Rep. Weiner (D, NY) shreds Betsy "Death Panels" McCaughey

[rebeccajo 14]

How does 'end of life couselling' become some negative thing in your head Joe? Do you not have any elderly relatives?

I wonder if all those times (when I was working in the law firm) that I advised clients to prepare a Living Will, if that made me a member of a death panel?

Seriously - planning for the end of life is NOT encouraging people to die. It's encouraging them to have a say in "how they go out". It gives them dignity and it allows them to make decisions for themselves that family find it hard to do.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Joseph hasn't actually read the bill himself. He's just comfortable parroting the Right Wing propaganda because what's most important to him is to see Obama fail...so his Republicans can come storming back into Washington in 2010 and set things right once and for all.

you haven't read it either. actually you can't read it. pelosi & reid don't want anyone to read it.....i wonder why.

You can't read?

The Senate’s Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Draft

HR3200

[Joseph & Ana 0]

I've read most of key parts. But I don't find it necessary to hash through 1000 pages. I have better things to do with my time. It was made 1000 pages on purpose.

End of life counseling IS in there, whether you want to lie about it or not. At least i'm honest in saying I haven't read all 1000 pages like you lie about. You didn't read a 1000 page bill.

I agree...everyday citizens shouldn't feel a need to read through these bills that drafted by lawyers....that's why we have elected representatives to represent us.

The problem is that you'll take McCaughey's spin on the bill as gospel simply because it helps support your opposition to the health care reform. Had she made any positive commentary on the bill, you would have thrown her under the bus as another liberal spin doctor.

I didn't even know she said anything (i have never paid attention to her) until this post. The bottom line is that when someone refers to death panels (no matter who coined the effing phrase) it is referring to "end of life counseling" and Obama's own words "we are partners with God" on end of life issues. Sorry, but he is supposedly the inspiration for this legislation now, and it worries people when things like this are talked about. Is end of life counseling in the bill or not? Just tell the truth. Don't dodge the issue.

Joseph, you're playing the spin game and you know it. For a literal person such as yourself, it seems quite disingenuous to make up words that aren't there. Isn't that what you Rignt Wingers accuse Liberals of doing when it comes to the laws and the Constitution? Don't abandon your principals just because it works in favor to your opposition.

Guano - Is the issue about the wording or is it about the truth? Is end of life counseling in there or not? and are we partners with God in deciding it?

[Joseph & Ana 0]

How does 'end of life couselling' become some negative thing in your head Joe? Do you not have any elderly relatives?

I wonder if all those times (when I was working in the law firm) that I advised clients to prepare a Living Will, if that made me a member of a death panel?

Seriously - planning for the end of life is NOT encouraging people to die. It's encouraging them to have a say in "how they go out". It gives them dignity and it allows them to make decisions for themselves that family find it hard to do.

If its as simple and telling people "you need a living will" then it wouldn't be in the bill. ANd what does it have to do with being a partner with God? Doesn't God decide who lives or dies according to Obama?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I've read most of key parts. But I don't find it necessary to hash through 1000 pages. I have better things to do with my time. It was made 1000 pages on purpose.

End of life counseling IS in there, whether you want to lie about it or not. At least i'm honest in saying I haven't read all 1000 pages like you lie about. You didn't read a 1000 page bill.

I agree...everyday citizens shouldn't feel a need to read through these bills that drafted by lawyers....that's why we have elected representatives to represent us.

The problem is that you'll take McCaughey's spin on the bill as gospel simply because it helps support your opposition to the health care reform. Had she made any positive commentary on the bill, you would have thrown her under the bus as another liberal spin doctor.

I didn't even know she said anything (i have never paid attention to her) until this post. The bottom line is that when someone refers to death panels (no matter who coined the effing phrase) it is referring to "end of life counseling" and Obama's own words "we are partners with God" on end of life issues. Sorry, but he is supposedly the inspiration for this legislation now, and it worries people when things like this are talked about. Is end of life counseling in the bill or not? Just tell the truth. Don't dodge the issue.

