chose to. You could live in a state where it's perfectly legal to be 18 and drink without penalty from the Federal Government, or you could live in a state where the drinking age is 30.....

Collectivism/Nationalism will ALWAYS fail miserably because people are all inherently different. The ability to have a nation that allows people to be as one, yet at the same time be different is awesome.

The problem is, people instead of looking to fix their state for its problems or instead of moving to a state that fits their idea of life (and some do mind you) they try and change things on a Federal level, when that was never the intention or design.

I think you will find that every single first world country with a higher standard of living discredits that notion, including Canada. Folks with similar views always seem to assume that you either have capitalism or communism, with no in between. "The ability to have a nation that allows people to be as one, yet at the same time be different is awesome." and also known as the first world. Newsflash: Freedom is not patented by the US.

"The beautiful part" is actually what is driving the nation into the ground in 2010. Just in case you have not noticed, you are not exactly winning any international accolades or recognition. Nevertheless, the US is also not the only country with states rights. However, those abroad understand that some things should be handled on a federal level while others on a state level.

[Ali G. 37]

The constitution and the United States of America aren't my opinion, they are flat out facts.

Lost me there.

Don't try and play the illusionist that people are different today. People are the exact same today as they have been since the dawn of time.

Is the world the same? At the time the constitution was written, Sydney was having its first fence post erected. Nowadays, the average Joe from Texas would need to own three homes in Dallas to buy one equivalent home in Sydney. Hence the times and world has changed.

There have always been leaders, followers, workers, leeches, brainwashers and the brainwashed, etc. People are people, period. Time does not change human nature.

Agreed. Hence why the civilized world has laws to prevent corruption, crime, abuse etc.

The constitution of the United States was written and its beauty is it lets all people live a life depending on what state they live in, however they choose to live that life. Without worry of a government breathing down their neck.

Freedom of choice is not a patent of the United States. The difference is that other civilized nations have 'within reason' in their clause.

The United States broke off from England because of its overbearing Government and we created a Small Federal Government because of what we have learned to shy away from. We were a nation of individuals searching for a better life beyond Government intervention.

Kings and Queens are a thing of the past.

Too many are trying to revert and make us about the UK or other parts of Europe. We aren't Europe and we never wanted to be that. We are our own entity in the world and we should remain as such.

You mean like the countries that are severely beating Americans in terms of quality of life. Who would want to learn anything from those scumbags right?

There will be a call to arms before the people of this nation let the constitution be destroyed. I would die for it with the smallest of blades in my hand if I had to. Every true patriot would.

Hence why the US becomes the butt of jokes abroad daily. You cannot take on the world, even Germany who was light years ahead in technology learned that the hard way. Folks from your Texas to Kentucky need to hit the history books and learn a thing or two.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Booyah

[Ali G. 37]

This libertarian / constitutionalists view is akin to a vehicle manufacturer insisting that five wheels on a vehicle are better than four. Defying all logic, the world and research that without a doubt illustrates four are the best. Why? Because someone in 18 century felt five wheels were better.

Totally bizarre and alien to me.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Booyah

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I think you will find that every single first world country with a higher standard of living discredits that notion, including Canada. Folks with similar views always seem to assume that you either have capitalism or communism, with no in between. "The ability to have a nation that allows people to be as one, yet at the same time be different is awesome." and also known as the first world. Newsflash: Freedom is not patented by the US.

"The beautiful part" is actually what is driving the nation into the ground in 2010. Just in case you have not noticed, you are not exactly winning any international accolades or recognition. Nevertheless, the US is also not the only country with states rights. However, those abroad understand that some things should be handled on a federal level while others on a state level.

*sigh*

Comparing the US to Canada and the UK is a fallacy in itself in so many ways. UK and Canada combined don't come close to our population either.

You can't judge an economy strictly on the policies of another nation, it's just not possible. So many factors take place.

Also the "SOL" of the UK is bastardized anyway by the Bank of England and the noose they have on the economy (of course any country with a central bank has a noose on the economy).

Hell, part of the biggest problem with the US right now is the banking system and the control the Federal Reserve has... It's truly annoying.

If the US Government wasn't so spend happy and wasn't oversized like it is, even with our population we'd be more balanced. Our government borrows its money and has nothing to back it up at all... We've been in debt since World War II, so yes... our SOL is going to be lower.

Again, Government is the problem.....

Always has and always will be.

I'm not against 'regulation,' but the only regulation should be on things like fraud/deception and that's EXACTLY what happened with the derivitives market here a couple of years ago. People warned time and time again the it was going to burst, but Greenspan and his complete handsoff approach (which made money for the Federal Reserve still mind you) destroyed the economy.

Now as we keep printing more money, causing lack of faith in the dollar, which both cause it to devalue, inflation will rise, government will try and compensate by raising the minimum wage and costs will continue to go up and we're on a never ending spiraling economic cycle BECAUSE of Government on both accounts. First because they didn't regulate what they were supposed to and secondly doing what they're not supposed to in intervening too much.

There has to be a fine balance in government regulation and that's where we have gone wrong for the past many decades.

[mawilson 2,133]

You mean like the countries that are severely beating Americans in terms of quality of life.

Keep repeating it, maybe some idiot will actually believe it.

Most Americans I know have a pretty damn good quality of life. Much better than their (poorer) European cousins.

But hey, let's look at the ghetto, or pictures of shiny Australian roads, or compare Ford F-150 to an Audi,

or Detroit to Chernobyl for 10 billionth time.

