Is there anything left for America to manufacture?

[FortLaudy 10]

Sure, if we go back to the agricultural practices of the 18th century. Of course then we'd find out how hard it is to maintain production at a level to feed everyone - and I doubt many people would relish living life like a character from the Grapes of Wrath.

I have a little more optimism about what people are capable to achieve.

BTW, I think people who lived more simple lives back then were probably far more happier than us folks today, and at the end of the day (or life), what's important?

shani - do you have a veggie garden?

Yes ! Every once in a while one of the dogs will get into it and destroy that's why we're moving to a bigger place - big lot and where we can drill for a well.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I have a little more optimism about what people are capable to achieve.

BTW, I think people who lived more simple lives back then were probably far more happier than us folks today, and at the end of the day (or life), what's important?

You can't quantify romantic conceptions of the past.

Nor does optimism balance the books. Its not a question of simple optimism either - its entirely a question of economics. This country (nor any other) isn't, can't and never will be self sufficient - certainly not that its standard of living can exist without foreign imports.

Hell the Romans couldnt even do that.

[Ali G. 37]

There are a lot of people willing to work, but without a college education, its difficult to find a job that can pay a living wage. Its a downward cycle really, Even if we made college education affordable for everyone, it would end up devaluing collage for everyone else. For many professions you would create an oversupply of workers further driving salaries down.

That's interesting considering the number of blue-collar workers that earn well over $100K in Aus. USD of course..

As long as US employers are allowed to use and exploit illegal immigrants, it certainly will remain a "downward cycle". Education is not for everyone, hence why some of the wealthiest billionaires did not have an education. However, starting from the bottom and moving up is no longer an option in the US. As isn't doing manual labor.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Booyah

[Ali G. 37]

Same way the US cannot compete with a third world country on wages, blue-collar workers cannot compete with illegal aliens. As such, this is no longer a viable career path. Simple as that really.

Also why most other first world countries have strict laws and punishment for any similar slave drivers that exploit cheap labor, in their own country, for their own profit. Similarly, the UK opened their borders up to anyone from the EU. Just read an article the other day regarding how the gap between the rich and the poor has grown to 70's levels again.

Supply and demand is not rocket science.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Booyah

[FortLaudy 10]

This country (nor any other) isn't, can't and never will be self sufficient - certainly not that its standard of living can exist without foreign imports.

There are countries who are self sufficient, if only the west will let them be and stop giving out free handouts, they will be completely self-sufficient, "poor" maybe from a western point of view, but not necessarily unhappy or scrounging for food and shelter.

This standard of living concept in America has always amazed me. It seems to be all about having the latest gadget and keeping up with what the neighbors has, biggest house or car one can find, not necessarily afford. I saw this even with my own husband, he calls me Ed Begley sometimes when I go into my cheapo tree-hugger mode, but seriously, to me being happy has nothing to do with materialistic things I own, in America people seem to judge their success in life by material wealth Only. Sure, money makes life easier and I'm all for making the most of your naturally given talents, but at the end of your life are you gonna ask yourself... I wish I had spent more time making money?

[mawilson 2,133]

Well yeah....

Of course its not going to happen.

Start slapping tariffs on Chinese ####### and it will happen.

[FortLaudy 10]

There are a lot of people willing to work, but without a college education, its difficult to find a job that can pay a living wage. Its a downward cycle really, Even if we made college education affordable for everyone, it would end up devaluing collage for everyone else. For many professions you would create an oversupply of workers further driving salaries down.

You could be right. In my opinion: USUALLY the same people who are not willing to work are the same people who are not willing to study further.

[Dan J 277]

That's interesting considering the number of blue-collar workers that earn well over $100K in Aus. USD of course..

As long as US employers are allowed to use and exploit illegal immigrants, it certainly will remain a "downward cycle". Education is not for everyone, hence why some of the wealthiest billionaires did not have an education. However, starting from the bottom and moving up is no longer an option in the US. As isn't doing manual labor.

You can do pretty well as a licensed plumber or electrician. But how many of those do we need?