Joseph, you're playing the spin game and you know it. For a literal person such as yourself, it seems quite disingenuous to make up words that aren't there. Isn't that what you Rignt Wingers accuse Liberals of doing when it comes to the laws and the Constitution? Don't abandon your principals just because it works in favor to your opposition.

Guano - Is the issue about the wording or is it about the truth? Is end of life counseling in there or not? and are we partners with God in deciding it?

Wait. So if a judge says he's interpreting a law you call it judicial activism, but it's okay for you, an everyday citizen to act on a higher authority than a judge in interpreting legal documentation? How many years of Law have you studied?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Is end of life counseling in the bill or not? Just tell the truth. Don't dodge the issue.

Yes, it is. It is a serivce that Medicare would pay for if the patient chooses to receive it. As I quoted from factcheck.org above, suggesting that the bill will require end of life counseling equates to suggesting that Medicare requires that the elderly be fitted with prosthetic limbs seeing that Medicare is paying for those as well. Or that the elderly are required to receive bypass surgery, cancer treatments and the like since Medicare pays for those as well. The truth, however, is that these are services available to Medicare recipients. If you don't want the service, nobody forces you to get it. That's what's in the bill. That's the truth.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

I've read most of key parts. But I don't find it necessary to hash through 1000 pages. I have better things to do with my time. It was made 1000 pages on purpose.

End of life counseling IS in there, whether you want to lie about it or not. At least i'm honest in saying I haven't read all 1000 pages like you lie about. You didn't read a 1000 page bill.

I agree...everyday citizens shouldn't feel a need to read through these bills that drafted by lawyers....that's why we have elected representatives to represent us.

The problem is that you'll take McCaughey's spin on the bill as gospel simply because it helps support your opposition to the health care reform. Had she made any positive commentary on the bill, you would have thrown her under the bus as another liberal spin doctor.

I didn't even know she said anything (i have never paid attention to her) until this post. The bottom line is that when someone refers to death panels (no matter who coined the effing phrase) it is referring to "end of life counseling" and Obama's own words "we are partners with God" on end of life issues. Sorry, but he is supposedly the inspiration for this legislation now, and it worries people when things like this are talked about. Is end of life counseling in the bill or not? Just tell the truth. Don't dodge the issue.

Joseph, you're playing the spin game and you know it. For a literal person such as yourself, it seems quite disingenuous to make up words that aren't there. Isn't that what you Rignt Wingers accuse Liberals of doing when it comes to the laws and the Constitution? Don't abandon your principals just because it works in favor to your opposition.

Guano - Is the issue about the wording or is it about the truth? Is end of life counseling in there or not? and are we partners with God in deciding it?

Wait. So if a judge says he's interpreting a law you call it judicial activism, but it's okay for you, an everyday citizen to act on a higher authority than a judge in interpreting legal documentation? How many years of Law have you studied?

Nice copout Guano. I thought you were above that.

Is end of life counseling in the bill or not? Just tell the truth. Don't dodge the issue.

Yes, it is. It is a serivce that Medicare would pay for if the patient chooses to receive it. As I quoted from factcheck.org above, suggesting that the bill will require end of life counseling equates to suggesting that Medicare requires that the elderly be fitted with prosthetic limbs seeing that Medicare is paying for those as well. Or that the elderly are required to receive bypass surgery, cancer treatments and the like since Medicare pays for those as well. The truth, however, is that these are services available to Medicare recipients. If you don't want the service, nobody forces you to get it. That's what's in the bill. That's the truth.

Just as the public option is "just another option" even though there is a $1900 fine for not buying into it if you have no insurance. Sure, you don't have to have it, but we'll take 1900 bucks from you, and then make you get it, or throw you in jail.

[Peikko 1,575]

No, it's not the same thing at all Joe but that's where your lack of logic constantly takes you, into the muddy waters of outrage.

[rebeccajo 14]

If its as simple and telling people "you need a living will" then it wouldn't be in the bill. ANd what does it have to do with being a partner with God? Doesn't God decide who lives or dies according to Obama?