[Ali G. 37]

Comparing the US to Canada and the UK is a fallacy in itself in so many ways. UK and Canada combined don't come close to our population either.

You can't judge an economy strictly on the policies of another nation, it's just not possible. So many factors take place.

Likewise, you cannot ignore the huge success these nations have. The average Canadian and Australian is definitely beating the average Joe here in so many ways. Particularly in the most important way, their quality of life.

Also the "SOL" of the UK is bastardized anyway by the Bank of England and the noose they have on the economy (of course any country with a central bank has a noose on the economy).

Hell, part of the biggest problem with the US right now is the banking system and the control the Federal Reserve has... It's truly annoying.

If the US Government wasn't so spend happy and wasn't oversized like it is, even with our population we'd be more balanced. Our government borrows its money and has nothing to back it up at all... We've been in debt since World War II, so yes... our SOL is going to be lower.

The equivalent central banks and regulation abroad have helped ward off the recession and impact of it in their country; definitely the case in Australia. Furthermore, without it, the US economy would have been in a depression by now.

Again, Government is the problem.....

Always has and always will be.

That is just baseless rhetoric. The government is now the scapegoat, and we all know there is always a scapegoat in America. Which is ironic considering the BS about 'personal responsibility'. The government many with similar views so strongly hate here, is the same entity that has built world renowned countries abroad. This notion of government you hate is who has taken china from nothing to having amassed $2.4 trillion USD in liquid cash. They could actually buy Texas and bulldoze it all to the ground for the sake of it, in cash.

I'm not against 'regulation,' but the only regulation should be on things like fraud/deception and that's EXACTLY what happened with the derivitives market here a couple of years ago. People warned time and time again the it was going to burst, but Greenspan and his complete handsoff approach (which made money for the Federal Reserve still mind you) destroyed the economy.

The overall lack of regulation is what allowed the private wild wild west sector to screw the economy. Don't blame Greenspan or anyone else for lenders negligently handing out loans to anyone like their going out of fashion. Lets not pretend Greenspan or the fed was filling out these forms to illegal aliens by the name of Ronald McDonald. Regulation is also why less than 1% of Australian's mortgages are considered subprime.

Now as we keep printing more money, causing lack of faith in the dollar, which both cause it to devalue, inflation will rise, government will try and compensate by raising the minimum wage and costs will continue to go up and we're on a never ending spiraling economic cycle BECAUSE of Government on both accounts. First because they didn't regulate what they were supposed to and secondly doing what they're not supposed to in intervening too much.

I see your point there..

There has to be a fine balance in government regulation and that's where we have gone wrong for the past many decades.

Which goes back to my original argument. This is not the 18th, 19th or 20th century; this is 2010. It's a totally different world, market and ballgame now.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Keep repeating it, maybe some idiot will actually believe it.

Most Americans I know have a pretty damn good quality of life. Much better than their (poorer) European cousins.

But hey, let's look at the ghetto, or pictures of shiny Australian roads, or compare Ford F-150 to an Audi,

or Detroit to Chernobyl for 10 billionth time.

Yeah...

When the poor in the United States stop buying Nike shoes and fancy cars, then I'll worry a little more. Poor choices more than anything in the US lead to the 'poor' being poor.

Driver through the 'minority' neighborhoods in the United States and you'll see shotty houses, but nice cars in the driveway lol...

I'll have to look for it, but there was a extensive study done where 'poverty' in the United States consisted of having TVs, DVD players, a place to live, etc... it was damn funny.

While that's not ALWAYS the case, it is most of the time.....

[Ali G. 37]

Keep repeating it, maybe some idiot will actually believe it.

Most Americans I know have a pretty damn good quality of life. Much better than their (poorer) European cousins.

But hey, let's look at the ghetto, or pictures of shiny Australian roads, or compare Ford F-150 to an Audi,

or Detroit to Chernobyl for 10 billionth time.

Hey I would be pro less government myself, if I too scammed my way into the United States. You study Quantitative stuff, so you should know first hand how to interpret international studies that rank countries and cities.

Most Americans? 99% of your time is spent in Manhattan. An area making up 0.5% of America's population. In other words, you have squat exposure to America; with 30% of the area foreign born.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Booyah

[Obama 2012 1,714]

The overall lack of regulation is what allowed the private wild wild west sector to screw the economy. Don't blame Greenspan or anyone else for lenders negligently handing out loans to anyone like their going out of fashion. Lets not pretend Greenspan or the fed was filling out these forms to illegal aliens by the name of Ronald McDonald. Regulation is also why less than 1% of Australian's mortgages are considered subprime.

I'm not saying Greenspan is wholly to blame, but certainly did everything he could to let the banks do what they did.

Brooksley Born was destroyed by Greenspan and the Clinton Administration because she wanted to regulate fraud in the market...

So I do hold him somewhat responsible in his powerful position for what happened, just as I blame Bernanke for keeping interest rates low right now when they should be drastically raised to let the market correct itself.

[mawilson 2,133]

Most Americans? 99% of your time is spent in Manhattan. An area making up 0.5% of America's population. In other words, you have squat exposure to America; with 30% of the area foreign born.

Assumptions, assumptions.

[Ali G. 37]

Assumptions, assumptions.

Come on dude.. Hardly an assumption.

[mawilson 2,133]

Come on dude.. Hardly an assumption.

I do have friends and colleagues from other states, you know...