The fact is, most people with just a HS diploma, are going to get stuck with a low paying jobs. There are no incentive to pay well, just incentives to cut costs.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There are countries who are self sufficient, if only the west will let them be and stop giving out free handouts, they will be completely self-sufficient, "poor" maybe from a western point of view, but not necessarily unhappy or scrounging for food and shelter.

Handouts like emergency relief aid, to dig people out of the wreckage of their homes following natural disasters, or to provide food to oppressed peoples in war/famine stricken countries?

This standard of living concept in America has always amazed me. It seems to be all about having the latest gadget and keeping up with what the neighbors has, biggest house or car one can find, not necessarily afford. I saw this even with my own husband, he calls me Ed Begley sometimes when I go into my cheapo tree-hugger mode, but seriously, to me being happy has nothing to do with materialistic things I own, in America people seem to judge their success in life by material wealth Only. Sure, money makes life easier and I'm all for making the most of your naturally given talents, but at the end of your life are you gonna ask yourself... I wish I had spent more time making money?

That's fine as far as it goes, but its not a philosophy that a country like the US can adopt.

[FortLaudy 10]

You can do pretty well as a licensed plumber or electrician. But how many of those do we need?

The fact is, most people with just a HS diploma, are going to get stuck with a low paying jobs. There are no incentive to pay well, just incentives to cut costs.

Some people get stuck in low-paying jobs because when they come home they play video games or watch tv, they're not putting their talents to use or even finding out what their talents are. I met a guy the other day with only a HS diploma who is now a multi-millionnaire, he spent his free time working on what made him rich.

[Ali G. 37]

You can do pretty well as a licensed plumber or electrician. But how many of those do we need?

The fact is, most people with just a HS diploma, are going to get stuck with a low paying jobs. There are no incentive to pay well, just incentives to cut costs.

Supply and Demand 101 suggests otherwise. Certain groups have kept degrees expensive, for the elite, while pushing for more and more uneducated illegal aliens to take up blue-collar jobs. Even in this crisis, the majority of blue-collar jobs in my area are going to illegal aliens. In the same breath, this same group of folks turn around and claim we are not doing enough for America's poor, in particular minorities. Logic a kid in an elementary school can see results in a fail.

One again, it's not rocket science. The unskilled or blue-collar labor market needs to be sealed shut for the next five or ten years. That way, such a restriction on supply will drive up salaries. Yes, this does mean less profit for the slave drivers that are profiteering at the expense of Americans.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Booyah

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Start slapping tariffs on Chinese ####### and it will happen.

...if you want to adopt economically ruinous policies that amount to political suicide.

When Joe Walmart shopper discovers that he can no longer feed his family because Walmart products cost the same as the Vons, who do you think he's going to vote for and how do you think the opposition will go about getting his vote?

[FortLaudy 10]

Handouts like emergency relief aid, to dig people out of the wreckage of their homes following natural disasters, or to provide food to oppressed peoples in war/famine stricken countries?

to provide food to oppressed peoples in war/famine stricken countries.

However I will say, when a country is facing a recession and total economic collapse and another country is suffering from the aftermath of an earth quake, isn't it better to have the attitude of: " Hey, we feel really sorry for you guys and would love to help, but right now, in our own country we have some problems we really need this money for and cannot at this time donate, however we will ask ordinary American people to send money to X organisation and that money we are happy to donate."

[Ali G. 37]

In my opinion: USUALLY the same people who are not willing to work are the same people who are not willing to study further.

Definitely true.

[Dan J 277]

Some people get stuck in low-paying jobs because when they come home they play video games or watch tv, they're not putting their talents to use or even finding out what their talents are. I met a guy the other day with only a HS diploma who is now a multi-millionnaire, he spent his free time working on what made him rich.

Stereotypes are fun right? You can do better than that.

There is the American adage, that if you work hard, you will do well. Not really true any more though. There are very very few opportunities to succeed without a 4 year college degree. Many end up working 60-80 hour weeks not by choice, but just to survive.

Of course there are lazy people who try to take advantage of the system, just like there are wealthy people who try to evade taxes. But we shouldn't make our policies based on these people, as they are often the exception not the rule.