Joseph -

Another of my observations from my time in the law was that many people don't deal with end-of-life matters until that end is very nearly at hand. I cannot tell you the number of times we journeyed to local hospitals and nursing homes to take documents to folks who didn't want prolonged treatment.

I often wished the hospital or facility could have been involved in some manner regards counseling the patient. Instead some decisions were being made in a time of high emotion for the family, or more sinisterly by family members who did not have the patients best interest at hand.

I really felt/feel that the 'death panel' hue and cry was more sad than anything. A lot of political hay was being made over a very serious issue.

[Peikko 1,575]

If its as simple and telling people "you need a living will" then it wouldn't be in the bill. ANd what does it have to do with being a partner with God? Doesn't God decide who lives or dies according to Obama?

Joseph -

Another of my observations from my time in the law was that many people don't deal with end-of-life matters until that end is very nearly at hand. I cannot tell you the number of times we journeyed to local hospitals and nursing homes to take documents to folks who didn't want prolonged treatment.

I often wished the hospital or facility could have been involved in some manner regards counseling the patient. Instead some decisions were being made in a time of high emotion for the family, or more sinisterly by family members who did not have the patients best interest at hand.

I really felt/feel that the 'death panel' hue and cry was more sad than anything. A lot of political hay was being made over a very serious issue.

Indeed. Instead of this very serious issue getting the attention it deserves it's been spun so far off course it makes you puke.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Rebecca, you just want to kill old hard working republicans so you have more money left over in entitlement programs for your shiftless democrats on welfare. At least be honest!

[SMOKE 1,426]

Joseph hasn't actually read the bill himself. He's just comfortable parroting the Right Wing propaganda because what's most important to him is to see Obama fail...so his Republicans can come storming back into Washington in 2010 and set things right once and for all.

you haven't read it either. actually you can't read it. pelosi & reid don't want anyone to read it.....i wonder why.

You can't read?

The Senate’s Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Draft

HR3200

i was talking about the bill they're trying to push thru now. but, i think you knew that.

Edited October 7, 2009 by SMOKE

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Wait. So if a judge says he's interpreting a law you call it judicial activism, but it's okay for you, an everyday citizen to act on a higher authority than a judge in interpreting legal documentation? How many years of Law have you studied?

Nice copout Guano. I thought you were above that.

Exposing the blatant hypocrisy of Right Wingers when it comes to interpreting law is no copout. It's calling a spade a spade. The bill will become law if it passes. Will it then be off limits for judicial interpretation? At least show some consistency of principals, Joseph.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Is end of life counseling in the bill or not? Just tell the truth. Don't dodge the issue.

Yes, it is. It is a serivce that Medicare would pay for if the patient chooses to receive it. As I quoted from factcheck.org above, suggesting that the bill will require end of life counseling equates to suggesting that Medicare requires that the elderly be fitted with prosthetic limbs seeing that Medicare is paying for those as well. Or that the elderly are required to receive bypass surgery, cancer treatments and the like since Medicare pays for those as well. The truth, however, is that these are services available to Medicare recipients. If you don't want the service, nobody forces you to get it. That's what's in the bill. That's the truth.

Just as the public option is "just another option" even though there is a $1900 fine for not buying into it if you have no insurance. Sure, you don't have to have it, but we'll take 1900 bucks from you, and then make you get it, or throw you in jail.

Just as false as your earlier claim on the death panels. No draft calls for any fine for anyone not buying the public option. What the drafts do call for is a fine for people trying to snatch a free ride not buying any health insurance coverage at all - leaving the public at large exposed to the cost of their treatment in the event they need it and can't afford it. If you had paid any attention to the debate at all, you would have noticed that the insurance mandate is part of the Baucus bill even though that draft happens to lack a public option entirely. If you were right in your claim, this would be impossible since you obviously cannot levy a fine against people not buying that which does not exist.

[rebeccajo 14]

Rebecca, you just want to kill old hard working republicans so you have more money left over in entitlement programs for your shiftless democrats on welfare. At least be honest!

The hardworking with a big enough estate to be taxed had already sussed out how to avoid death taxes. Thus their end-of-life documents were also already taken care of.

Edited October 7, 2009 by rebeccajo